that might be just the sauerbeck trade to the cubs

Or it could be the second baseman we need. Theo said it himself when he said that he thought we had a great team in place for next year as long as no one hits the ball to second. I'm not sure what our options are anymore. Now Graffanino is gone too.

i think you are completely right about the sox calling the bluff. this puts them in exactly the position they wanted. yet you wonder how much the red sox brass is still thinking about what A-Rod could mean finacially with sponsers and the NESN cable package. A-Rod's could end up paying for himself. what it comes down to is how much do they want Manny. then what deals could they pull to still fill those holes at 2b and LF.


with the Miguel Tejada signing, it will leave Jerry Hairston Jr or Brian Roberts available. will Theo make a trade with a divisional opponent.

Well, it's very consistent with what Theo's been saying and what's been reported. Namely that the Sox priorities are signing Nomar and getting other players for 2nd base etc. It also does force Texas to come to them. However, I think the Rangers probably were pushing for the trade more over the last few days because of what ARod said in Miami.

I think the kind of funny thing is that 1) the Rangers came to the Sox with this deal initially 2) JH went off on Tellem thereby allowing 3) Hicks to try to hold the Sox up for ransom but 4) the Sox decided they wanted Nomar after all and 5) Hicks is now S****int his pants because he could have done this trade straight up 1 week ago and it would have saved him $90M.

And it's still snowing.

Great minds think alike...I just posted the same exact thing in the second base thread! Hairston was hurt for much of last season, Roberts is a switch hitter and only made 7 errors last season in 107 games at second. I wonder what it would take to pry him from Balto.

ARod will only pay for himself if the TEAM is as good as it's been the last 2 years. Ask Hicks. If you have the best player but a lousy team, no one cares.

AB R H 2b 3b hr tb rbi bb so sb cs avg obp slg obs

Roberts (2003) 460 65 124 22 4 5 169 41 46 58 23 6 .270 .337 .367 .704

Hairston JR ('02)426 55 114 25 3 5 160 32 34 55 21 6 .268 .329 .376 .705



very similar numbers for the two. hairston was injured last season with a hand injury i think. not impressed with the on base percentage. but i suppose that wouldn't matter if we keep damon

remember williamson and damon are on the block. they could be theo's next move

The way I see this whole development is the following.
1)The Sox saying their pursuing signing Nomar tells Hicks to go Foulke himself, there by bringing Hicks demands way down and making him want to do the deal straight up. Maybe tommorrow the Sox can pull a prospect from him as well based on A Rod's comments on TV and maybe even dump BK or (hopefully not) Scott Williamson on Tex as well which frees up more cap room.
2) Tejada's deal means Nomar is going to get a take it or leave it 4/48 offer. The same offer that was called a slap in the face last week.
3) The Sox eventually make a trade for A Rod, dealing Manny and maybe/maybe not BK or Williamson and maybe/maybe not getting a prospect as well. The Sox grab the odd man out in B'more knowing they now have an inexpensive 2b they've said they are seeking.
4) Now with the freed up space of dealing Sauerbeck and getting an inexpensive 2b, they make a run at Vlad to steal him from B'more. Problem with this is Vlad says he wants to play for a small market team, but the chance at a WS can change minds in a hurry. Vlad is a fairly long shot but worth a try. If Vlad doesn't work, (which in my opinion it won't but it's worth a try) the Sox grab Aubry Huff and all holes are filled.

B'more has a great offensive team if they really do get I Rod and Vlad but the problem is their pitching sucks and they won't be able to hang with the big boys (Bos, the MFY and maybe even Tor who has good pitching now) The Sox combo of either Manny/Nomar or A Rod/Aubry/2b odd man out in B'more in my opinion keeps the Sox well ahead of the East teams when you couple it with our pitching staff. Just my thoughts and as I said, I don't see the Sox getting Vlad but maybe just driving the price up too high for B'more to get him and sending him to LA which is where I'd like to see him land if he's not in a Sox uni.

umm....last time i checked the red sox were still a good team even with out nomar and Manny. considerably better then the rangers the last two seasons. some top line players would still be on the roster. a little bit better the the ones surrounding AROD in texas.

My point is that ARod isn't going to be a difference maker between the Sox being good or in last place. That's all.

By the way, if I'm Nomar, I go tell THEO and Co. to screw after seeing what Tejada got. They gave him a 6/72M contract. That's crazy talk.

That is, unless the Sox are offering better than 4/48 as has been reported.





Orioles land former MVP Tejada for six years, $72 million
Posted: Sunday December 14, 2003 7:07PM; Updated: Sunday December 14, 2003 7:29PM



NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Former American League MVP Miguel Tejada agreed Sunday night to a $72 million, six-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles -- the longest and richest deal of the offseason so far.

"Miguel continues the tradition of great Orioles shortstops," Orioles vice president Mike Flanagan said. "The cornerstone of the Orioles through the years has been our shortstops, and he certainly fits in that mold."



The deal is worth an average of $12 million annually through 2009, according to contract information obtained by The Associated Press. Tejada must pass a physical to finalize the contract.

The Orioles still have more money to spend, and they have shown interest in free agents Vladimir Guerrero, Ivan Rodriguez and Javy Lopez.

"We have other players that are big players that we want to add to the club," executive vice president Jim Beattie said. "This is a signal -- one of the things we can do to show players that the Orioles are ready to contend, hopefully quickly."

Tejada, 27, earned AL MVP honors in 2002 when he hit .308 with 34 home runs and 131 RBIs in 2002 to help the A's win 103 games and the AL West. But last year he slumped to a .278 average with 27 homers and 106 RBIs, striking out 65 times and drawing 53 walks.

"How many chances do you get to add an MVP-caliber player to your club who wants to be there for a long time?" new Orioles manager Lee Mazzilli said.

The Seattle Mariners and Detroit Tigers had also expressed interest in Tejada. But Baltimore saw him as a key to improving its lot in the AL East, where it has finished next-to-last for six consecutive years, trailing the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox and Toronto Blue Jays.

Boston and New York have each made major moves this winter, and the Blue Jays have made several smaller moves to improve their pitching.

"You can't play dumb to the surroundings of what's going on around you," Mazzilli said. "But we have to think about our team."

Tejada receives a $12 million signing bonus, with $4 million payable in 2004 and $2 million each in 2005, 2006, 2010 and 2011.

He receives yearly salaries of $3 million in 2004, $9 million in 2005, $10 million in 2006, $12 million in 2007, $13 million in 2008 and $13 million in 2009.

Tejada made $5 million last season and $3.65 million in 2002.

6 years- 72 million for Tejada. This is a far cry from the 8-9 million annually that we have talked about on this board.

The pieces of the offseason puzzle are starting to fall into place. My gut tells me Nomar will balk at 4 years- 48 million. The Sox will then get the AROd deal done.

edit- removed Tejada link

Obviously you believe Manny's story....I have some beautiful land in Florida i'll sell you.

Sox asked Manny to see the doctor about his condition. He refused. Instead he partied with Yankee friend Wilson, who whispered into Manny's ear about how great it was to be a Yankee.

Manny has no loyalty but to himself. PERIOD.

He can have all the friends he wants in the off-season...but to spend so much time with Yankee buddies during a pennant chase is flat out WRONG. He has friends on his own team...where were they??? Where they were supposed to be.

Manny's show has got to go!

You're right about this, but the baseball atmosphere in DFW is virtually nonexistent compared to New England. Right now, the Sox get top billing during football/hockey season in New England. In DFW, the top story was controversy between Ebenezer Ekuban and Bill Parcells, not the ARod story. In fact, during the baseball season, the Cowboys are the top billing.

Hicks and company have been trying to follow the blueprint given to them by GW Bush since he bought the team. The blueprint is fine, it's the execution that has been bungled.

Bush and his partners gave Hicks a baseball team on the rise. A brand new stadium that is absolutely beautiful; enough acreage surrounding the ballpark to enable the team to make money in renting real estate; the surrounding area that is not owned by the team has restaurants, hotels, two theme parks, etc., etc. to help facilitate larger crowds; a roster full of stars (IRod, Juan Gone, Raffy ...); a reasonable salary structure; and a team that was not only competitive, but also winning.

Hicks takes over and pfftt ... he promptly over pays grossly for ARod and Chan Ho; loses IRod, Juan Gone and Raffy (although he later reacquires Raffy and Juan Gone, but after both are shadows of their former selves); attendance plummets due to the lack of performance; the team can't develop the land around the ballpark to make extra revenue because they can't put a winner on the field ... I could go on and one, but my fingers are starting to cramp up. B)

The problem with Hicks is that not only is he running the Rangers into the ground, but he's running the Stars into the ground too.

My point to all of this is that while it is true that ARod will only pay for himself if the team is good, but you must also have an atmosphere condusive to success. Baseball in Arlington, Texas, as it stands now and for the past four seasons, does not possess that. Boston does and really has for quite a while. The fervor and enthusiasm for Red Sox baseball seems to be perpetually high, even during the years leading up to when Harrington proclaimed that Boston was "not a large market team."

I totally disagree with your assessment, the only one you are gonna lose period is gonna be Derek Lowe, the others are already making what they are going to get on the open market or in some cases more. Lowe makes 4.5 mil next year and in 2005 will likely be looking for 10 mil +.

Look at what Cameron signed for and soon to be Pudge and Javy, those players would likely command more than Trot or Varitek could ever command on the open market, they if extended will average no more than their 2004 totals and with the Luxury cap going up in 2005 and beyond should be no problem to extend regardless of who is at SS.

The same applies to Pedro, since their is no way and he knows this already that he will get 17.5 Mil per year, the Sox will likely get him extended for again, less than his 2004 numbers.

The best thing they could do for those 3 is extend them all now if possible and try and parse that into some relief for 2004, with the 8 Million increases in 2005 and 2006 it would be relatively easy to backload those contracts abit to provide some relief now when we need it, also Johnny Damon will be off the books after 2005 as well.

My sentiment exactly. I think this makes the A Rod deal all the more likely to happen because the Sox won't offer anything higher then Miggy's deal so Nomar will balk and that split second of thought will cost him the B on his cap and seal the Manny/A Rod deal. I really want A Rod on the club but in my perfect world Nomar was playing 2b. Those hopes have faded with this outlandish, overpriced, contract the O's just gave out. How the hell do they still have money for both I Rod and Vlad because no one is telling me vlad wont command at least 17 per from B'more after this deal and I Rod may even up his demand now that he sees the free spending O's. This deal could really hurt B'more in the long run of this offseason. I see I Rod going to B'more but not vlad simply because he will demand more then they have to offer. But as for what you said, yes I think this brings A Rod one step closer to a Sox uniform and puts Nomar one step further towards LA. Wacky stuff these winter meetings. And the O's backed off the managers strict length of contract stance, interesting for remaining FA's. But somewhere Vlad Guerrero is looking rather happy and probably something like this "6/72 Yippie I now want 6/110, hey everybody next rounds on me."

While the Tejada deal might spur the ARod to Boston trade, the problem is that more than likely it erodes the leverage the Sox had over the Rangers that they didn't have to make the trade. Of course, Theo and Trio can continue to leak it that the negotiations continue to go well. The hitch will be if Tellum leaks something contrary.

Peter Angelos is an idiot.

His fiscal irresponsibility will probably be frowned upon by his fellow owners.

Did he bid against himself? 12 million annually came out of nowhere.

I agree with Pozos Stick on the leverage point and forgot to throw that in, but as far as I'm concerned Hicks is being told to dump A Rod immediately and will do it straight up. The problem is finding good players in return for Nomar because now other teams can say, "Well look at Miggy, there's no way Nomar signs for less so our payroll is Foulked over. Therefore take these prospects and be happy." But in my opinion A Rod is as good as ours but it sucks that this deal has such a domino effect on negotiations. And I also agree with Crazy Carl's Agent on the whole Peter Angelos is an idiot and he must have bid against himself because we couldn't have been that far off in assessing Miggy's worth. Everyone in baseball had him at 8-9 per and all of a sudden this bombshell drops. He's beyond idiocy, he's unfathomably moronic.

Detroit and another team (I forget which) apparently offered him $10 million per season, but for obvious reasons he didn't want to sign. The money was out there, but I wonder if the O's would have offered the same $10 million if he wouldn't have signed just to get the money and not go to Detroit or another bad team.

lowe and tek have boras as their agent. pedro won't sign for a penny less than schilling got, and nixon will be climbing into the 8M range with one more solid season. these negotiations are not going to be easy, and none of the people involved is likely to take less for the sake of the team. re-signing nomar and being stuck with manny's contract will erode the stability of the core in the next 18 months

12 M a year for Tejada....I NEVER expected that...I thought he would get 8-9M... and if he was lucky would get 10M...now I really feel that Nomar/Tellum would never take 12M a year and that 16/17M would still be what he really wants.....because obviously Nomar is better than Tejada and thus he would want more than 12M a year. So I don't think the Tejada contract helps us with the Nomar situation....

In other news, Graffanino's gone. Second base situation getting a little tighter...

They've got to offer Nomar 13 million now. If he really wants to stay he can probably get them to add some incentives. The Tejada signing has narrowed the difference between what Nomar wants and what the club has to offer.

manny to texas
arod to boston
nomar to 2nd base
gabe kapler to left field

sauerback and bjk for a left fielder???

just a thought

If Pedro signs for what Schilling got...I would streak.

Pedro makes 5.5 million more than what Schilling makes in 2004. Which is incidentally, about what Derek Lowe makes in 2004. If one distributes 5.5 over Lowe and Tek, and we have all three back for the same price.

Nixon climbing into the eight million range is a joke. The reason? Carl Everett had 1.5 more win shares over Nixon last year, more in both batting and fielding. Ask Carl Everett if he's going to get 8 million. Sure Nixon isn't a cancer like Everett was (although reports of this have been largely exaggerated), but cancer also isn't worth a couple million.

I will go on the record right now in staying no way Varitek and Nixon will not average more than they make in 2004 over any longterm contract, either extended or signed by someone else. If they do, then let them go cause someone is seriously overpaying.

I give up.

This article quotes Rangers officials as saying they still want Manny, Money and Kim for ARod. hmmmmmmmmmm..... Wonder if the deal with Tejada and the wall Theo is backing into has anything to do with that? I think it's downright hilarious that the Rangers want the Sox to give them $5M a year to offset Manny and Kim's salaries.

By the way, Curry was the guy who broke the story about Pettite being pissed at Cashman and George, so that might give this story a little more credibility.

On another tangent, how about the O's adding $40m!!!!! to their payroll next year.

The Orioles Sign Tejada and May Not Be Done
By JACK CURRY

Published: December 15, 2003


EW ORLEANS, Dec. 14 — When Manager Lee Mazzilli was asked Sunday afternoon if the Baltimore Orioles were going to start spending their surplus of money on free agents, he smiled and promised that they would act soon.

A few hours later, the Orioles announced that they had signed the free-agent shortstop Miguel Tejada to a six-year, $72 million contract, snaring one of the biggest players on the market. The Orioles also spoke confidently about possibly signing the free-agent outfielder Vladimir Guerrero and one of the premier free-agent catchers, Ivan Rodriguez or Javy Lopez, in what would be an amazing haul for the team.

"At this point, there's nothing that's out of mix," said Mike Flanagan, the Orioles' vice president for baseball operations.

The Orioles were expected to be active at the winter meetings because they were planning to add about $40 million to their payroll in trying to compete against the Yankees, the Boston Red Sox and the improved Toronto Blue Jays in the American League East.

Tejada, who named the A.L. most valuable player for 2002 with the Oakland Athletics, is the first major player the Orioles have landed.

Tejada, who hit .278 with 27 homers and 106 runs batted in for the A's last season, picked the Orioles over the Seattle Mariners and the Detroit Tigers. The Orioles gave Tejada, a 27-year-old shortstop, the longest and most lucrative contract any free agent has received so far this off-season.

"We're tickled pink," Flanagan said. "It continues the tradition of great Orioles shortstops. That's always been a cornerstone of the great Oriole tradition."

Like Cal Ripken Jr., one of those great Baltimore shortstops, Tejada is incredibly durable. He has played in 594 straight games. Tejada averaged just over 30 homers and 116 R.B.I. the last four seasons; the A's reached the postseason each year.

"How many times do you get to add an M.V.P.-type player to the club who wants to be there and be there for a long time?" Mazzilli said.

The Orioles would like to add two more premier players, and they seem to favor Rodriguez over Lopez. Guerrero wants an even richer contract than Tejada, perhaps seven or eight years for as much as $17 million a year. Flanagan and Jim Beattie, another Orioles vice president, were optimistic about giving Tejada some star-studded company at Camden Yards. Fern Cuza, Tejada's agent, also represents Guerrero. Rodriguez has few suitors.

"We feel it's a great first step," Beattie said. "We've got a lot of work left to get done."

There is still a lot of work to be done in the trade discussions between the Rangers and the Red Sox involving Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez. One Rangers official said Sunday that the only way the deal would happen was if Boston included a chunk of cash to offset Ramirez's contract and also added a pitcher. Byung Hyun Kim could end up as an interesting chess piece in these talks.

Rodriguez, who has seven years and $179 million left on his contract, has been lobbying for the Rangers to move him because he is tired of playing for a team that has finished in last place for three straight seasons. He has also squabbled with Manager Buck Showalter. The Rangers would love to unload Rodriguez's contract and obtain greater payroll flexibility, but the financial aspects of the discussions have resulted in numerous obstacles.

Even though the Rangers would save $81.5 million by dealing Rodriguez for Ramirez, who has $97.5 million left on his contract, they want Boston to pay at least $5 million a year toward the five years remaining on Ramirez's contract. Rodriguez desperately wants to be liberated from the Rangers and he is a superior player to Ramirez, so Texas does not believe the monetary freedom it would receive would be enough in return.

The Rangers also want a pitcher to even the talent difference between Rodriguez, the 2003 American League M.V.P. and one of the finest all-around players in baseball, and Ramirez, one of the best offensive players in the major leagues. They are keenly interested in the 24-year-old Kim.

Kim, who lost his closer's job in the postseason and is scheduled to be the fifth starter for the Red Sox, started his career with the Arizona Diamondbacks in 1999 while Showalter was manager. Showalter has told team associates that Kim, who botched two memorable save attempts during the 2001 World Series against the Yankees, is valuable because of his versatility and his vast repertory. Kim would have a bigger role with the Rangers than with the Red Sox.

Kim, who was 8-5 with a 3.18 earned run average and 16 saves last season for the Red Sox, made $3.25 million. He is eligible for arbitration this season, so he will probably earn $4 million to $5 million. With Pedro Martínez, Schilling, Derek Lowe and Tim Wakefield, the Red Sox will pay more than $38 million for their first four starters, and they would be amenable to dealing Kim.

If the Red Sox were willing to include Kim in a Rodriguez-for-Ramirez trade, they would eliminate Kim's salary from their payroll.

Tickled Pink!!!! ... ... Wow, I never thought I would hear those words come out of a man.

I've said all along that if the Rangers want to add Kim in to make up the 'talent difference" then that's fine by me because I want Williamson as #5 SP anyways. However, paying 5 million on top of that is absurd and won't happen. Texas needs to dump A Rod and based on this Tejada nonsense, Boston is likely to dump Nomar so both teams need this deal, however the Sox still have Nomar this season so it's Texas who needs it more at this moment.



I lcould live with the scenario eventhough Kapler sucks but Aubry Huff can be had relatively cheap so I'd MUCH rather have him patrolling Left then Kapler because Huff has more pop in his bat and is younger. Gabe isnt going to make up for the offense we'd lose by dumping Nomar and Manny but as stat guru's have shown, the combo of A Rod/Huff equals Nomar/Manny and could even surpass it so Huff is my first choice and it isn't a far fetched pipe dream like Vlad so Kapler would be my last option. Kim and Manny for A Rod straight up no cash is how I see the deal going down.

Well, someone tell those Rangers officials to start drawing straws for who is going to tell Buck Showalter that he's going to have to put up with ARod for the rest of his time in Texas.

That's just crazy talk. It's the Rangers, not the Red Sox who are up against it here. Let's see. Manny wants to stay in Boston. Nomar wants to stay in Boston. ARod wants to come to Boston. Ooops. Who's got the problem if the deal isn't made?

Call their bluff and walk away from the table JH. It's Manny for ARod straight up or its no deal.

I guess we poor Sox fans will just have to get by with Manny Ramirez in left and Nomar Garciaparra at short for a while. Oh well.

Theo's added Schilling and Foulke and Francona to a 95-win Grady Little team and all he really needs now is a decent second baseman, a couple of cheapo arms for pitching depth and some bench players. Works for me.

Let's see how the Rangers relationship with ARod develops over the course of the next year when ARod realizes that if the Rangers hadn't screwed up his deal by being crazy greedy, he'd be on a great team instead of a lousy one. Should be big fun.

That is classic. Truer words have never been spoken.

Gabe Kapler in left?

OPS+ is a great single number by which to measure offensive performance. An OPS+ of 100 is "average" for any given season. Last year, Manny had an OPS+ of 158. Kapler had an OPS+ of 86. Do the math.

See the problem I see with Manny/A Rod straight up is we don't maximize our savings, but by simply placing in Kim we save millions more on this deal. I don't have an exact figure but Manny-Nomar-Kim+A Rod= somewhere around 11-13 million dollars and we still have all the pitching we need, and somewhere between 11-13, perhaps 15 on the highest estimate to get a "cheap" 2nd baseman (whoever is the odd man out in B'more) and a good LF. Adding Kim helps the Sox and Rangers. We clear more money, Tex gets a good, young pitcher like they want. Do the deal.

After the J.D. Drew trade (possible OF option) and Hicks's persistent demands, I expect the Sox to cool on the thought of A-Rod at least a little bit, if only because the market to replace Manny in LF is drying up.

A-Rod and Player X is not equal to Manny and Nomar if Player X is less than well above-average. I know what A-Rod could mean to this town in character and to the Sox in endorsements, but dealing two 95th percentile players for one 99th percentile player with no significant financial benefit to making the move... I'm just no longer convinced A-Rod is the right way to go.

Which is why we get Aubry Huff. I don't know his OPS+ but I can almost guarentee its above 100

Last year, Huff had an OPS+ of 139.....but, SSSSHHHHHH!!!!....don't tell the Devil Rays!

Gee, then why don't we just throw in Pedro and Damon and Foulke and Schilling too because THEY make a lot of money. Why don't we just give them the entire roster and then we'll "maximize" our savings to the tune of $125 million?

You don't just throw away a terrific pitcher like Kim, who by the way is going to be a much better pitcher than Andy Pettitte, for example, if he isn't already to get rid of his salary.

Now Ramiro Mendoza, on the other hand.......

Does anyone out there actully not want this deal to go threw? at first glance i was estatic about an arod manny deal.. but now i think about it is it really worth it. its scares me to see how they pitch around barry bonds in san fran so why wouldnt they do it to arod in boston .. how sure are we that ortiz millar and mullear are going to have as good of seasons as they did last year. its scares me to think that a problem may occur if they cant provide them with protection and there goes the whole score 10 runs a game. i kno you prolly think well there pitching is nasty and that will cover there ass but it is a game of scoring runs id much rather c nomar with manny behind him

If I'm Theo and JWH, I give this potential A-Rod deal a rest until Hicks comes to his senses and realizes it ain't gonna happen the way he wants it to. I try to negotiate with Nomar and Tellem but I don't get backed into a corner and overspend on Nomar. If I don't resign him by spring then I let him play out 2004 and offer him arbitration next winter. If he decides to leave for greener pastures fine, the Sox get draft picks but I don't think he sees 15-17M in arbitration unless he has a monster season. Next winter I look into the Manny for A-Rod trade again and see what it takes to get it done. Maybe by then, after being cash strapped once again, Hicks will lower his demands for the Sox having to throw in $5M per year for Manny.

Your telling me if I said right now do you want Andy Pettite or BK Kim, salaries are insignifigant take one or the other you'd take Kim? You my friend are alone I think. I'd rather have Williamson as a #5 then Kim because it looks to me like Kim can't cut it in big market Boston. However, if Tex was willing to take Mendoza (which I doubt they are, but if they were) holy sh-t do I jump at that deal. Manny/Mendoza for A Rod. In a NY minute I pull the trigger. Tex in all likelyhood doesn't want Mendoza, they want Kim because 1) he has more upside then Mendoza 2)Showalter managed him in Ari and likes him 3) I'm reasonably sure he's younger then Mendoza. I wouldn't mind keeping Kim but for the purpose of payroll cutting I'd give him to the Rangers before I'd give Williamson to someone. No need to be absurd talking about Schilling, Pedro D Lowe and Foulke either because I know you aren't trying to compare any of those guys to Kim. As for Damon, if we got rid of him we'd be better off because I don't care what stats or facts you may have but he is simply not worth 8 mill.

As for your Aubry Huff OPS+ Good God, let's get this guy if/when this Manny/A Rod deal goes down.

Mueller, Millar and Ortiz will not repeat their stats from last season and certainly will not surpass them. Ortiz is solid and Fenway suits him well but Mueller and Millar will not repeat there seasons. I think they'll still be productive but not like last season. I don't expect them to be and I don't think anyone should. As for pitching around A Rod, good point and Nomar/Manny prevent that from happening but looking to the future, signing Nomar to a "big" deal assures us of losing more players then if we get A Rod. Plus if Aubry Huff comes along then the pitching around could be a moot point because Huff would provide security in the next slot.

Earlier, there was speculation that Alex Rodriguez could decline the options for the final three years of his contract in an effort to make his contract more flexible. Why would not the opposite hold true? He could go to the Ranger's owner and tell him that he was going to exercise those option years right now. How would Hicks respond when learning that the contract would definitely cost him another $81 million?

Look. Perhaps you're mistaking 'Kim' for Mendoza. If that's the case, you can just skip to the next post whilst I rant.

Kim is not dead money. Kim is not a 'Hey look at me! I'm in the game with an ERA of 7!' kind of guy. Just because your perception of him is that (I can assure you now that your perception doesn't factor the column 'Grady Little', which destroys many a good player), doesn't mean he is.

Here are some statistics (oh, hmm, just because I feel like it and it won't help my case at all):

Pitcher A: Win Shares 2003: 11.64
Pitcher B: Win Shares 2003: 10.76
Pitcher C: Win Shares 2003: 8.07
Pitchers D + E + F Win Shares 2003 (Combined): 7.71 + 4.54 + 2.59 = 14.84

Pitcher G: Win Shares 2003: 10.84
Pitcher H: Win Shares 2003: 9.64
Pitcher I: Win Shares 2003: 11.55
Pitcher J: Win Shares 2003: 7.82

Guess the pitchers. I doubt anyone will get more than one right without cheating.

More stats for the same pitchers:
Pitcher A: ERA+: 105
Pitcher B: ERA+: 142
Pitcher C: ERA+: 133
Pitcher D + E + F: ERA+: N/A

Pitcher G: ERA+: 142
Pitcher H: ERA+: 96
Pitcher I: ERA+: 115
Pitcher J: ERA+: 98

And just in case you were wondering, Mendoza:
WS: .23, ERA+: 70

The fact of the matter is that Grady Little screwed Kim over. To take him out in the playoffs for Embree is something that does not work for anyone's confidence. Of course, some will argue that 'whenever Kim came out to pitch, I immediately tensed up'. Tell me you didn't tense up when Lowe came on to pitch in the first game of the Oakland series. Tell me you didn't tense up whenever Embree came out throwing only fastballs. And I'll tell you you're lying.

This is true but I thought the almighty union had a problem with A Rod 'devaluing' his contract by immediately voiding the last 3 years of the deal. It'd be nice to see how Hicks would react to A Rod saying this, but I don't think it would happen. How would the Sox react knowing the deal would cost another 81 million though?

[QUOTE]Plus if Aubry Huff comes along then the pitching around could be a mott point because Huff would provide security in the next slot.

What is the deal with aubry huff i havnt heard anything on him really, you have any information?

I would imagine that the contract is written, so that the option can only be picked up during the last guaranteed year.

None of those stats you threw out have anything to do with the pressure of playing here. I really could care less about Kim from Arizona, what I see is Kim from Boston who didn't just make me tense up, he made me keep a cross on my lap and recite Bible passages. Did I get tense with Lowe in to pitch in the DS, uh huh but not nearly as tense as when Kim came in to pitch. I just don't have confidence in him as a Red Sox. Do I think he has potential? Absolutely. Would I trade him and his 4-5 mill contract he has coming. Absolutely. Would I rather have Williamson who played better under pressure? (See answers to the 2 previous questions.) Williamson had serious family issues, his wife and kid nearly died. After that was over look at the playoffs. ALDS 0.00 ERA. ALCS 3 saves. Kim in my opinion is a small market superstar and a big market bust. Juts an opinion and none of us are Theo or JH so really we can go back and forth all night but stats won't change my mind on Kim's ability to preform under pressure (refer to WS vs Yanks when he was a Diamondback) Was Grady there then to "screw him over?"

No he's not. Kim is a better pitcher right now.


This position is laughable. Compare their numbers once both reached Boston last year.

The position is laughable? What off field problems did Kim have. What off field problems did Williamson have?

By the way, Kim's ERA+ jumped 17 points after arriving in Boston.

Edit: And here's something else that's interesting...

Pre-arrival in Boston, Williamson saved 21 games for Cincinatti. He blew 5 saves. At the time, his son had not been given birth to, his wife not hospitalized. There are no off-field problems to lay blame on. That's a save percentage of 80.7. Fenway is a more of a hitter's park than Cincinatti. Kim arrived at Boston, saved 16 and blew 3. That's a save percentage of 84.2%. Hmmmm...

Hmmmmm....I say.