so i can tell every1 at the water cooler 2marro with confidence that arod manny is going to happen 100% and not feel stuipid in a couple days ? HELLLLya

Yeah OCJ you have definitely been saying it all along....you never went back and forth and you always stuck with your guns that the trade was going to happen...

pretty cool....

I don't think that outing his sources would be a smart thing to do. Sources generally like to remain anonymous when it comes to things of this nature.


____________________________________________________________________

Finally, confirmation that it is done! Wooooohooooo!

New Target: Vlad the Implaler

You can do it Theo!

So long Nomar! I don't know why everyone is so happy about this. I'm pretty ticked off. Maybe I'll change my mind once all the wheeling and dealing is done, but it won't seem right seeing Nomar in Dodger Blue. But hey, I guess that's what he really wanted, so what are ya gonna do?

Kurt

That would make my millenium
phone call:

Cashman:"Ehh Mr Steinbrenner, some guy from Montreal is on the phone cursing us out in French saying Nick Johnson is on a greyhound back to NY."

(A greyhound because the Exspos can't afford a plane ticket

Steinbrenner:"Oh great so we get him back and keep Vasquez. Haha let's see that Theo kid top that"

Cashman:"No sir they said Vasquez is coming back to Montreal"

Steinbrenner:"WHAAAAAAT. That's it Cashman, your extended for 3 more years. Now fetch me my bat so we can beat Vasquez to a pulp and make it an even deal still"

Ooo I'd love it.




Huff is my absolute dream replacement (aside from Vlad) to be in the OF next season instead of Manny. Keep Perez and spin off BK Kim to TB. He will preform well for them in the small market. Besides I've heard the D'Rays can't even afford Huff anymore so they have to get him somewhere or they'll see him walk next season so why not jump at the chance to grab this kid he's great. If Williamson or Perez must be dealt then I can live with it, but I personally want to keep both of them and try to send Kim to TB for Huff.

As for the A Rod/Manny deal looking like it's FINALLY finished. All I can say is thank Heavens it's over. They could make a made for TV movie about this trade once it's done. What a soap opera. But to Theo's credit, what a great job he did considering all the controversy and distractions this trade brought. Since Manny was placed on waivers up until today Theo got Schilling and Foulke and apparently added a good 2b platoon man to the roster as well. Can't give that kid enough credit. I like the A Rod trade because it became very clear after Tejada signed that the Sox would either have 2 huge contracts with Manny/Nomar or one huge contract in A Rod. They did the right thing. If Huff is added to the roster I will have a permenant grin on my face until opening day because this would be the greatest off season in Sox history.

In early April, Jim Gray broke into the Syracuse/Kansas championship game to announce Saddam Hussein had been captured. Today, Jim Gray cannot claim to have had that "scoop" ahead of everyone else.

Circle June 11th, 12th and 13th on the calendar. Nomar's Dodgers at Fenway!

Nomar + Manny > ARod. I hope this is just another internet rumor. If it is true, I'm not going to be happy if they had to give up Williamson in the deal as well. Sounds like a step back to me.

HOLD UP!?!?!?

You mean we're giving Nomar away!?!?!

Use your head... include a left-fielder and whoever we get for Nomar in your little assessment of the deal.

Does anyone understand the deal is not Nomar and Manny for A Rod are we all wearing blinders? We will have a good OF to replace Manny (hopefully Huff) and pitching in return for Nomar. Pitching is the ultimate trading chip because everybody wants it but not many have it to spare.

I thought we were going to have to trade that pitching for aubrey... so there is no pitching unless im missing sumthing

Um -- not to rain on everyone's parade but we shouldn't be celebrating anything yet. Let's see what the Sox get for Nomar. DD doesn't know who the players are yet so you really can't approve/disapprove yet.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty. I will reserve judgment until I see who they get to replace Manny in left.

Ok what if behind the scenes the Sox tried endlessly to come to terms to a deal with Nomar...but there was absolutely no common ground....now because of this the Sox realized that the post 2004 Sox were in trouble....So they then realize that they have a guy that they don't care for his actions (Manny) and can trade him for the best shortstop in baseball and one of the best in the history of the game, Arod.

So ok we do not know the rest of the deal, but we do know that Manny and Nomar won't be traded TOGETHER for Arod. Everyone says Nomar +Manny>Arod, but of course that is the case. They are not being traded for Arod together....It would be Manny for Arod. The Nomar trade would be a different deal altogether...ok of course getting Arod means Nomar is on his way out the door....but we can use that 11.5 million for an OF/2B....or whatever we need that we didn't get in the trade with Nomar.

Some people are making it seem that this trade is awful....hello we arent getting Heathcliff Slocumb here people, we are getting a definite future hall of famer.

edit: oh I don't want to sound mean with my statements....I just felt that was best way to explain my thoughts....If I did sound mean then I apologize...please keep in mind that this is finals time for me....so no sleep. Just trust Theo.....he wouldn't screw our team up....

So let me see if I've got this straight, you're celebrating this potential trade despite NOT knowing who we'd get as an OF replacement. (Hopefully Huff?) how do you think we'd pry Huff out of Tampa Bay? LA has NO outfielders I'd want for Nomar.



Nomar + Manny > ARod - FACT.

..yes, but Nomar/Manny = $35m Arod at $25m(might be less) plus a $5m LF saves you at least $5m plus whatever we get for Nomar.

This really is a good move. What if Nomar walked after next year?

This team does not need huge production with their LF, with the addition of Schills and Foulke, they will not need to score as many runs as last year.

Three trades that make sense for all teams.

1. Bos gets ARod from Texas.
---Texas gets Ramirez, Lester, from Boston.

2. Bos gets Odalis Perez, Joel Hanrahan, Chin-Feng Chen from LA.
---LA gets Garciaparra from Boston.

3. Boston gets Magglio Ordonez from ChiSox.
---ChiSox get Odalis Perez, BH Kim, Chin-Feng Chen from Bos.

Boston Line up
CF Damon
3B Mueller
SS ARod
RF Ordonez
DH Ortiz
1B Millar
LF Nixon
C Varitek
2B Belliard

Pitchers
Martinez
Schilling
Lowe
Wakefield
Arroyo
Foulke
Embree
Williamson
Timlin
Malaska
Mendoza

White Sox Line up
CF Harris
2B Jimenez
DH Thomas
LF Lee
1B Konerko
RF Chen
SS Valentin
3B Crede
C Olivio

Pitchers
Loaiza
Buehrle
Perez
Garland
Schoeneweis
Koch
Marte
Wunsch
Kim
Glover

Dodgers Line up
CF Roberts
C Lo Duca
SS Garciaparra
RF Green
LF Encarnacion
1B Ventura
3B Beltre
2B Cora
P

Pitchers
Nomo
Dreifort
Ishii
Weaver
Jackson
Gagne
Martin
Mota
Alvarez
Shuey

Garciaparra can be signed to a $15 million / 5 year contract which LA was paying Kevin Brown yearly anyway. I know someone will say they just picked up Weaver's contract for $6 million in 04 and $9 million in 05. They are saving $9 million for not re-signing B. Jordan, Paul Quantrill and the 2.6 million from the Weaver/Brown trade. They can use that money to help pay for Juan Encarnacion and Garciaparra.

Boston can offer Ordonez the money offering Garciaparra which was $48 million / 4 Years which I think he would take.

Your thoughts?

The bottom line, as of now anyways, is that we don't know the specifics of the trade. We only know, from most incoming reports, that the trade will take place.

Manny is the one involved in the Texas A-Rod deal. Nomar is going somewhere else for something else. We're getting back two main parts here, not just one. Is another player equal to Nomar gonna show up? We don't know. Probably not, but we're not going to get a bag of balls for him. (Though i'd like to so we could buy Vlad, hehehe)

Well, I can't quite say I got the whole thing right -- I certainly didn't see Shilling, and Vlad is certainly not ending up in Boston -- but I read that waiver-wire thing pretty accurately back then. Actually a bunch of us Royal Rooters on the old board called this A-Rod thing pretty fast the day Manny went on waivers.

Others who saw it coming and get props include RSDD, Realitycheck, emmandre2003 and RedSoxFanLou.

Soup17 had this to say in response to my posting:



So Soup, my favorite beer is Brooklyn Lager, but I'll take a 6pack of Sam Adams.

With Everett signing with Montreal, is there any chance Brad Wilkerson might be available?...K's a ton, but is an OBP guy with pretty good defense.

Not sure if he is there for the taking but I think we are doing well with the OBP guys on the team as constituted. We need another bat to hammer in those guys on base, in my opinion. Just incase Ortiz doesn't quite duplicate this past season's numbers.

"Finally, confirmation that it is done!"

Confirmation is when they hold the press conference. People get misinformation, people change their minds. In case no one has noticed, this is a complicated and unparalleled transaction(s) that has had labryinthian twists and turns. My advice is to simply stay tuned.

tell me what the team's salary will be then I can comment. If it is over the tax threshold, it won't fly.

Now, hold on there, young feller!!

Let's not celebrate this deal until the exact terms become known. For example, if the cost of getting ARod is Manny, Kim or Williamson, a prospect and money...we should all be damned ticked off.

I'm hoping I'm not ticked off.

As for K'man's trade proposal, I like it. ARod/Ordonez is as good, if not better, than Nomar/Ramirez. The big risk would be Ordonez' possibly leaving after the season, but as for 2004 we're in great shape.

very good point...


I have heard that we are giving Lester and possibly another minor leaguer...


I lose Jon Lester as a prospect tracker

Oh well, still got Malaska.

Can I track A-Rod if he ever goes on rehab???

well nomar + manny = 31 million

arod + maggs = 39 million

subtract BK (5 mil) kim and/or Williamson (2.5 mil) puts

39 mil - 5 mil - 2.5 is 32.5 million, not too shappy

also remember John Burkett's 5.5 million is off the books and Todd Walkers 3.5 million

edit: math wrong

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

How seriously should we be taking these guys?

After 2 days tending to my sick 2-year-old, I am heartened to get back in the action to find out that the A-Rod deal is done, if we can believe the Dirt Dog. And I think we can, given his track record.

This offseason is like a dream sequence so far. Actually, there's really been NO offseason whatsoever. The only slowdown so far has been the World Series, where teams pretty much can't do anything anyway. I remember when the Duke signed Pedro, and I was pumped. But almost every day of this offseason -- starting with the most ballsy maneuver in the history of GM-dom, putting Manny on waivers -- has been better than that great day.

Assuming A-Rod's our SS, I am ecstatic! I will miss Nomar immensely, and Manny is an assassin of a hitter. But A-Rod is in another class altogether. And I'm confident Theo and the braintrust will get value for Nomar and work something out for LF and/or 2b with whatever he gets in return.

The key here is our pitching. I hope we don't trade Williamson or Kim. We need to keep those chips for the trading deadline. Plus, I'm a huge Williamson fan and think he got a raw deal from RSN last year. His head was nowhere near the game. BK, however, has no excuse like that and should be outta here by August for a bench bat or one of the other Sox needs.

Rock on Theo!

Considering that since I've been reading it, the site has never been wrong about any prediction, big or small, I'd say you might want to think about the possibility of seeing A-Rod come to Boston.

I think I would rather see Nomar dealt to Anaheim for a Washburn/ Krod or Donnelly package.

Reasons:
1. Washburn is a good lefty. Despite his down year in 2003, I think he is a better pitcher than O Perez or even a Pettitte for that matter. The Sox currently lack a good lefty in the rotation, especially one who has had some success against the MFY.

2. Washburn would allow you to flip Derek Lowe. I know what you're thinking but consider that his agent is Scott "F*cking" Boras who always takes his free agents to market. There would be no home town discount.

3. A deal with L.A. would likely bring some prospects in addition to Perez. Prospects are nice but proven MLB talent is better. I'll take Krod or Donnelly in lieu of an Edwin Jackson.

-------------------------------------------------------

Here is the tentative payroll. I would expect that whoever is landed for Nomar would be about $6MM in salary. For the time being, I penciled in Perez / Washburn with the expectation that they would be traded for someone earning roughly the same amount.


2004
Player
1 Mueller $2,100,000
2 Arod $21,000,000
3 2b Platoon 1 $1,000,000
4 2b Platoon 2 $750,000
5 Millar $2,650,000
6 Ortiz $3,250,000
7 Varitek $6,700,000
8 Mirabelli $1,100,000
9 LF $650,000
10 Damon $8,000,000
11 Nixon $5,500,000
12 Martinez $17,500,000
13 Shilling $12,000,000
14 Lowe $4,500,000
15 Wakefield $4,350,000
16 Arroyo $325,000
17 Kim $4,500,000
18 Embree $2,750,000
19 Williamson $2,500,000
20 Timlin $2,700,000
21 Mendoza $3,600,000
22 Foulke $7,000,000
23 Jackson $900,000
24 Perez / Washburn $6,500,000
25 Util $450,000

Totals $122,275,000

Bold = projected arbitration salary


These are real salary numbers, not cap #'s

don't forget to add Foulke's $7 mil and Schilling's $12 mil

edit: this is what I meant to do

Another cheap LF option...Why not just keep Chen when trading Nomar? Then send Kim for a 2B, while Bellhorn backs up at all the IF positions?

yes but if you hadn't done the trade you'd still have the 31 million the manny and nomar plus schilling and foulke.

i think if you trade for Maggs, it means the end of johnny damon (another 8 million). the sox seem to think they can get a CF who does the same as Damon for less. which might be right

whos there availible at centerfield ... i cant think of any 1 who is up to damons ability hitting wise avaliable ... give me ur thoughts?

Maggs would be a poor man's Manny according to his stats for the last 5 years. And he would definately be an upgrade defensively. But I think Theo may choose to see the non-tenders first and see if he can snag another sleeper, a la Ortiz, Mueller, and Millar. Theo may find his LF/RF there without trading anyone. Then again, would they need to drop salary after all the trades are done. This tension will be here until January.

But we are no doubt going into '04 with a World Series team.

Absolutely!! I haven't been this excited since the '70s. This team, if they bullpen works out, will be tough to beat. Although I am scared with what Baltimore is doing. They have no pitching, but will hit like crazy.

This is very Ricky Henderson of me to be quoting myself, but notice how this projected payroll falls nicely inline with the threshold for the competative balance tax.

I realize I calculated real salaries as opposed to average annual, but this should abe a nice proxy of where the Sox stand.

Any guesses on if Williamson was part of the package?

" The Red Sox were working on a deal that would send reliever Scott Williamson to the Cardinals for Marquis"

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/7495221.htm

If so it seems like a large price to pay to get rid of Manny

Hidalgo No thanks. Slower than Ramirez.
Jenkins No thanks, at 8 or 9 per not worth the injury risk.

Way I see it, You make the Trade for AROD which now gives you leverage.
If Teams want Nomar start the bidding. If the don't offer legit Players in return, worse case scenario, you have a very good LF or 2B.


IF OPerez is the pitcher? You gotta get Beltre Chen of or Mota. Beltre was rushed, kid is only 23 or 24. Chen is older, has power, from the Team 1 boys is very coachable.


If Nomar is worth only OPerez? I'd hate to see what Jeter is worth.

What about the addition of Schlling and Foulke and raises for Nixon, Varitek, etc. and a new deal for Ortiz?

Hey Valmoose,

Are there #'s that you can post? I'd be curious to see the scale to get an idea of how much better one guy is over the other.

I'm shocked at Alomar. He's done. No bat, no glove. He lost it fast!

Love to see Perez, Chen, and maybe one more low-minors prospect. Then see if Chen can produce in LF, and choose between Kim and Perez for your 5th starter, trading the other for a 2B or bench help if Bellhorn can hold the fort.

Very interesting things still to come this off-season.

you seriously would take perze and chen over huff?

I'm still trying to figure out why everyone seems so down on Orlando Hudson....

If we were to get A-Rod, Hudson and a good prospect for Manny, Nomar, Lester and Kim, I'd be very happy.

Hudson is cheap and it could very well give us the best overall middle infield in the game... Both offensively and on defense.

Nomar is gone - unless he gets a Jeter contract, and I'd rather pay A-Rod at his current figures, than Nomar at 18 million.

No, but that isn't the point.

The point is to get the best player in baseball--
who happens to play Nomar's position,
And to save money at it.

What they get for Nomar should be part of filling holes
in LF and/or 2B.

But it has to be less money value to justify the overall trading.

The Dodgers are great benefactors of all this.
Sitting in the right place at the right time.

Espn has Walker signing with Texas once this goes down.

The Rangers, meanwhile, actually postponed their departure from the winter meetings Monday to negotiate a quick, tentative two-year contract with Todd Walker to play second base once this trade goes down. They then would move Michael Young to shortstop.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...yson&id=1687013

[QUOTE=Cambridge,Dec 15 2003, 07:48 PM]"Finally, confirmation that it is done!"

Confirmation is when they hold the press conference. People get misinformation, people change their minds. In case no one has noticed, this is a complicated and unparalleled transaction(s) that has had labryinthian twists and turns. My advice is to simply stay tuned.[/QUOTE

GooD ADVICE

Yo! Yo Mismo!

Go over to baseballmusings.com and check out the whole thing for yourself. He's got the numbers for all positions. Interesting stuff. I don't know how to configure those charts here.

Guess who's the worst fielding regular center fielder in the game?

BERNIE!!!!!!!

No, but I don't think its very realistic to think we will get Huff.