The Yankees tonight signed Jared Wright and Tony Womack.
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3228202
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...6-2004Dec7.html
Full Version: Yankees Signings 12/8
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3228202
Strange move for NY, but I guess we should be used to it. Womack had an unusually quality year last year, but there's no way that is going to last. Even if he repeats last season he may not be an upgrade on Cairo, who had a decent year for them on short money.
Strange move for NY, but I guess we should be used to it. Womack had an unusually quality year last year, but there's no way that is going to last. Even if he repeats last season he may not be an upgrade on Cairo, who had a decent year for them on short money.
Have bullpen troubles. Add another pitcher to you pen that has trouble throwing strikes.
QUOTE(Irishguy 87 @ Dec 8 2004, 12:36 AM)
Have bullpen troubles. Add another pitcher to you pen that has trouble throwing strikes.
[right][snapback]238941[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]238941[/snapback][/right]
In the quiet words of the Virgin Mary, come again?
I THINK he's talking about the Felix Rodriguez trade
Wright will either be a steal of a bust at that salary. I'm thinking he's going to be a bust...had a nice year last year, but career wise is nowhere close to being worth that kind of money. A 3 year commitment, too...
I don't understand why Miguel Cairo was so unceremoniously dumped, but Womack gives them speed options off the bench at the very least, now that Lofton is gone. Still, as an everyday starter, color me unconvinced.
I don't understand why Miguel Cairo was so unceremoniously dumped, but Womack gives them speed options off the bench at the very least, now that Lofton is gone. Still, as an everyday starter, color me unconvinced.
QUOTE(MFLetou @ Dec 8 2004, 12:03 AM)
Wright will either be a steal of a bust at that salary. I'm thinking he's going to be a bust...had a nice year last year, but career wise is nowhere close to being worth that kind of money. A 3 year commitment, too...
I don't understand why Miguel Cairo was so unceremoniously dumped, but Womack gives them speed options off the bench at the very least, now that Lofton is gone. Still, as an everyday starter, color me unconvinced.
[right][snapback]238952[/snapback][/right]
I don't understand why Miguel Cairo was so unceremoniously dumped, but Womack gives them speed options off the bench at the very least, now that Lofton is gone. Still, as an everyday starter, color me unconvinced.
[right][snapback]238952[/snapback][/right]
Maybe, but I think each little move they have made seems to improve them a bit more. Slightly better bullpen, quicker, more athletic 2B, another SP. Womack was the starting 2B for the OTHER World Series team, remember? A couple serious shots like RJ, Beltran etc and they will continue to be the favorites in the AL, especially seeing how we have 3 starting pitchers, no SS and no C.
I personally don't know what the Yankees are doing. And I'm happy about what I've seen so far. The Yankees are already the oldest team in baseball, and give Tony Womack a 2 year contract at age 35. Another aging piece in the jigsaw puzzle. Another player who could easily break down. Yes, he has some speed, but he had a career year in 2004 with the Cards, and his past history shows nothing close to a .307 average. The Red Sox picked him off the scrap heap last year and had him throughout the entire 2004 spring training before dumping him to St. Louis for minor league pitcher Matt Duff.
As far a Jaret Wright goes, when you have a rotation that has as many question marks in it as the Yankees, do you really want to sign another pitcher with a history of arm problems to a 3 year contract? Wright's career rebounded in 2004 with the Braves, although he lost both of his playoff starts. However, the man has been plagued by arm injuries and prior to 2004, he hadn't had a good year in some time. For a team with pockets as deep as the Yankees, it's a surprising choice, and I think Wright will be hard-pressed to fill Lieber's shoes. Judging from past performance, there seems to be a decent chance he could be a complete bust in NY.
Mike Mussina, Javy Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright....who's next? El Duque? Lieber? Eric Milton? The Yanks still haven't gotten a left-hander....something tells me trade talks for RJ are going to be resurrected sooner, rather than later.
The Yankee bullpen too is as old as the hills. Gordon, Quantrill, Rivera and Stanton are all going to be 35 or older next year. There's an excellent chance Tino Martinez will be signed to play first base next year at the age of 37. Who knows what to expect from Giambi at 33. Posada is aging, Bernie will be 37 next year, and Sheffield 36. I'm sure there are more free agent signings in the offing, but the Yankees are getting old, and fast.
As far a Jaret Wright goes, when you have a rotation that has as many question marks in it as the Yankees, do you really want to sign another pitcher with a history of arm problems to a 3 year contract? Wright's career rebounded in 2004 with the Braves, although he lost both of his playoff starts. However, the man has been plagued by arm injuries and prior to 2004, he hadn't had a good year in some time. For a team with pockets as deep as the Yankees, it's a surprising choice, and I think Wright will be hard-pressed to fill Lieber's shoes. Judging from past performance, there seems to be a decent chance he could be a complete bust in NY.
Mike Mussina, Javy Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright....who's next? El Duque? Lieber? Eric Milton? The Yanks still haven't gotten a left-hander....something tells me trade talks for RJ are going to be resurrected sooner, rather than later.
The Yankee bullpen too is as old as the hills. Gordon, Quantrill, Rivera and Stanton are all going to be 35 or older next year. There's an excellent chance Tino Martinez will be signed to play first base next year at the age of 37. Who knows what to expect from Giambi at 33. Posada is aging, Bernie will be 37 next year, and Sheffield 36. I'm sure there are more free agent signings in the offing, but the Yankees are getting old, and fast.
QUOTE(TommyK8 @ Dec 8 2004, 01:01 AM)
I personally don't know what the Yankees are doing. And I'm happy about what I've seen so far. The Yankees are already the oldest team in baseball, and give Tony Womack a 2 year contract at age 35. Another aging piece in the jigsaw puzzle. Another player who could easily break down. Yes, he has some speed, but he had a career year in 2004 with the Cards, and his past history shows nothing close to a .307 average. The Red Sox picked him off the scrap heap last year and had him throughout the entire 2004 spring training before dumping him to St. Louis for minor league pitcher Matt Duff.
As far a Jaret Wright goes, when you have a rotation that has as many question marks in it as the Yankees, do you really want to sign another pitcher with a history of arm problems to a 3 year contract? Wright's career rebounded in 2004 with the Braves, although he lost both of his playoff starts. However, the man has been plagued by arm injuries and prior to 2004, he hadn't had a good year in some time. For a team with pockets as deep as the Yankees, it's a surprising choice, and I think Wright will be hard-pressed to fill Lieber's shoes. Judging from past performance, there seems to be a decent chance he could be a complete bust in NY.
Mike Mussina, Javy Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright....who's next? El Duque? Lieber? Eric Milton? The Yanks still haven't gotten a left-hander....something tells me trade talks for RJ are going to be resurrected sooner, rather than later.
The Yankee bullpen too is as old as the hills. Gordon, Quantrill, Rivera and Stanton are all going to be 35 or older next year. There's an excellent chance Tino Martinez will be signed to play first base next year at the age of 37. Who knows what to expect from Giambi at 33. Posada is aging, Bernie will be 37 next year, and Sheffield 36. I'm sure there are more free agent signings in the offing, but the Yankees are getting old, and fast.
[right][snapback]238957[/snapback][/right]
As far a Jaret Wright goes, when you have a rotation that has as many question marks in it as the Yankees, do you really want to sign another pitcher with a history of arm problems to a 3 year contract? Wright's career rebounded in 2004 with the Braves, although he lost both of his playoff starts. However, the man has been plagued by arm injuries and prior to 2004, he hadn't had a good year in some time. For a team with pockets as deep as the Yankees, it's a surprising choice, and I think Wright will be hard-pressed to fill Lieber's shoes. Judging from past performance, there seems to be a decent chance he could be a complete bust in NY.
Mike Mussina, Javy Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright....who's next? El Duque? Lieber? Eric Milton? The Yanks still haven't gotten a left-hander....something tells me trade talks for RJ are going to be resurrected sooner, rather than later.
The Yankee bullpen too is as old as the hills. Gordon, Quantrill, Rivera and Stanton are all going to be 35 or older next year. There's an excellent chance Tino Martinez will be signed to play first base next year at the age of 37. Who knows what to expect from Giambi at 33. Posada is aging, Bernie will be 37 next year, and Sheffield 36. I'm sure there are more free agent signings in the offing, but the Yankees are getting old, and fast.
[right][snapback]238957[/snapback][/right]
great post... I was just about to post on this but your entry summed it up perfectly.
both of these guys are major risks.
I guess they could pan out but the odds are against them.
Every teams fan base exept the Sox and Yanks would love to have these problems and decisions to make... not to mention the resources to take risks!
Wow, the rumors from last week were that Wright would be signing with the Mariners for 3/$15 million.
Nothing spectacular IMHO. But then again, this FA offseason isn't anything spectacular either. We'll see what happens.
Those were unexpected. I hope Womack and Wright are back to their old selves this year.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/sports.shtml
According to the Post, the Yankees have signed Jaret Wright and Tony Womack. I’m no Billy Beane, but based on October performances, Lieber would seem to be more desirable then Wright. I'm a sorry to see this happen. But Wright is five years younger and may have come a few million cheaper. This all comes down to the absurd truth that what the Mets gave Kris Benson has anything to do with another pitcher's worth.
According to the Post, the Yankees have signed Jaret Wright and Tony Womack. I’m no Billy Beane, but based on October performances, Lieber would seem to be more desirable then Wright. I'm a sorry to see this happen. But Wright is five years younger and may have come a few million cheaper. This all comes down to the absurd truth that what the Mets gave Kris Benson has anything to do with another pitcher's worth.
QUOTE(JamieNYY @ Dec 8 2004, 03:05 AM)
Every teams fan base exept the Sox and Yanks would love to have these problems and decisions to make... not to mention the resources to take risks!
[right][snapback]238965[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]238965[/snapback][/right]
What I fear from the Yankees are major upgrades, especially ones that address the specific problems the Yankees have. I have watched Tony Womack play over the past several years, and I don't fear this man, or think that he is an upgrade over Miguel Cairo. He is not terrible defensively, but he is not spectacular by any means. He is normally a .270 hitter and will be doing his adjusting to a new league while batting at the top of the Yankee lineup. He doesn't walk much. As for Wright, his past track record is horribly inconsistent, or even prior to 2004, consistently bad. Could he continue to excel and even get better? It's possible, but hardly a given.
That said, there is plenty of time before Spring Training to sign or trade for some players I will fear and who could make the Yanks a lot better. I just don't think these 2 fall into that category.
Well, Wright did have one good postseason, in 1997 as a 21 year old kid ....
Colored me baffled. The Yankees decide not to pick up Leiber's $8 million option for next season to save a few bucks, and then they go out and throw $21 million at Jaret Wright? What am I missing here?
This deal is one way the Yankees can and do use their wealth that doesn't get a lot of media attention. Wright's first good season in five years should have merited perhaps a 2 year/$12 million or 3 year/$15 million deal. Instead, the Yankees go in and presumably blow everyone away with 3 years/$21 million to fill in a spot in the middle of their rotation.
JD
This deal is one way the Yankees can and do use their wealth that doesn't get a lot of media attention. Wright's first good season in five years should have merited perhaps a 2 year/$12 million or 3 year/$15 million deal. Instead, the Yankees go in and presumably blow everyone away with 3 years/$21 million to fill in a spot in the middle of their rotation.
JD
Moved to the 'That team 206.4 miles away' forum.
On his 'Replacement Level Yankees Weblog' (a good read, BTW), Larry Mahnken is not happy with the Wright and Womack signings.
Out With the Old, In With the Crap
JD
Out With the Old, In With the Crap
JD
QUOTE(JimDevlin @ Dec 8 2004, 09:23 AM)
On his 'Replacement Level Yankees Weblog' (a good read, BTW), Larry Mahnken is not happy with the Wright and Womack signings.
Out With the Old, In With the Crap
JD
[right][snapback]239003[/snapback][/right]
Out With the Old, In With the Crap
JD
[right][snapback]239003[/snapback][/right]
This article makes some fair points, other then the part where it says if these signings are the "cornerstone" of the Yankees off season moves they are in trouble. Somehow I doubt they are done making moves.
Was Wright one of the pitchers on the Diamondbacks infamous trade list for RJ by any chance?
QUOTE(TommyK8 @ Dec 8 2004, 07:43 AM)
What I fear from the Yankees are major upgrades, especially ones that address the specific problems the Yankees have. I have watched Tony Womack play over the past several years, and I don't fear this man, or think that he is an upgrade over Miguel Cairo. He is not terrible defensively, but he is not spectacular by any means. He is normally a .270 hitter and will be doing his adjusting to a new league while batting at the top of the Yankee lineup. He doesn't walk much. As for Wright, his past track record is horribly inconsistent, or even prior to 2004, consistently bad. Could he continue to excel and even get better? It's possible, but hardly a given.
That said, there is plenty of time before Spring Training to sign or trade for some players I will fear and who could make the Yanks a lot better. I just don't think these 2 fall into that category.
[right][snapback]238983[/snapback][/right]
That said, there is plenty of time before Spring Training to sign or trade for some players I will fear and who could make the Yanks a lot better. I just don't think these 2 fall into that category.
[right][snapback]238983[/snapback][/right]
In fairness, the top two guys in your rotation now (Schil, Wake) are 38 plus. Also the 2003 Sox were the oldest team in baseball, don't know how 2004 changed that.
QUOTE(PhilA67 @ Dec 8 2004, 10:47 AM)
Was Wright one of the pitchers on the Diamondbacks infamous trade list for RJ by any chance?
[right][snapback]239111[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239111[/snapback][/right]
No, they were all pitchers under contract. If the D-backs wanted a FA, why wouldn't they just sign them rather than rely on another team to do it for them. Besides, teams are restricted from trading newly-signed FA's for a period of time.
QUOTE(CTYankeefan @ Dec 8 2004, 02:06 PM)
In fairness, the top two guys in your rotation now (Schil, Wake) are 38 plus. Also the 2003 Sox were the oldest team in baseball, don't know how 2004 changed that.
[right][snapback]239126[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239126[/snapback][/right]
Wake is certainly not at the top of our rotation...And he's a rubber armed knuckleballer who can probably spin that pitch effectively till he's 50. As for Schilling, I'd rather have a 38 year old who brings it like he does over a scared 28 year old (Hi Javy) any day.
Our older players have performed quite well and have avoided injury for the most part. Your older players have had nagging injury problems (Bernie) or serious drug addiction (Sheff, Brown, Jeremy Giambi's not so big anymore's brother)
The Phillies have officially signed Leiber.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi...r_phi&fext=.jsp
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/news/phi...r_phi&fext=.jsp
QUOTE(Manny's ps2 @ Dec 8 2004, 02:56 PM)
Wake is certainly not at the top of our rotation...And he's a rubber armed knuckleballer who can probably spin that pitch effectively till he's 50. As for Schilling, I'd rather have a 38 year old who brings it like he does over a scared 28 year old (Hi Javy) any day.
Our older players have performed quite well and have avoided injury for the most part. Your older players have had nagging injury problems (Bernie) or serious drug addiction (Sheff, Brown, Jeremy Giambi's not so big anymore's brother)
[right][snapback]239219[/snapback][/right]
Our older players have performed quite well and have avoided injury for the most part. Your older players have had nagging injury problems (Bernie) or serious drug addiction (Sheff, Brown, Jeremy Giambi's not so big anymore's brother)
[right][snapback]239219[/snapback][/right]
If Javy was scared, then why did he dominate in his first game, the Yanks' home opener in 2004 in front of 55,000 fans? And then pitch well the entire first half? I will take Gehrig38's (Schilling), Jim Kaat and Joe Girardi's view that it was a mechanical issue with Vazquez. Is he a proven commodity for 2005? No, but in the issue of age, Sox have some older players too and right now on 12/8/04 at 6 PM, Sox have Schilling, Wake and Arroyo as their rotation.
I don't know what the hell the Yankees are doing. Lieber over Wright? Jaret Wright hasn't had an injury-free season in years. NYY might as well have set that money on fire. Wright is going to get lit up.
QUOTE(CTYankeefan @ Dec 8 2004, 06:02 PM)
If Javy was scared, then why did he dominate in his first game, the Yanks' home opener in 2004 in front of 55,000 fans? And then pitch well the entire first half? I will take Gehrig38's (Schilling), Jim Kaat and Joe Girardi's view that it was a mechanical issue with Vazquez. Is he a proven commodity for 2005? No, but in the issue of age, Sox have some older players too and right now on 12/8/04 at 6 PM, Sox have Schilling, Wake and Arroyo as their rotation.
[right][snapback]239304[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239304[/snapback][/right]
Agreed that Vazquez didn't go into the season scared, but there's no doubt that as his arm slot got more screwed up he lost a TON of confidence, and by season's end the problems were nearly as much mental as physical. His reaction on the Damon home run said it all. Immediate and total disgust.
QUOTE(CTYankeefan @ Dec 8 2004, 03:02 PM)
If Javy was scared, then why did he dominate in his first game, the Yanks' home opener in 2004 in front of 55,000 fans? And then pitch well the entire first half? I will take Gehrig38's (Schilling), Jim Kaat and Joe Girardi's view that it was a mechanical issue with Vazquez. Is he a proven commodity for 2005? No, but in the issue of age, Sox have some older players too and right now on 12/8/04 at 6 PM, Sox have Schilling, Wake and Arroyo as their rotation.
[right][snapback]239304[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239304[/snapback][/right]
Not having studied Vazquez's pre- and post-All Star Game mechanics, I can't really say if his problem was mechanical or psychological. He was the closest thing the Yankees had to an ace in the first half, though, so I don't know what would have made him snap if it was all in his head.
In either case, if I were George Steinbrenner (I shudder to think), Vazquez would not be on my "don't let this guy back into Yankee Stadium unless he's selling peanuts" list.
But I wouldn't count on him as my ace of the future either -- not because of last season, but because nothing in his career with Montreal suggested that he was a top-line #1. A solid #2, or a very good #3 for a contender, yes. And in theory, with Mussina and Kevin Brown in the rotation, that's what he should have been.
Of course, "in theory" doesn't translate with Kevin Brown, who has probably been paid more for the starts he hasn't made over the past 5 years than for the ones he has. And Mussina got off to that terrible start. So maybe thrusting the #2/#3 of the future into the #1 position got to him. Or maybe he got hurt. Or maybe Mel Stottlemyre ruined him.
But I wouldn't write him off. He's not Jeff Weaver. Even if New York did get inside his head, I would expect him to be a solid 15-win, 3.50 ERA type guy for the next several years. Problem for the Yankees (which is fine by me) is that they still don't have a #1 of the future. A healthy Mike Mussina might be a stopgap #1 for a few more years. But Javy is a #2/#3, assuming he bounces back. Jaret Wright is a #3 if they're lucky, a Loaiza/Weaver/Contreras otherwise. And what, exactly, after that? Tanyon "The Shame of Worcester" Sturtze? Esteban Loaiza, he of the one good season in his whole ten year career? El Duque with a little duct tape?
Any help on the way?
This either bodes very well for the Red Sox next year, or it bodes well for the Yankees' chances of going well over $200 million as they fix up that pitching staff.
QUOTE
If Javy was scared, then why did he dominate in his first game, the Yanks' home opener in 2004 in front of 55,000 fans? And then pitch well the entire first half?
IMO, because non-power pitchers who switch leagues usually have a good round through the league the first time, then fall off a bit as hitters know what to look for.
There was a discussion of this on SoSH with some good backing examples; I was convinced.
QUOTE(rominer @ Dec 8 2004, 04:33 PM)
But I wouldn't count on him as my ace of the future either -- not because of last season, but because nothing in his career with Montreal suggested that he was a top-line #1. A solid #2, or a very good #3 for a contender, yes. And in theory, with Mussina and Kevin Brown in the rotation, that's what he should have been.
[right][snapback]239333[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239333[/snapback][/right]
I disagree with this. By many accounts, he was a prized pitcher who would rank as a number 1 or 2 starter on most staffs while still with Montreal. His ERA for the last 3 seasons in Montreal were 3.42, 3.91, and 3.24. I can't argue with you about the issue of how he would/has fared with a contender but that can be said about a number of pitchers.
It would have generated some healthy debate here at this time last year as to whether the acquisition of Vazquez or Schilling would have been preferable for the Red Sox.
Wright and Womack are OK signings. Nothing that's going to make me lose any sleep tonight. I would still have kept Lieber over Wright or Milton. I also like the signing of Matt Mantei by the Sox. He can be an excellent setup man if he stays healthy..........
QUOTE(Kid T @ Dec 8 2004, 05:26 PM)
I disagree with this. By many accounts, he was a prized pitcher who would rank as a number 1 or 2 starter on most staffs while still with Montreal. His ERA for the last 3 seasons in Montreal were 3.42, 3.91, and 3.24.
[right][snapback]239365[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239365[/snapback][/right]
See, I look at those numbers, and I think, if you're a contender, those are pretty solid numbers for your #2 starter, and great numbers for your #3. And for that reason, he was deservedly sought after by the Red Sox, Yankees, and others.
But I don't look at those numbers, particularly in the NL, and think "ace."
And I didn't see reason to believe that he was on the path towards becoming an ace. The numbers were reasonably steady over his last 4 years (ages 23-26) in Montreal. Good numbers. Nothing that clearly indicated that a jump to the next level was imminent, though.
By calling him a #2/#3 on a contender, I'm not saying that he's a bad pitcher by any stretch. I'm saying that pitching wins games, and if I want to win a lot of games, I want "great," not "very good," at the top of my rotation.
Whether or not pinning the ill-fitting role of ace on him had anything to do with his downfall last season, though, I'm not sure.
Once again, the yankees screw themselves.
When the yankees fall on their faces when all the old guys retire and the team finishes behind the Devil Rays, thats the day I dance naked in the streets
When the yankees fall on their faces when all the old guys retire and the team finishes behind the Devil Rays, thats the day I dance naked in the streets
QUOTE(CTYankeefan @ Dec 8 2004, 02:06 PM)
In fairness, the top two guys in your rotation now (Schil, Wake) are 38 plus. Also the 2003 Sox were the oldest team in baseball, don't know how 2004 changed that.
[right][snapback]239126[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239126[/snapback][/right]
The average age of the Yankees last year was about 2 years higher than the average age of the Red Sox.
Apparently the Yanks didn't bring Cairo back because they just couldn't get together on a dollar amount. I'm pretty surprised by this- I thought they would bring him back since he played well for them last year and was pretty consistent on a team that certainly had some ups and downs from individual players, especially in the playoffs.
Wright doesn't look like a great signing to me. He's too much of an injury risk and who knows what he'll be like away from Leo Mazzone. MFY fans have been all over Stottlemyer for a while now for doing a poor job with the staff. He would be a decent end-of-the-rotation type for them, but will he stay healthy? Lots of injury risk with the Yankee rotation next year (as of now anyway).
Wright doesn't look like a great signing to me. He's too much of an injury risk and who knows what he'll be like away from Leo Mazzone. MFY fans have been all over Stottlemyer for a while now for doing a poor job with the staff. He would be a decent end-of-the-rotation type for them, but will he stay healthy? Lots of injury risk with the Yankee rotation next year (as of now anyway).
QUOTE(rominer @ Dec 8 2004, 06:03 PM)
See, I look at those numbers, and I think, if you're a contender, those are pretty solid numbers for your #2 starter, and great numbers for your #3. And for that reason, he was deservedly sought after by the Red Sox, Yankees, and others.
But I don't look at those numbers, particularly in the NL, and think "ace."
And I didn't see reason to believe that he was on the path towards becoming an ace. The numbers were reasonably steady over his last 4 years (ages 23-26) in Montreal. Good numbers. Nothing that clearly indicated that a jump to the next level was imminent, though.
By calling him a #2/#3 on a contender, I'm not saying that he's a bad pitcher by any stretch. I'm saying that pitching wins games, and if I want to win a lot of games, I want "great," not "very good," at the top of my rotation.
Whether or not pinning the ill-fitting role of ace on him had anything to do with his downfall last season, though, I'm not sure.
[right][snapback]239387[/snapback][/right]
But I don't look at those numbers, particularly in the NL, and think "ace."
And I didn't see reason to believe that he was on the path towards becoming an ace. The numbers were reasonably steady over his last 4 years (ages 23-26) in Montreal. Good numbers. Nothing that clearly indicated that a jump to the next level was imminent, though.
By calling him a #2/#3 on a contender, I'm not saying that he's a bad pitcher by any stretch. I'm saying that pitching wins games, and if I want to win a lot of games, I want "great," not "very good," at the top of my rotation.
Whether or not pinning the ill-fitting role of ace on him had anything to do with his downfall last season, though, I'm not sure.
[right][snapback]239387[/snapback][/right]
We may also have different perspectives on the state of pitching in the major leagues as well. Stick Vazquez on the Cardinals team last year (clearly a contender) and he would have been the ace. The same could probably be said for the Angels and Dodgers as well. I'm not saying he's in the class of a Schilling or Johnson - but he's an above average pitcher that would be the ace on many staffs.
QUOTE(Kid T @ Dec 8 2004, 10:47 PM)
We may also have different perspectives on the state of pitching in the major leagues as well. Stick Vazquez on the Cardinals team last year (clearly a contender) and he would have been the ace. The same could probably be said for the Angels and Dodgers as well. I'm not saying he's in the class of a Schilling or Johnson - but he's an above average pitcher that would be the ace on many staffs.
[right][snapback]239454[/snapback][/right]
[right][snapback]239454[/snapback][/right]
You'll notice we swept two of those teams out of the playoffs. I think we agree on the type of pitcher Vazquez is (last year notwithstanding). My point is simply that just because a guy is good enough to be your #1, doesn't mean he's a true "ace," a designation I would reserve for guys like Pedro (pre-'04), Schilling, Johnson, Clemens or Maddux in their primes.
If you really want to be in the best position to win, you want a true ace at the top, with a guy like Vazquez as your #2, or better yet, #3. Very few teams have such a luxury, but then, very few teams actually win the World Series. And not all of them have that dominant pitching staff, of course...but it helps.
Certainly, with pockets as deep as the Yankees', I would think they'd want that rare staff where a guy with Vazquez's pre-'04 numbers fits in at #3 (and throwing all that money at Jaret Wright gets them no closer). If Vazquez is the starting point for your pitching staff, then by the time you get to #3 or #4 things probably aren't looking too good. No matter, though. As long as he's in pinstripes I won't shed any tears if his ERA continues to hover around 5.
There are regular-season aces, and then there are the elite aces who truly step it up and dominate on the postseason stage. Even before last November, there is no doubt that most Sox fans wanted Curt Schilling over Javier Vasquez. Everyone knew what Schilling could do. We knew Vasquez had pitched very nicely in Montreal, but we had no idea how well he would pitch in the pressure cooker months of September and October. I don't know how any Yankee fan could be happy with Vasquez and Mike Mussina at the top of their rotation - both are solid aces who will win their share of games throughout the six-month grind, but neither is the kind of pitcher you'd hand the ball to with complete confidence in a 'must win' game.
JD
JD
Mike Mussina has a career 3.16 ERA in the post season with 130 K's in 119.2 IP while walking just 28. In comparison, Randy Johnson has a 3.08 ERA with 124 K's in 108 IP while walking 29. Mussina has a .500 record, while Johnson is just 7-8. Clemens has a career 3.49 ERA with 164 K's in 180.2 IP with 63 BB's. He is the only one of the three with a winning record at 10-7.
So I don't get where Mussina isn't a quality post season starter that could get the ball in a big game.
So I don't get where Mussina isn't a quality post season starter that could get the ball in a big game.
QUOTE(Caspir @ Dec 9 2004, 09:18 AM)
Mike Mussina has a career 3.16 ERA in the post season with 130 K's in 119.2 IP while walking just 28. In comparison, Randy Johnson has a 3.08 ERA with 124 K's in 108 IP while walking 29. Mussina has a .500 record, while Johnson is just 7-8. Clemens has a career 3.49 ERA with 164 K's in 180.2 IP with 63 BB's. He is the only one of the three with a winning record at 10-7.
So I don't get where Mussina isn't a quality post season starter that could get the ball in a big game.
[right][snapback]239513[/snapback][/right]
So I don't get where Mussina isn't a quality post season starter that could get the ball in a big game.
[right][snapback]239513[/snapback][/right]
I think the knock on Mussina from the perspective of Yankee fans is that he is just 4-5 for them in 12 career post-season starts.
Don't get me wrong - I think Mike Mussina is a very good pitcher. He rarely gets blown out and will usually give his team a good chance to win. But his performance to date shows he can be beaten, and that is very different from a truly great postseason pitcher like Curt Schilling, who you expect to win when he takes the mound in October.
JD
JD
I'm not quite sure on my opinion is about these signings. Part of me likes them and part of me doesn't. I really want to see them start getting young again which it appears they're not doing. I think now in hindsight Leiber would have been the better option given the total money. I guess I just gotta wait and see how everything plays out.
Jared Wright failed his physical with the Yankees
Per Rotoworld:Jaret Wright - S - ATL
According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, reports are that Jaret Wright flunked his physical with the Yankees because of a shoulder problem.
Or the Yankees are just waiting a really long time to announce their deals as they so like to do. Tony Womack's contract also hasn't been finalized. Dec. 11 - 4:55 pm et
Source: CBS.SportsLine.com
Per Rotoworld:Jaret Wright - S - ATL
According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, reports are that Jaret Wright flunked his physical with the Yankees because of a shoulder problem.
Or the Yankees are just waiting a really long time to announce their deals as they so like to do. Tony Womack's contract also hasn't been finalized. Dec. 11 - 4:55 pm et
Source: CBS.SportsLine.com
I really, really, really, really hope Wright didn't fail the physical. I REALLY hope he's still a MFY. This smells fishy to me...
QUOTE(Loyal Bruins Fan @ Dec 11 2004, 04:56 PM)
Jared Wright failed his physical with the Yankees
Per Rotoworld:Jaret Wright - S - ATL
According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, reports are that Jaret Wright flunked his physical with the Yankees because of a shoulder problem.
Or the Yankees are just waiting a really long time to announce their deals as they so like to do. Tony Womack's contract also hasn't been finalized. Dec. 11 - 4:55 pm et
Source: CBS.SportsLine.com
[right][snapback]241362[/snapback][/right]
Per Rotoworld:Jaret Wright - S - ATL
According to CBS Sportsline's Scott Miller, reports are that Jaret Wright flunked his physical with the Yankees because of a shoulder problem.
Or the Yankees are just waiting a really long time to announce their deals as they so like to do. Tony Womack's contract also hasn't been finalized. Dec. 11 - 4:55 pm et
Source: CBS.SportsLine.com
[right][snapback]241362[/snapback][/right]
Music to my ears (eyes)!
and I really, really, hope you're wrong JtB!!!!!!!
Oh... as for Moose in the postseason.... he gets NO run support from the Yanks when he starts for some reason. Bad luck I guess!
QUOTE(JohntheBaptist @ Dec 11 2004, 02:57 PM)
I really, really, really, really hope Wright didn't fail the physical. I REALLY hope he's still a MFY. This smells fishy to me...
You may be right. According to FOXSports.com ...QUOTE
... the status of right-hander Jaret Wright with the Yankees is uncertain due to the team's concern over the condition of Wright's pitching arm.
Wright agreed to a three-year, $21 million contract with the Yankees earlier this week. The Yankees, concerned by an issue one of their doctors raised with his MRI, apparently want him to get another opinion.
A source with knowledge of Wright's medical records says the pitcher was cleared to pitch by Dr. Lewis Yocum, and that his MRI "looks better than Pedro's, better than (Bartolo) Colon's, better than (Kelvim) Escobar's."
Rather than void Wright's contract, the Yankees might seek to tweak it, perhaps by guaranteeing him less money.
Wright agreed to a three-year, $21 million contract with the Yankees earlier this week. The Yankees, concerned by an issue one of their doctors raised with his MRI, apparently want him to get another opinion.
A source with knowledge of Wright's medical records says the pitcher was cleared to pitch by Dr. Lewis Yocum, and that his MRI "looks better than Pedro's, better than (Bartolo) Colon's, better than (Kelvim) Escobar's."
Rather than void Wright's contract, the Yankees might seek to tweak it, perhaps by guaranteeing him less money.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944230
Wright passes 2nd physical, looks like deal completed.
Wright passes 2nd physical, looks like deal completed.
QUOTE(JohntheBaptist @ Dec 11 2004, 11:03 PM)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1944230
Wright passes 2nd physical, looks like deal completed.
[right][snapback]241668[/snapback][/right]
Wright passes 2nd physical, looks like deal completed.
[right][snapback]241668[/snapback][/right]
Excellent, can't wait to see both Pavano & Wright be busts next year!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.