Henry going to get AROD no matter what

From the sounds of this, Henry is going to get AROD no matter what, b/c he is so pissed @ Nomar. Says this deal is Henry's deal - not Theo's - not LL's - but Henry's....

Hmmmmm

You are right. I believe he said "the trade is losing steam and is probably not going to happen" Something more like that.

Hmmm...that remind you of any other owners? Say, one 206.4 miles south of Boston?

It might be a good thing for Henry to take the wheel on this one deal. If it's done to improve the team, not for spite.

SoSH posters heard from someone listening to FAN that:

Phillies get - Nomar + Trot

Rangers get - Manny + Rollins

Sox get - ARod + Abreu

Then that spineless weasel Kirkjian has left himself an out, hasn't he.

"probably" ain't news Timmy... and sorry about Pettitte... you Yankee-loving pr*ck!

I know that. Perhaps a conceptual agreement could be reached now b/w Boras/ARod and the Sox with respect to the last 3 years? An addendum or side letter to his contract (no way Boras will agree to a handshake deal)? The money will be there for Boras/ARod, it will simply be wired from a different bank account.

So the Sox give up three of the biggest pieces to possibly the best offense in history for A-Rod and Abreu, and still need to get a 2b and an OF to replace Trot? This was from WFAN, right?

I'd pass on that deal.

EDIT: Added the OF to replace Trot part.

That same trade rumor is on the phillies chat forum, or as they cleverly call it phorum

Not sure if there is validity, I just wanted to see if everyone was in line with my thinking that adding Trot to this deal sucks.

The only possible way that adding Trot to that deal wouldn't suck is if the Sox had a deal for another OF in line to replace Trot, and that outfielder's name rhymed with Glad.

But I don't see that happening...

How about bruise, hamerin' or see-in'





(cruz, cameron or guillen)

Does Abad rhyme with Glad?

So much of the Sox salary situation depends on Keith Foulke, because if they don't get him they're unlikely to re-invest the failed money back into the already competent bullpen, thus opening up some flexibility to use it elsewhere.

To me their is only one make or break deal this weekend.

If we get Keith Foulke signed I find it hard to believe that we are not the most improved team in the league regardless of what happens in the Man-Rod deal.

If we go into the season with basically the same team we had, but with Schilling and Foulke I will feel very happy.

The ability to sign Nomar after all this still would be possible, especially with Tejada getting 3 year offers in the 25 Million range, Nomar would have no chance of making the kind of money we are offering anywhere else.

So in summary.

Schill and Foulke + our current guys = Me Happy

Schill and Foulke + A-Rod + Unknown trade returns = Me Happy

Pitching wins

They're also viable options, but I think those guys are probably heading elsewhere: Cruz to Tampa Bay, Cameron to Oaktown, and Guillen to Atlanta. At least that's the latest on those guys. But if the Sox do sign Foulke, then they'd be out of the Vlad sweepstakes because of money issues, and would be inclined to go after one of these three. If they end up losing Trot and Manny both.

I am dangerously approaching the point of apathy with this whole situation. Anybody else on board with leaving this team like it is, knowing we've added Curt Schilling? Williamson IMO is a good closer, Foulke is just using the Sox to drive up the price for Choakland. Tired of the waffling.

I know that. Perhaps a conceptual agreement could be reached now b/w Boras/ARod and the Sox with respect to the last 3 years? An addendum or side letter to his contract (no way Boras will agree to a handshake deal)? The money will be there for Boras/ARod, it will simply be wired from a different bank account.

alas fenway_geek

you do have very good ears my friend. First one to say how we can do the deal. I so glad another informed fan.
So refreshing, thank you
pay attention fans the last sentence is one heck of a powerful statement.
Smart readers will figure it out.

also
mr. Cuza meets with the big trio, because he represents Pedro, Ortiz and some other good player on market that the trio will speak about. Never say never.

Foulke announcement soon, and by the way Mr. Henry wants Arod, Mr Henry the billionaire who was after arod long ago.
Great weekend for redsox fans as monday wil be rule 5 day.
Friday, saturday, and sunday wil be fun.
Thanks ,

just awsome my fellow poster.
great job

I have too much respect for Keith Foulke as a pitcher to dismiss him, but I do agree with the sentiment that last year's team + Schilling is pretty damn good, if that's what it is.

Plausible Phillies deal I could live with:

Nomar + Trot + Williamson -> phillies
Abreu + Wagner -> sox

But 2004 isn't last year's team.

You have a pissed off Nomar and a pissed off Manny, knowing the team did everything all off-season to get rid of them, in the lineup.

Forget it. Not gonna happen.

Once a team basically says "we don't want you", they have to get rid of the player no matter what. Especially in baseball, where guys live together for 6 months and play every day.

Nomar and Manny will not be in Sox unis in 04.

And that is a good thing.

Manny is too dumb/clueless to be pissed off. If he returns to the Sox in '04, he'll put up comparable numbers if not better than last year, that's what he does. As for Nomar, I think the one who's pissed is JWH, so yeah, he may be gone. Fine. Send him outta here and sign Tejada in his place. Your batting order is in much better shape with Manny and Tejada than A-Rod and ??? in left field. Unless of course, the ??? is Vlad. But I don't see that happening.

I don't think any of the Red Sox words or actions have been consistent with the belief they don't want Nomar Garciaparra, and the waiving of Manny Ramirez was granted at his request. The Red Sox have been very careful not to burn bridges and both players have been largely optimistic about the possibility of returning to Boston.

Do they want A-Rod? Sure. But this idea that they're too far out to sea with him and can't come back alone because of Nomar is pure bunk. The options are wide open.

SoSH'ers are also including other various media outlets that are sqwaking about this Nomar/Trot thing. One interesting thought that came up - Nixon departure is a salary move to allow the Sox to work with Vlad. My concern is that we are giving up a character guy in Trot and getting some unknowns. Although Vlad is considerably good.

well put... these were my thoughts EXACTLY!

I don't think character is an issue here. Especially in A-Rod's case. As long as there is a dancing Millar on the big screen team chemistry should be fine. Pedro's comments to the Globe made me think there is a certain indifference to Nomar in the clubhouse (then again this could be the pot calling the kettle black). As for Vlad, who knows. I always see him smiling on SportsCenter.

I love Nomar and Trot, but could I live with them being replaced by AROD and VLAD? Hell yes.

Let's not get too far afield with the Vlad idea. As great as it would be, consider this:

Abreu's contract numbers:

2004: $10.0M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $13.0M
2007: $15.0M

Vlad's: (His last three years, this is FA year)

2001: $6.0M
2002: $8.0M
2003: $11.5M

That's a lot of money to take on, without adding A-Rod.

Any deal for Nomar had better include Kim out of town and NOT Trot Nixon. he's the quintessential Boston player. These Vlad cries are just ridiculous. Why not Nomar for Rollins and a prospect and move him to 2nd base? Then we could wait on Foulke and look for a corner outfielder- Jose Guillen?

Trading Trot would piss me off way more than seeing Nomar go. Trot wants to be here.

Now, if the trading of Trot is leading to the signing of Vlad, sign me up...twice!

But the money doesn't make sense, as someone said above. ARod, Abreu and Vlad would cost more than Manny, Nomar and Nixon.

And Vlad is another non-English-speaking shy player who keeps to himself much like Manny. As someone connected with the Expos said recently on the FAN (was it Minaya?), Vlad plays hard, doesn't talk to the media and goes home to his mom immediately after the game. Hard to see him in Boston. They'd eat him up quicker than they did Manny.

However, the latest wild rumor out of Philly has Williamson going to the Phillies along with Trot and Nomar for Abreu and Wagner. Now THAT makes a heck of a lot more sense for the Sox. Would make Foulke unnecessary but would necessitate another righty arm in the pen (Urbina, Benitez, someone else) to replace Williamson.

The head spins.

Trot Nixon...character? Gimme a break!!

Curt Schilling would probably describe Nixon as one of those media "ass-kissers" he was talking about. Nixon was always willing (along with Wake and Lowe) to sell out a team member in order to keep the vultures off HIM. So, no matter how stupidly Nixon played the game (the mind-boggling baserunning gaffes, frequently throwing the ball to the wrong base, tossing the ball into the stands after two outs, etc.), or no matter how deficient parts of his game were (the weak arm, the inability to hit lefties) the media was there to support him because they knew Nixon would always be there to provide them with inside info or a good quote questioning Manny or Everett or whomever the media wanted to persecute any particular week. The guy could have gone into the stands and murdered someone and the media would just have contributed it to Trot's "passion for the game."

I would describe Nixon as either not particularly bright or not a standup guy for his teammates or both.

This would be an ideal time to dump him after his career year right before a big contract negotiation. He'll probably command more than he's really worth.

That being said, trading Nomar and Trot and only getting Abreu back would be ludicrous.

OK- If bringing Abreu here sat well with Francona-- then no problem. Maybe playing on what would be perceived as the best team on the planet would prompt him to show up on time for Tito. Any deal that brings a hammer like Wagner to Boston HAS to be made. You cannot underestimate the impact he has on a staff. The guy is a pure athlete-- he's actually right handed for those who don't know. he broke his arm a few times and started throwing left handed and now he throws 100 MPH with both arms-- unreal. The only way I'd like to see Trot go is for Wagner or someone of his caliber. Abreu makes a lot of cash, but Trot is due for a raise in arbitration. Abreu is a great athlete. After this trade, we would still be in need of a corner outfielder and second baseman and would have a limited amount of cash to satisfy these needs. Second base would be glove only and the corner outfielder would be average...........if you think it's Vlad, then try splitting the prozac in half.

Valmoose- Trot sells out teammates? Huh? More like being a straight-shooter and calling a spade a spade. I'd rather have him come out and say what's on his mind than be the player who wished to remain anonymous. Trot plays hard and hits in the clutch. Granted, I'd rather see him in left, but his comments regarding Everett and Manny were spot on to me. Every fan was speaking it and it was refreshing to hear a guy get vocal about it. To me, Manny and Carl were the one's who did the selling out--- Know that much, will ya?

Bump, don't forget, however, that whenever the media called him on his comments about Manny and Carl, he invariably backed off them immediately. He waffled more than Keith Foulke. Should've stuck to his guns.

With that said, I still want him here. Don't forget the clutch homers in the playoffs.

Trot is that southern grown guy who tells it like it is. similar to ortiz and millar. they are all the same type of guy.

it's a mistake if they trade trot for anyone. besides, abreu and francona dont get along. why would management put their new manager in that position right away. doesn't make sense.

if you trade trot to free up space for vlad, that's one thing. but not to take on another contract like abreu. doesn't work.

I remember him backing off the Manny comments a bit- probably because Manny is a child and there's no reason to cause a stir, because there's no way to reach a guy who's a few chromosomes away from riding his bike backwards in the woods. I do remember Carl's "You need to apologize to Trot" rant and Trot saying "No, I don't need or want an apology." That's sticking to your guns. Carl was as cool as cancer in the clubhouse and everybody hated him.

Check that: Everyone but Shea hated Carl.......they liked to play dress-up with eachother.

Clueless. Trot gets to "tell it like it is" because he isn't a superstar. The press isn't actively trying to get all 24 of his teammates to say something derogatory about him.

Trot lives in that precious bubble where he gets all the credit when he delivers a clutch hit, but shoulders none of the blame when he doesn't. With that in mind, his holier-than-thou act in the press is quite irritating.

Strong disagreement from here. Jimy Williams was wise about one thing...it is essential for a team to keep certain issues "in-house." As soon as even one player starts criticizing another in the media, endearing hemself to the press at the expense of a fellow teammate, it's a big problem for that team. Everyone will be forced to take sides, and have the annoyance of the media trying to find out where they stand on the controversy and that will lead to more and more distraction and division. Trot was always way too ready with criticism of others (as if his own play were perfect when he was probably the dumbest player on the field much of the time) and had to back off his hasty words time and time again.

When someone is sticking it to another player on his team in the press and then backing down the day after, chances are he's too afraid to confront that player personally about something, is venting to the wrong people about it and then having to make nice with the player in question. That passive-aggressive thing just makes everyone crazy. Talk to the player one on one, or call a team meeting but above all, keep it "in-house."

Carl's gone and Manny is on his way out. What's that tell you? Jimy is gone too. Pretty soon they, and all of there "in house" issues will be "out house" issues, and that's what is best for the team overall. When Trot makes a dumb ass play in the field, he admits it and moves on-- rather than not speaking about it and letting the media formulate their own theories. What's to say that Trot didn't try those other avenues or hasn't used that approach with other teammates when problems arose? Manny and Carl were the only two, and they most certainly deserved it. I see your point and reasoning and no doubt agree, but lets not discredit Trot and his emotional worth to this team......he's a sparkplug and Red Sox Nation loves him.

Ok I have to comment on Trot. I do not like the idea of trading Nomar and Trot for Abreu....there has to be something more to that deal. Now if trading Trot means we get Vlad then I'm all for it (but not to have Abreau on the team as well - that would be way too much money in my opinion). I know Trot may have said some things about Everett/Manny that he probably shouldn't have said, but who is perfect? I try not to hold a grudge towards players who do/say something stupid especially after all the good they have done....look at Manny, I don't hate the guy for what he did with the Philly game, or the hotel meeting or the interview with Joe Morgan about his dream to end up playing for the Yanks...I appreciate Manny's talent, as he is one of the best hitters.

So I just don't understand where all the negativity on Trot comes from....he is not a superstar player but he is a pretty darn good ball player. I appreciate his work ethic on the field and I would be very sad to see Trot go.

so you're telling me, Trot would swallow his tongue the second he becomes "superstar" statis. he's just going to change his mentality? if is asked a question, he's gonna answer it bottom line. that won't change wither he's the 25th man or the first

So far the boards have gotten rid of Manny, Nomar, Nixon, Damon, Kim, Williamson, Lowe, Mendoza - have I left anyone off? Please, Theo, don't pay any attention to us!

Doesn't Curt Schilling "tell it like it is?" How about A-Rod? Pedro told the media that if Manny really said he'd like to play for the Yankees, then "that's pretty stupid." The "clueless" comment above is a round-about way of defending our two superstars that are too shy to step to the mike--- Nomar and Manny. The Sox brass is tired of their reclusive ways.....so, no problem..... we'll ship them out of town to a market they're more "comfortable" in. You've got to have a pair to play in Boston and Trot's got enough savvy for most of the team himself.

The money Vlad is looking for and the money Nomar is looking for is a wash, I don't see them adding Abreu and Vlad, and for the same money I'll take Vlad any day of the week. (Assuming we can make a play for Vlad) If we could just get the Phillies to take Damon's contract we'd be all set. Nomar + Damon + Williamson for Abreu + Wagner that would give us a starting outfield of LF Abreu CF Vlad RF Nixon, with Wagner closing and you're still not to far out of your budget (as I've said _many_ times before Nomar/Vlad is essentially a wash salary-wise Damon and Abreu is like giving up 3-4m a year but Theo still has that much to play with if the Foulke deal falls though need to see what Williamson is set to make though and how that compares whatever Wagner is making.

I just want to get this straight, you'd rather have Trot Nixon than Vladimir Guerrero, right?

thank you

Vladimir G is porbably not even an option. He was nts 8 yrs and 160 million dollars. Sox don;t like giving out more than 3 years and this money does not factor in the fact that it will be difficultif damne near impossible to find someone who will insure his back. I'm surprised that anyone willing to take on Nomar isn't concerned about the same thing regarding his wrist. I think they are both great
players but beeing great and being feesible are two different things.

Auster- No, not right...."RIDICULOUS." How the hell is this team to afford Vlad Guerrero. The mere thought of getting A-Rod, a closer, a second baseman and Vladimir Guerrero is (not just laughable-- it's more akin to a crack pipe dream). This type of nonsense is why this board is the AAA to Sosh.

Pahahhahaahahaahahahhahgaaha, You're serious? HAhahahahahhaa even Baltimore is not stupid enough to pay him $20m a year. He'll be lucky if he gets 15 hahaha

you know, the first time i heard to the idea of the sox signing vlad was on the SoSH board. not saying this board is the same, but they do think along the same lines

See previous post, Nomar/Vlad is a salary wash.