in addition to signing old sox, John Valentin, the astros are further attempting to lure Roger..read on
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2342789

Rogee...just say no...go out on top. :elvis




edit thread title

I don't know if he's going to be an Astro or not, but I think he has 1 more good year in him. He probably should stay retired, but I don't think 1 more year will hurt him!

Yankee great Roger Clemens...hahahahaha

If true, its gotta hurt mister Boss....and make Yankee fans hate the guy almost as much as Red Sox fans.

Its really great for two reasons:
1- as a hater of lardass for many years, I am encouraged to see my anger with him remains justified. He is a ruthless opportunist who motivates by greed. He is a lier and a con man, nothing more.
2- The allure of Yankee pinstripes drying up pretty fast isn't it. That what a couple of non championship seasons will do for that garbage theory.

Remember all the media hype about how EVERYBODY wants to be part of the Yankees and the great tradition and blah blah blah.

Pettitte took eight million less to leave. Clemens retired in order to leave. And Schilling, who could have pushed for a Yankee trade, didn't.

Aura and Mystique have left the Bronx.

rsb

espn radio said there will be a press conference around 4 today to announce a 1 year 5 million dollar deal

This further cements Roger as a gutless mercenary who switches teams in a self-centered quest for, well, whatever's best for Roger (and millions of dollars of course). For a HOFer, he's such a baseball whore.

As for Houston, rock on, 'Stros. I like the Houston franchise, and wish them nothing but success. Good for them.

-MALC

EDIT: Deleted info that was answered by information provided by other posters in subsequent posts.

ABC News has just reported the one year deal.

Wonder how satan....I mean....Stienbrenner is taking the news?

rsb

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1706367

That is the best news I have heard all day!! That is awesome if true, and will leave me with countless hours of taunting MFY fans at work today!

Ya know, I really hope he does sign. I can't wait to see him have to step up to the plate and face another teams pitcher. Let's see how he take's some of his own medicine.

Now come on guys. Do not be so hard on Roger. He always wanted to play for Jimy. Besides I would like to see how he does in the National League, and whether he is pushing the envelope on how well he can pitch :smoke

Seems an appropriate time to quote our friend Mr. Simmons:

"Can you remember any other superstar athlete squandering his emotional connection to every possible city?....And yet Clemens drifts along, the hired hitman, the superstar who sold out his fans for a few extra bucks. Instead of a team logo, the cap on his Hall of Fame statue should simply feature a dollar sign."


No quote was ever so true as the 'his cap should feature a dollar sign'.

I used to like the 'Stros, but it just got a lot tougher to root for them now.

Is Houston closer to Katy than Toronto?

I don't think Roger is hated by anyone. He led us to the postseason in 86, 88 and 90. He led the BlueJays back to respectibility. And he was the Yankees best pitcher during thier incredible run of titles in the mid to late 90's. Now he returns to Texas as the man.

What is not to like?

Lugo

all I have to say about Roger screwing over George is....ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Georgie lost his 2 best pitchers to the Astros this is just too perfect. George is making plans to take away Rogers hummer now how can Roger justify going into the hall as a MFY he didnt even finish his career with them. But otherwise Houston has a great rotation it will be great to see them make the playoffs then do their annual 1st round choke.

Rather than go into the reasons I will direct you to go here and see them explained far better than I can have done it.

Why Clemens is the Anit-Christ

And yes, he is most definetely hated by a a lot of Red Sox fans.

"Is Houston closer to Katy than Toronto?"

I have always been perplexed by the jokes made about Roger saying that he "wanted to pitch closer to home" and then signing with Toronto. The media made him out to be geographically challenged, but one problem: Toronto IS closer to Katy, TX than Boston - by nearly 300 miles. Not exactly walking distance, but still closer...

When he finally makes it to Cooperstown, they better put a $ on his cap.

At least the Sox don't have to face him unless they meet in late October

I can't wait to see Roger trying to intimidate NL batters now that he has to bat. I can't see him hitting anyone in the head (like he did to Millar) this season. He's still a solid pitcher, but I have to wonder if age and the loss of the intimidation factor will make him less effective. I also can't wait to see him batting... it seems to me that the Mets still owe him a few high, hard ones.

Who cares. I thought the guy went out the best way a pitcher that is guaranteed a spot in the hall of fame could. Now he is going to be nothing but a pitcher who gets yanked in the middle of the fifth inning because he is strugling. And i am not saying that he can't still go 7 innings on a regular basis, but his manager, as we all know as Boston fans, has no clue what he is doing when it comes to managing your pitchers during a game. I wish he would have just stayed away and left the game sitting on top like he did. Oh well, at least he screwed over George. Hehe.

If I said I was surprised I'd be lying- I actually hope he does really well to get under Steinbrenner's skin. Between them, I hate Stein-ey more. But man, Clemens...I mean, is this surprising to anyone?

clemens cracks me up. there will be two sides--one that says clemens is such a competitor he cant stop competing an dthe other that says his opportunistic jerk. houston has a nasty staff though. wow. and jimy is alright (i'd like to see you manage a staff where castillo is your #3) and should handle clemens just fine.

Well at least Jimy finally gets to see what he can do with Clemens on his staff.
As we re-call ole Rog jumped ship in Boston just a few weeks after Jimy was hired.

rsb

Worst thing about FatBoy's Lies and the Lying Liar Who Tells Them is that it undermines all the "farewell" gestures from fans and clubs. I distinctly remember how much Fatty didn't get it when Fenway was on its feet for him after his last regular season game there. He was frigging oblivous before Zimmer told him to get out and make a curtain call. His problem was with one guy and he took it out on all of Boston. Boston, on the other hand, was grown up enough to offer him so respect... it was like buying a guy a beer after you get in a fight with him. But the farewell gesture that's most telling is when Torre let Fatso manage the last game of the regular season.

I think that FatBoy is trying to weasel his way into a coaching/managing career. I've heard that he'll be getting a Nolan-Ryan type deal where he only pitches home games for the Astros, sort of a Sixth Man spot. Sounds to me like he thinks he'll be able to develop a relationship with Houston in hopes of being a pitching/bench coach and eventually, manager. Yet, since he kissed the Babe's statue all the time, maybe some of the Babe's bad luck with making the same move (Playing one year for the Boston Braves in hopes of managing them) will rub off on LardMan.

I never hated the guy before the last regular season game scene at Fenway.

Do you really see Clemens as a manager? I'm not sure. I think he's like Jordan and couldnt deal with medicority well. Would be interesting though.

This left me rolling in the aisles! Roger stop posting on Sox message boards! Youre an astro now!



I hadnt even thought of this. This is like a wet dream come true! I cant wait to see him pitch in Shea, or maybe hell request not to, like he did with the MFY! What a ****ing coward



We can only pray that he pitches only at home. As soon as I heard this rumour visions of Clemens looking over his shoulder at balls flying out of minute maid park were dancing in my head. Thanks for finally delivering Roger! You couldnt give me a championship and you left for our most hated rival, and you spit in our faces every chance you got, but you did what I always suspected you were gonna do, be the epitome of a selfish athlete who cant walk away from a game that has passed him by, and in the process will hopelessly embaress yourself in front of your friends and family. It could only be better if you come back for the MFY next year and post an even higher ERA than the over 5 gem youre guaranteed to post this year.

And shouldnt this thread be called Return of the Fatboy: Lying Liar and the Lies he tells.

I was just thinking about Mike Piazza holding down one finger, and pointing to his left.

It makes me sick, that this guy has no loyalty to anyone but Ben Franklin and his buddy Andy.

The boss can't be to happy. i'll drink to that!

ON a Pr level the boss cant be happy, but lets face it, Kevin Brown is better than Roger, and Vasquez is better than Pettite. If MFY fans and the Boss werent so stupid and enamored with name power than the Yankees would be celebrating.

Brown may be better than Clemens, but his health is almost always a question mark. Vasquez on paper is better than Pettite, but I wanna see if he can perform at that level in a big market. Hopefully Vasquez is unable to handle all of the scrutiny and distractions that come with playing in NY.

You can also look at this issue in another way, I'm sure the MFY would rather have Clemens in the rotation instead of Lieber or Contreras.

I don't think there was every a statement on a message board I disagreed with more. I hate Roger Clemens (the baseball player at least) and I wish him nothing but a high ERA in the National League. I am looking forward to his starts against the Mets, who I assure you still remember him knocking out Mike Piazza with a concussion-inducing fastball to the brain. For an encore, in a classic emotional meltdown, he threw a jagged, broken bat at Piazza in the World Series.

You may ask why I dislike Roger so. And why do thousands upon thousands of Red Sox fans feel similar hatred. And I'm going to tell you.

First of all, I cannot take away from Roger the fact that he's a Hall of Fame pitcher and he has picked up 310 career victories and is third all-time in strikeouts. No one can say he's not a talented and great pitcher.

However, the man has no character. The Rocket won one game for the Red Sox in 5 post season series. He asked out of game 6 of the 1986 World Series, leaving with a 3-2 lead after 7 innings. He imploded in the second inning of his start in the 1990 playoffs, ejected by home plate umpire Terry Cooney. He held out for more money on 2 occasions. Even though the Red Sox had made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball, and even though he was 10-13 in 1996 and coming off a 40-39 record over the previous 4 seasons, an overweight and out of shape Clemens bolted to sign with the Blue Jays. The Red Sox made him a very reasonable offer, but he said he wanted to play closer to home. So he went north of the border to Toronto. Roger was never known for telling the truth, or as a leader in the honesty and truth departments.

He left for Toronto also claiming he wanted to be on a championship team. Interesting that the Yankees won it in 1996, but he didn't choose to go there. Why? They didn't offer him the last penny like Toronto did. But after 2 years on the Jays, he turned his back on them, the organization that once again made him the highest paid pitcher in the game. He exercised a "handshake" agreement and forced a trade to the World Champion Yankees.

Despite the fact that Clemens had demanded the trade, he threatened the Yankees to exercise a provision in the collective bargaining agreement to demand a trade as a veteran player traded in the midst of a long-term deal unless the Yanks ponied up even more money. Steinbrenner obliged him by bestowing an additional $10.3 million on top of his already bloated contract, once again making him the highest paid pitcher in baseball.

Now, after making the rounds all year with a supposed curtain call for the Yanks in 2003, he pulls an about-face and becomes the third member of the Yankees' 2003 rotation to give George the finger. Yes, Clemens will return in 2004, and will pitch for the Astros, without even giving the Yanks the opportunity to retain him. And because they thought he was retired, they didn't offer him arbitration, so the Astros don't have to forfeit draft picks for his signing. The Rocket owed the Yankees more; they carried him to 2 rings.

The Yankee fans seem surprised. We tried to tell them; they wouldn't listen. For Red Sox fans, this was not only not surprising, it was entirely predictable. Roger broke his word (again). I only wonder if he has enough years left in his arm to screw the Astros like he has every other team he's ever played for.

Nothing against any of you personally, but I think a lot of the posts here that are anti-Roger are bitter and immature rants. A few thoughts:

Roger is greedy and motivated by the $ - look in the mirror, perhaps - if you work for millionaires/billionaires, and can make millions, aren't you going to try to get those millions rather than letting the owners pocket it? Personally, I'll admit it: while I enjoy my work, I do it for the money, and I try to make as much as I can. Guess I'm greedy.

Roger was terrible is last 4 years - untrue - actually pitched as well as in some of his "good" years. I don't have the time right now, but later I'll dig up some of the stats that bear that out. Run support (well, lack thereof) and a bad bullpen killed his W-L (one year, the Sox scored fewer than 2 runs in every loss but 1, or something like that)

His "farewell" tour was tainted. Perhaps, but no more so than that of every other athlete who has "un-retired." Additionally, throughout the year, and into the offseason, there was speculation that he would not actually quit, so it's not as if this is shocking.

Clemens was out of shape while with the Sox - simply untrue. The guy has been a workhorse throughout his career, on and off the mound. His "troubles" had nothing to do with conditioning. I'd love to see some evidence of his lack of conditioning during that time.

Oh, and perhaps my favorite now is that Clemens is some sort of villain for throwing inside and hitting batters. Let me lead off by saying that I love pitchers like Clemens - and Pedro - who won't let armor-clad batters set up and dive over the plate. Any of you who criticize Roger for this better criticize Pedro as well. And then I'd still say you're flat-out wrong.

That's all I've got time for now, except to say that I wish Roger the best of luck with the Astros, even if for no other reason to stick it to the Yanks and to continue to show Duquette just what a moron he was.

I can look in the mirro and honestly say that if I were a proffessional athlete who played in a city for years and enjoyed the support of one of the most loyal fanbases around I would not spit on them and go to their most hated rival.


Since you dont have time to look up the numbers, Ill do it for you, and tell me if the run support created his high ERAs.
1993
4.46 ERA
1994 (in which he did not play the whole season)
2.85
1995 (in which he did not play the whole season)
4.18
1996
3.63

And he still wanted superstar money! Looks like revisionist histroy has gotten to you my friend!


Doesnt change the fact that he lied, just because MJ did it doesnt make it right.


Well Pedro had the nuts to do it in the national league, lets see if Roger does the same. And Pedro never threw a bat at a batter and then refused to pitch agaisnt the players team because he would have to come to bat.

Forget roger, and Duquette made the smart move, I mean we replaced him with Pedro, who is a much better pitcher than Roger ever was. And all the stats show that Roger was just gonna stay fat if we resigned him to an equally fat contract extension.

Roger's hat for Cooperstown

I think Nufced pretty much said it all.

OK - re. loyalty, I propose that it isn't unreasonable for a player to "turn his back" on the fans by leaving if his employers don't offer reasonable comp AND respect. comments like "twilight years" by your boss aren't endearing. (Similarly, if Nomar leaves this year despite a reasonable contract offer, I wouldn;t necessarily blame him - front office has made it's bed). oh, and I've never considered the Jays our most hated rivals.

re. performance: 1994 - 2.85 ERA, ERA+ of 177
1995 - 10 wins, 5 losses. 4.18 ERA, ERA+ of 115
1996 - 3.63 ERA, ERA+ of 142

average ERA+ of around 140.

In 1994, when Clemens was just 9-7 despite a 2.85 ERA, the Sox managed just 15 runs in his seven defeats, scoring more than one run just once in those losses.
Despite failing to reach double figures in wins, Clemens had the lowest hit-per-inning ratio in the league and finished second in the AL in strikeouts and ERA.

In 1996, meanwhile, Clemens had seven leads blown by the bullpen. How different would Duquette's evaluation have been if Clemens had finished, say 16-11 instead of 10-13, especially when Clemens was 6-2 with a 2.08 ERA -- including another 20-strikeout, no-walk gem -- in his final 10 starts.

re. "retirement" - big difference b/t lying and changing your mind. neither of us knows the truth, but I beleive he intended to retire and stay with his family. and, I believe that if Pettitte hadn't gone to Houston, there's NO way Roger returns. If you want to side with the Yankee conspiracy theorists that this was planned all along, you've got the right to do so, and you may be correct.

re. the rest, no, I won't forget Roger, b/c no, Pedro isn't better than Roger ever was, and Roger was the last/only great pitcher our organization has produced in my lifetime. and the stats show that Duquette was wrong. Speculate all you want about what may have happened, but the bottom line is that Clemens been a great pitcher since leaving the Sox.

(By the way, as a common sense test: most Yankees fans are echoing similar sentiments right now about Roger being overrated, disloyal, cowardly, whatever - take a look at the company you're keeping - I don't think that's a group you want to be in agreement with.)

They not happy at Roger at nyyfans.com

WHOA, hold up buddy, all statistical data shows he was, if you have some to back up your argument bring it, but Ive done extensive research on the subject, and there is zero credence to the idea that Roger was ever better thane Pedro.


I would blame him, we offered him 4 years 60, his curretn worth if not more and he turned it down. His fault, not ours. Maybe youre still pissed we didnt hold onto Mo Vaughn?


Yeah but he forced the trade to the Yankees.


So youre just gonna leave out 1993, one of his only 2 full season of his last four with us, which also happens to conveniently be a bad one? Im not trying to sya he was terrible, he just wasnt the one of the top 3 pitchers in the game, which is what his asking price was.


He was great for Toronto and good for the Yankees, he hasnt been great for the complete stretch though. SPECULATE all you want but the bottom line is that all indicators, conditioning, statistics, and attitude, showed a pitcher on the decline.


I dont accept guilty by association fallacies as valid arguments.

You know, I think our friend Brian Cashman needs a little hug. He's been shut out from the offseason by Steinbrenner, not allowed to go to Winter Meetings, and now has to say good words about Clemens and Wells, who both very much stabbed him and the Yankee organization in the back.

Every time I see a Cashman quote, I imagine him weeping in the corner of his office. And sniffling.

OUCH

http://www.nyyfans.com/article/8095/



Roger Clemens should be barred from the HoF
Frauds need not apply

By Jim Frasch
NYYFans.com Staff Writer
January 12, 2004


Looks like NY was just another stop on the Rocket trip to fraudville for Roger Clemens. ESPN is reporting that Roger will be announcing an agreement to play for the Houston Astros in 2004.

Being elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame is based upon the following:

"Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played."

As seen in Boston and NY, Roger lacks both character and integrity. If Charlie Hustle isn't in the Hall, neither should Roger...if he ever retires.


Jim is the creator and webmaster of NYYFans.com, and can be reached at jim(at)nyyfans.com.

Just take a look at pictures of Roger during the forgettable 4 years preceding his jumping ship. He had a protruding gut and three chins. It was only after re-dedicating himself to physical fitness that he re-discovered his dominant stuff.

Here is something the statistics don't necessarily tell you at first glance. Roger almost NEVER came up big for the Red Sox in the biggest games. FIVE post-season series, and a total of ONE win.

The most telling thing about Roger is this. Despite 310 victories to date and Hall of Fame career numbers, Roger has managed to become disliked in every city he's ever played in. Nowhere will you find another Hall of Famer who is not beloved by the fans of at least one or two teams he's played for.

Clemens has little character, little ability to tell the truth, and it's always been all about HIM. The latest episode with him unretiring is par for the Clemens course. You can call me immature, and call my rants childish. Perhaps they are, I won't even dispute it. But, everything I have said is true. I personally think Clemens is the one who has been a childish, spoiled brat during his career. I relish the three thrashings the Red Sox gave him while he was with the Yankees: Game 3 of the 1999 ALCS when the Sox knocked the crap out of him and he left in humiliation in the fourth inning at Fenway; 2003 in Yankee Stadium as he was going for win #300; and game 7 of the 2003 ALCS as the Red Sox pounded Clemens out of the game in the 4th inning to walk off in shame in the biggest game of his career before Grady's incompetence took a sure loss off his bloated shoulders.

I am looking forward to his at bats in the NL. Many teams have a score to settle, and I don't think the Rocket will be digging in to too many batter's boxes.

Pedro v. Clemens: maybe the issue is we need to define what we're measuring. Pedro at his best was better than Roger at his best. However, Clemens had years where he was better than ears that Pedro had, and Clemens has proven to be durable in performing at high levels over a longer career than Pedro has. Pedro may one day equal that, but he hasn't yet.

Re. Nomar, that contract offer was in the spring, and it wasn;t clear then what the market was - but it isn;t unreasonable for him to want as much as or more than Jeter gets. (And I would have loved for Mo to have stayed, at a fair price. Duquette wouldn;t have let that happen, either, btw. I mean, Offerman was out there to be had!)

re. leaving 1993 - not out of "convenience," so don't give me that attitude. these were the years I found first, w/o digging much. I won't claim to know if he was one of the 3 best pitchers over that timeframe. I don't have that info on hand. But I do feel safe saying that he was one of the three best in the decade leading up to his departure as well as in the 2-3 years following it. His performance w/the Jays justified a premium comp pkg.

Not great for the entire stretch - you got me there - I overreached - only good io great. Not shocking given his age, but I do stand corrected.

"SPECULATE all you want but the bottom line is that all indicators, conditioning, statistics, and attitude, showed a pitcher on the decline." Well, get rid of the speculation - all indicators were wrong.

"I dont accept guilty by association fallacies as valid arguments." The statement was kidding (mostly). But I admire such principle. Please let me know more about what you do and do not accept as valid arguments.

"..little ability to tell the truth..."? that is an incredible claim - I can't imagine that you mean it.

Please post some of those pictures. I watched a lot of games during that time, just as I did before it and after it, and I never had concern about his conditioning.

Roger almost never came up big for Sox in big games? Well, first off, how often were the Sox evenly matched, and who was he going against? So a far better As team with Dave Stewart starting got the best of him? What shame. And, btw, again, as much as I like Pedro, the same argument is made against him.

Re. fans, Yanks fans liked him until he signed with the 'stros. and many sox fans still like him. no idea re the Jays.

Will McDonough said it best 7 years ago and nothing has changed

December 14, 1996

DOUBLE TALK . . . THEN DOUBLE CROSS


Author: Will McDonough, Globe Staff

Who said this?

"I would only leave Boston to go back to Houston to be closer to my family.

"I could never come back and pitch against the Red Sox, so it would have to be in the other league."

"I have all the nice things in life because of the fact that Mr. [John] Harrington took care of me. I don't need a lot of money."

Answer: Roger (The Dodger) Clemens. The Texas Con Man.

What came out of Roger Clemens' arm the first seven years of his career in Boston was great. What came out of his mouth the last four has been garbage. The words were never as straight as his fastball.

Clemens started his career in Boston weighing 206 pounds. Two years ago, he weighed in at 247. But of course, Roger told us he wasn't out of shape. The weight gain had been caused by lifting weights. He looked puffy because of medication he was taking. And this, of course, had nothing to do with his fastball disappearing for most of those four years -- right after he signed a fat $21 million contract with the Red Sox -- until the heater magically reappeared the last month of this past season, when he was on the cusp of free agency. As I wrote before, no one who works out in the prime of his career and watches his diet puts on 40 pounds over 10 years while playing to a single-digit handicap in golf. Impossible.

In 1995, The Dodger told us he would love to see the Red Sox win the World Series so he could retire. In 1996, he said he needed a four-year contract so he could have security for his family.

The morning after Clemens struck out 20 Detroit Tigers and was overpowering, I walked in to my sports editor, Don Skwar, and his assistant, Joe Sullivan, and told them this: "Mark it down on this day. Roger Clemens is out of here."

This is what flashed through my mind when I saw an emotional Clemens being interviewed right after the game. Why is the guy crying? Players don't cry after they hit four home runs in a game, or throw a no-hitter, or score six touchdowns. They cry when they win an Olympic gold medal. The world championship in a sport. And those emotions pour out more from the pressure of a long haul, whether it has been through weeks in a playoff grinder like the NBA or NHL, or years of training for the Olympics.

It is not normal to slobber all over the place after striking out 20 batters in a meaningless game late in the season against a terrible team.

To me, that was The Dodger's statement to the baseball world that "I can still throw as hard as ever, baby, when I want to, and I'm a free agent in the next couple of months. Bring the cash."

Even though they don't think so, this is an enormous break for the Red Sox. They were stupidly ready to give this guy millions out of loyalty, even though he had none for them. Why pay all that money for a 10-game winner? Go out and give one-third of it to someone who can win 10 games and you get what Clemens has given you the past four seasons: an average of 10 wins. His record was 40-39 over that span. Use the money you saved to get players who will perform to the standards of their co ntract. Clemens averaged $5 million a season the last four years here, or $500,000 per win.

His last week here was a farce. He started complaining about his contract to the media when the Sox still had an outside chance at a playoff spot, said he might not pitch the last day of the season and took down his name plate from his locker, which sends no message other than "I'm out of here."

The Red Sox thought they might be getting stung by Roger in the final week of the season with the name plate removal and the hemming and hawing about pitching the finale.

They knew they were getting the shaft last week when they found out that the Yankees, Indians and Blue Jays all had visits with Clemens in Boston Globe
December 14, 1996

DOUBLE TALK . . . THEN DOUBLE CROSS

Author: Will McDonough, Globe Staff
Houston. However, when Harrington asked to visit, his agents sent back word: Don't bother. Just fax your best offer. This was Clemens' way of thanking Harrington for taking such good care of him.

You can bet that all through spring training and next season, Clemens will spoon out various reasons about why he left Boston. None will be the truth. Just like the statements at the top of this column. The truth is, he left for the money. Roger has always been about money, and now there is no Dodging that.

THE TWO SIDES OF CLEMENS ONE THING IS STILL MISSING FROM REPERTOIRE -- HONESTY


Author: Will McDonough, Globe Staff

Edition: Third
Section: Sports
Page: G1

You can put him in a new suit and get him a haircut, but when he opens his mouth, Roger Clemens is still the Texas Con Man.

Roger, by his own humble admission on his return to Boston, did "great things" here, and of course, never did anything wrong. When asked about his past four years in a Red Sox uniform, when he compiled a 40-39 record, he blamed it on his defense. The fact that in the decade after he dazzled baseball in 1986, he ballooned more than 30 pounds, from 206 to almost 250, had nothing to do with it. It was his defense. Guys were worrying about going good at the plate, not concentrating on playin g good defense behind him

Now that he has a good defense in Toronto, he is 13-3. Of course, there was no explanation for how his fastball suddenly returned in the last couple of weeks while he was heading toward free agency last September.

In his first half-dozen years with Boston, the TCM consistently threw the ball in the mid-90-mile-per-hour range. Then for some unexplained reason, he started sliding toward 85, until magically, in September, the heater came back, as indicated when he stuck out 20 Detroit Tigers. Of course, the fact that Toronto had scouts following him the last month of the season to see if he had anything left had nothing to do with the fastball returning.

That's what Roger would like you to think. He has no faults. Just ask him. Can you remember one time in his career here when he said he did anything wrong? That he simply stunk some night when he got hit hard? Or gave the other team credit when he did get hit? No. There was always some other factor. The umpires were squeezing him. His mechanics were bad. His back was sore. He didn't like the general manager. Even though everyone around him in the Red Sox organization said he was overweight, he said he wasn't. He just looked fat, he said, because of the side effects of the anti-inflammatories he was taking. Or he got big because he was lifting so much weight, reflecting his self-described "great work ethic."

A few weeks back when the Red Sox were in Toronto, Clemens was asked about the hitting of Reggie Jefferson. Roger said he liked Jefferson because when Roger stayed around the park for two hours after a game lifting weights, Jefferson would often be there with him. I asked someone who spent the past half-dozen years in the Sox clubhouse about this, and his response was: "The first thing Roger went for after a game was the food table."

Opening the All-Star telecast Tuesday night, one of the announcers offered that Clemens was unhappy in Toronto because the Blue Jays weren't winning and might ask to be traded. Roger, you see, said he was going to Toronto to be with a winner. It had nothing to do with the fact that the Blue Jays were giving him a $9 million bonus, which no one else bidding for his services would do. The Yankees were after him, offering less and coming off a world championship. Roger didn't opt for New York, even though it has a much better chance of winning than Toronto. Of course, it had nothing to do with the size of the Toronto bonus. Now he offered that he was unhappy with some of his present mates in Toronto because he expected more of them and they weren't producing.

Some of them probably wished that Roger, team player that he is, stayed with them at the Sheraton Boston rather than on the Cape playing golf the last couple of days.

was he at 247 in season? I highly doubt that. and going fom 206 when you're a 21 year old to 230-240, which I think is where clemens has supposedly been for years now, isn't shocking - he's a 6'4" power pitcher. he should weigh much more than 206. that's silly.

re. the statements, I still say that things change. were I in the public eye, I'm sure that statements I made years ago would no longer be valid. people change, situations change. look at the divorce rate.

look, I'm not going to change your mind, your not going to change mine. I don't expect "loyalty" from players b/c they don't get it from the fans or from management. I expect only that players give their best when in uniform, and that's what I believe Roger did in Boston. You obviously disagree. So be it. But to me, he pitched 10 great years for the Sox, and I appreciate having had the opportunity to watch it.

I can't wait to hear the announcer describing the replay, "You can see Piazza sets up inside... ".

I would think this solidifies Clemens wearing a hat on his HOF plaque now. If he had retired straight from the Yankees, he might have had a justification for going in as a - the WS rings, reaching 3,000/300, etc. But now, the MFYs are only a single stop on his free agent gravy train post-Boston.

Sorry, Rog, you just screwed yourself. The Yanks look like idiots, and Roger's going into the HOF as a Sox.

Oh yeah, and the Pats are the best team in football.

Rock on.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=nya

Statement from George M. Steinbrenner


"Roger Clemens was a great warrior for the Yankees - a teacher and a leader. He told the world he was retiring and we had no choice but to believe him."

Here's a link to another old story that someone might like to retract now:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...00p-84443c.html

Some highlights (story written in NY Daily News on June 17, 2003):
Clemens plans to retire after this season, which means he would be eligible for the 2009 induction ceremony - a ceremony he says he would boycott unless he enters the Hall as a Yankee.

Cooperstown's rules are quite clear: the entirety of a player's career must be considered when determining what cap will be featured on an inductee's plaque.

Clemens said over the weekend he wants to be inducted into the Hall of Fame as a Yankee, but Baseball Hall of Fame officials have the final say, and if they base their decision strictly on the numbers, the Rocket will be wearing a Boston cap when he arrives in Cooperstown.


Is it possible that instead of having teams begging to be the logo on the HOF cap that they will be passing at that opprotunity because of his two-faced behavior?

that may be the shortest press release I've ever read.

I can't wait to check out nyyfans.com