Okay...

It's TIME!

Here's a place to discuss Hot Stove Happenings, Wishful Thinking, Rumors, Signings, and Rumors of Signings....

If a topic or player gets "really hot", feel free to start a specific thread in "Red Sox - On the Field" or "Around the Majors", as appropriate.

Anni

The Yankees have looked at acquiring Alfonso Soriano from the Rangers for Javier Vazquez in order to use him in a Randy Johnson deal. Maybe this would work if the Diamondbacks prefer Soriano to Vazquez. As is, we're not sure they would. The Diamondbacks seem to really like the idea of using Alex Cintron at second and Soriano isn't interested in moving to the outfield.

- Rotoworld

If this post seems misplaced I apologize ahead of time but I can't find a thread that seems to fit...now on with my post.


Well I have been following this Forum as a whole now for about a year and have read a good deal of the posts within. I am encouraged by the level of "fandom" that the Militia of RSN displays. I have been a member of RSN for about 30 plus years that originated with the Carlton Fisk game winning homer. What a glorious moment for a 6 year old be to witness to. I say this only to prove my loyalty and longevity to the nation as a quiet observer.

Well today I can no longer be quiet. I am amazed by hostile nature of this thread. I feel, without intentionally jumping on a soapbox that, RSN should step back and continue to bask in the GLOW OF THE WORLD SERIES victory. The one thing that I feel and maybe I'm wrong but sense is that RSN still feels it knows best how to run this team. In the past it seemed that Red Sox teams were run by a bunch of imcompetent idiots. Based on the majority, as it seems, of the posts on this board and many like it. If I were an alien coming to this planet for the first time reading these post, assuming I could speak english and read the slang abbreviations...pause... I'd like to thank the poster last year who made the abbreviations known to the less informed MFY, SiaS etc, I would think that those in charge were intentionally screwing things up.

Anyway, my point is that all of the regimes that have ruled the Red Sox club have always done so "In My Honest Opinion" (abbreviation not approved at this time) with the best of intentions and I believe, as naive as it may seem, have made choices that they "thought" were in the best interest of the club as a whole at that specific time. This brings me to my ULTIMATE point. While I might question the decisions made by the current and past regimes from a MICROSCOPIC level, I think they, past /presentl regimes, make decisions from a MACROSCOPIC level. Most of RSN looks at a specific event or decision and then drill down on it. Terry Francona bashing is the most recent example. Why did he bunt here, how come this guy is batting third, etc. RSN is constantly playing armchair Manager, GM, Pitching coach etc questioning every move. Duquette is another great example of bashing. The guy was kind of a turd socially but he made some great moves. Pedro, Varitek, Lowe, Ramirez and Sling Blade (just kidding Bichette was a joke). We all make good and bad decisions. Think about it, if ownership hadn't traded Schilling and Anderson to Baltimore for Boddicker we would never have gotten to see the Bloody Sock pitch in the WS? Did you read that...Curt Schilling pitched for the Red Sox in the WS and WON Get my point? See how sweet that move ultimately turned out? Heck, If Bags was still 1b for us we may never have gotten MO Vaugh, he did win the MVP or have you forgotten? Better yet, David Ortiz. Would you honestly rather have Bags or Ortiz?

I am sure, no, I know that all of my words are open to criticism, this is a RSN board after all. I just hope that the intent of what I am saying is understood. I know this post does belong here specifically but I don't have the ability to create new one. It is all speculation and wishful thinking and it is good.

PS I trust the Trinity to do what is best for the Sox of today and tomorrow. I can't wait to see what they have in their bag of tricks. Whatever it is, will be All Right By Me. If they screw up, then I'll call mulligan and wait for the next move.

"Gently I step down from my soapbox an await the onslaught"

there's 2 posts on this thread, where's the "Hostile Nature?"

Anyways, wrong thread, buddy

I need a drink after reading giarcc's post.

Which is not a bad thing, methinks...

Just wanted to thank you Ani for starting this thread. All of the threads popping up on the board about rumors and hot stove material were beginning to get confusing. This gives us one place to go for all the rumors and will keep the board a lot cleaner. Plus maybe I am just lazy but I prefer to have most of my hot stove information come in one thread instead of searching through 25 threads for it.

Did the Sox re-sign Mark Bellhorn for three years or not? BDD had it up and now it's not anymore... I think we can do a lot better than Bellhorn, so I hope it's not.
Thanks.

Applause for this finally happening. My only suggestion would be that anytime a particular, specific transaction is finalized....it merits an individual thread. Meaning if the Sox re-sign Pedro...or sign Pavano. Give them a thread other than this one.

rsb

The Sox did not resign Bellhorn. As soon as we realized that the information in the thread was incorrect, we took it down.

Anni

Bellhorn is already under contract, isn't he? He's not a free agent.

Buster Olney on ESPn radio says that in "baseball circles" Pavano to Boston is viewed as a mortal lock. He also says unless Boss George goes way overboard money wise....Boston's offer is probably the best he'll get.

rsb

RSB, are you referring to Pavano when you say that Boston's offer is probably the best he'll get? Did Olney mention anything about Pedro and Varitek?

Sorry....i did write like Gammons there didn't I?

He said baseball people believe Pavano is a lock for Boston.

He said he believes the Sox offer to Pedro is the best he'll probably get, unless George really overpays to stick it to the Sox.

I didn't hear Tek mentioned.

rsb

If the Sox don't re-sign Varitek...its doen't appear as though it will be the pr nightmare than some other fan fave exits have been. It appears that while most fans, the front office, the manager and the media all rave about Tek's intangibles and leadership and importance to the team.....they all all recognize that five years, no trade and $55 million is crazy for a 33 year old catcher.

rsb

In some non-Sox news, the Tigers signed Troy Percival to a 2/12 deal. Read about that bitch right here.

I guess they're not planning on UUU coming back anytime soon.

Someone needs to be brought in to fill Williamson's spot.........Chacon might come on the cheap, especially if he's non-tendered.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox17.html

If you had read my post, I was referring to the overall tone of the message board when it comes to "second guessing" and "armchair managing."

So I stuck this post in this thread because I don't have the ability to create a new thread. I also apologized for the misplacement of this post from the outset.

PS...I was in the process of commenting on the usage of the word "buddy" Chillin but I will refrain. Also it's "Anyway" not "anyways," anyways is not a word.

Hostility?

Jeff Horrigan makes the easy case today for dumping Pedro. To put it simply, the references to Pedro as a clown and a diva both have some truth to them. The Red Sox offer to Pedro is already an above-market offer and beyond his worth. Was Pedro so disrespected by that offer that he and Cuza had to go running to "Daddy" looking for "respect"? I would have no problem going into 2005 with a rotation of Schilling, Pavano, Radke, Arroyo, and Wakefield.

Pedro has been one of my favorite players of all time and will remain that way. But maybe it's time to cut the chord.

That was a weird move, coming two weeks after picking up Ugie's option for next year. The Tigers, btw, are likely to become this offseason's Angels: They're on a huge spending spree, which could be good news for Mssrs. Lowe + Kent.

Kurkjian was on ESPN radio and said that the Pedro is looking for a guaranteed 3rd year and the team he thinks will offer that up to Petey is the Angels, although nothing the MFYs do would surprise him, especially with Steinbrenner calling the shots...

I'd be interested to know where the Bellhorn rumor came from. A 3-year deal sounds like something that might have been his agent's starting point in any negotiations that might have been going on. I figure we'll get him for 2 years, assuming he doesn't just get a 1-year arbitration deal.

So far, this is the only hostility I've seen on Royal Rooters.

I think we should hold onto Bellhorn. A two or three-year extension, assuming it's affordable, would be a very good idea. He gets on base and scores a ton of runs as a #2. He's also shown he can hit for power. The only infield position we need to worry about now is SS, and that's getting more difficult to fill.

If the Angels want to offer up a third year to Pedro, let him go. The best thing for Pedro, and maybe the Sox too, is to get him out of the AL East where teams are on to him.

As for Bellhorn, three years for him is too much. With H Ramirez a year away and Pedroia not too far behind, it makes little sense in giving Bellhorn a three-year deal. A two year deal makes more sense. Also, if the Sox are considering Glaus, Mueller could be seeing more time at second and long-term contracts will take away from the flexibility of the roster.

So whos gonna play SS and C on your Fantasy Team?

I'd be more concerned w/ Pokey's .271OPB (identicle teh last 2 years) and his 574OPB combined w/ his injury history...Pokey will not be the starting SS for Boston next year

I have a feeling that Pedro re-signs and the third year will be an option based on IP, appearances, etc that will trigger rather easily. Then again, what the hell do I know?

Please discuss Pedro in the Pedro thread. Keep this thread for generalized rumors and Hot Stove discussion. As soon as there is interest in a specific player, the discussion on that player belongs in Red Sox - On the Field or Around the Majors, as appropriate.

Thanks.

Pokey at short, maybe a guy like Matheny at catcher. I think the Sox should pour their resources into pitching. Epstein is the type of guy who will go after a big time player in a trade (Arod, Schill, etc). They have the guys to trade, why wouldn't they do it? Money wise, they are saving a ton on D-Lowe and Tek, so financially this isn't out of the question.

I think 2004 has proven that Pokey Reese is no longer a starting SS in the majors. His glove may be slick, but with all his injuries and his inability to do anything productive offensively, he isn't someone you want to rely on for 162 games a year. Honestly, I'd rather see Hanley play SS in 2005 than Pokey. Not that I think it can or should happen, but if that were the choice, then that's what I'd go with.

Perhaps different, but who remembers the teams of teh DD era...where there was a revolving door for players...they used over 45 players on the roster one year under Duquette...with such names as Lee Tinsley, Curtis Pride...clearly this ownership group has a far better handle on what they want to do. They have a dollar figure that they will not go over on each player and will not be swayed by emotion...I trust they will field a very good team next year...and I am confident that Pedro will be back

One guy I dont want to see at short is Larkin. I would be afraid of burning Hanley out by rushing him. There are options for defensive shortstops, so I dont think they'd have to rush him, but who knows. The playoffs proved once again that pitching wins, that's what they need to continue to focus on.

IMHO Bellhorn isn't worth anything over 2 years 4-6 mil. Last year was relatively flukey, and I'm not sure we want to be commiting anything more than that to this guy, especially with Handog and the other guy (Pedroia?) waiting in the wings.

Our hole right now is at SS. With Vizquel gone, and no word on O-Cab what are the options? Make a run at Nomar? I don't think so. Larkin's too old, and I'm not a big fan of his.

Bellhorn plays second base. Hanley plays SS. Why would it matter if Bellhorn got a long term deal?

Two words:

Darin Erstad

I'm totally down with Erstad. I love that guy and he is the epitome of a dirt dog. We could platoon him and Millar (not sure what Erstad hits against lefties) and he would be a perfect 2-hole hitter. Would the Angels like to free up cash to run at Beltran and pay for the Unit? Anyhow, let's transfer this out of the Pedro thread. Good call on Erstad.

Erstad won't be a platoon player. When healthy, he's very dangerous.

Darin Erstad has had one- count 'em, one- above average year. I'll pass.

Erstad is one of those guys - like Varitek - who is worth more to the team that he is on than he would be elsewhere (though Mr. Boras is certainly going to test that theory). He's the glue that keeps the Anaheim clubhouse together, and he is a "gamer." But the numbers don't necessarily match the perception.

And, really, I don't even know how much the intangibles match the perception -- with Rex Hudler cheerleading...er...calling the games on TV for the Angels, I almost get the impression that the only thing keeping Erstad from being head groundskeeper, batting 1.000, and curing cancer all by himself, is that all his teammates are doing the exact same thing.

He's an above average glove with occasional pop, a lot of hustle, and a recent history of injuries. He can be a battler at the plate, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he doesn't give away at bats.

He's a nice piece when you've got stars around him, but all you'd really be adding by bringing him to the Sox is salary -- he made a million and a half more last year than Millar and Mientkiewicz combined. He'd be an offensive downgrade from Millar and a defensive downgrade (and at best a minimal offensive upgrade) from Minky.

And I can assure you, he's no Pedro Martinez. Which is where this all began.

I blame Ralpho for this tangent.

Anyway, regarding the cliche "Pitching and defense wins championships". That's exactly what it is, a cliche. You can't win anything with pitching at the expense of offense. Look at the Dodgers of the past few years. Outstanding pitching, mediocre to nothing offense. Even after picking up guys like Finley and Bradley, they still couldn't get out of the first round.

Pitching is obviously very very important. However these notions of "We should spend big to have 4 #1 starters, offense be damned" are inherently flawed. Another cliche: "Good pitching always beats good hitting." Well, if you have two #1 pitchers facing off, and only 1 good offense, which team do you think that advantage swings to.

In short, its about balance. You don't sign offense at the expense of pitching. You don't sign pitching at the great expense of offensive. And you don't load up on defense at the expense of either.



Erstad is an outstanding, tough as nails player. The Sox will never get him, but if they could, they should.


Outstanding? Hardly. One good year, as JtB mentioned, and that was in 2000. Why is he such an upgrade over Millar or Eyechart?

He gets hurt...rumored to be an a******....this doesn't improve the Sox.

Am I in the Pedro thread?

the plan is that Pedoria would move to second base when he is ready, which could be 2-3 years.

Erstad might be "tough as nail" and a gold glove defender, but he has a career OPS+ of 98. He is slightly below average with the bat.

Darin Erstad, since when do we need another 1B/outfielder?

I'm more concerned with 2 starting pitchers , a catcher, a SS, a 2B, a 4th outfielder and a LOOGY.

BTW, Erstad makes $8M in '05 and $8.5M on '06.

And that has what to do with Bellhorn stopping Hanley from playing?

someone at SoSH is posting that Lowe was seen getting off a plane in Detroit...maybe he's going home, maybe he's meeting with the Tigers.

Don't know if anyone's heard anything else, just thought it belonged in the Hot Stove Thread

That's from Friday's Herald. I like the Polanco move. But do I ever want Orlando back. Larkin/(Counsell/Fox) is a downgrade. I am definitely not liking any of these SS scenarios too much.

93+/- days to pitchers and catchers.

Polanco would be fine in that utility role... but he should not be starting.

If Placido Polanco starts for your team, you don't have a good team.

Polanco could start for about every team but 2 or 3. He is excellent. He is better than Cairo. This would be a huge coup to have him as our top reserve. He started for STL before they made the Rolen deal and started for Philly. I'm jacked about this and pray it happens. I could live with a Larkin/Counsell platoon for a year I suppose. Counsell is a gamer and has that WS mojo.

Also regarding Polanco, can anyone else read between the lines on obtaining him? Youks must be being shopped as Polanco would be the primary 2B-3B backup. No way Youks is with us if we have Polanco, especially if we grab another utility guy like Counsell.

The only thing about Polanco would be the cost. He will be an expensive backup. And if he is considered a backup at third does that mean Youk is going to be on the auction block?

I don't see him coming for less than 4 million a year and perhaps more.