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Dirt Dog
QUOTE(OilCan Jolmy @ Dec 16 2003, 10:07 PM)
Well "breaking a story" is not quite the same as taking an either-or scenario and being the first to make the call.

Example: Everyone knew Foulke was going to either Boston or Oakland. Everyone knows A-Rod might be coming to Boston.

A true scoop was the Saurbeck trade, believe it or not, because it meant RSDD had found a story that no one had reported prior.

So to say DD "scooped" the A-Rod deal isn't really right.

Spare me Jolmy. I had this trade 99% done when the world had it dead. Why are more than half your posts about me? I'm not playing the game pal. Save it.
Nuf Ced
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 16 2003, 10:32 PM)
Guys, can someone help me real quick. I'm a new member (as of yesterday) and it seems every time I post, or even read to the bottom of a page, I have to hit refresh for the new posts to appear. Does the page automatically update itself? What is going on here?

The page won't refresh itself because it assumes you are reading just hit view new posts or refresh the topic you are on sometimes when you do a refresh it has jumped to the next page you can see at bottom if there are new pages

did that make any sense? unsure.gif
Curts K'man
QUOTE(Theo-logist78 @ Dec 16 2003, 10:16 PM)
A rumor, and I do stress the word rumor, on the Sox ESPN board said the MLBPA rejected the restructured deal.

Didn't they do it in the Mo Vaughn contract when he was traded from the angels to the mets? I believe so.
MainerSoxFan
DD...any information on the union meeting? Its seems to me this was already approved they just needed to sign the paperwork. So I don't know about these rumors of the player's union rejecting the contract.
Jonnyboy
QUOTE(Theo-logist78 @ Dec 16 2003, 10:29 PM)
QUOTE(nufced @ Dec 16 2003, 10:23 PM)
a poster on SoSH says ESPN reported at halftime of the bowl game that the union said no dice....

ut oh

unsure.gif


http://pub208.ezboard.com/fsonsofsamhornbo...=2053&stop=2054

I wouldn't worry, I'm willing to bet he saw it where I did.

It would plastered all over the place by now if it were true.

Where else did u s it .. i cant find it anywhere
OilCan Jolmy
What kind of world is it where a trade in which both teams, players and management want to happen is held up by a freakin' union?

Abysmal. Why don't they run off to appeal a coke-head's suspension or something.
Nuf Ced
just moved on the NY Times wire

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/17/sports/b...all/17BASE.html

December 17, 2003
BASEBALL ANALYSIS
For Texas and Boston, Trade Becomes a Must
By JACK CURRY

BaseballAnalysis



The dalliance between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers about a trade featuring Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez switched to a serious dialogue over a month ago. The discussion about swapping the two highest-paid players in baseball was so delicate that the owners of both teams elbowed the general managers aside to handle the talks. Now, after all the time invested, it would be disastrous for both teams if the multimillionaires failed to trade places.

An official from one of the teams said the potential deal, though complicated, was likely to happen soon. The main principals desperately need it to happen. There has been so much speculation about Rodriguez's relocating to Boston, about Ramirez's loafing away and about Nomar Garciaparra's being jettisoned to free up Boston's shortstop position that, if the talks collapsed, both clubs might have to put Dr. Phil on the payroll.

There were more indications that the Rodriguez saga was inching toward a resolution last night as Tom Hicks, the Rangers' owner, released a statement saying that the negotiations were at a "sensitive point" and that the team would not comment on them. It is doubtful the Rangers would have even offered this progress report if the conversations had stalled. And The Associated Press reported that Rodriguez and Red Sox General Manager Theo Epstein met with an official from the players' union, presumably to talk about ways of restructuring his mammoth contract.

The Rangers realize it would be awkward for Rodriguez to return to their clubhouse, be a believable leader and be embraced by their dwindling core of fans. Rodriguez, who has a no-trade clause, is tired of finishing last with the Rangers, dislikes Manager Buck Showalter and has been working the phones like a solicitor to try to force a change of his baseball address.

If Hicks cannot reach an agreement with the Boston owner John Henry, how will the Rangers spin Rodriguez's continuing presence in Texas as a positive? O.K., we do not mind paying you $25 million a year, even though you would rather be 1,800 miles away at Fenway Park.

Rodriguez is the premier player in baseball and could end up as one of the best players ever, but his relationship with Hicks has fallen apart and several baseball officials said a divorce was the most practical solution at this stage.

The same is true for Garciaparra and the Red Sox. Funny that Garciaparra, who has had more rules than the White House for when, how and with whom he would do interviews, called a Boston radio station during his honeymoon last week and expressed his desire to stay with the Red Sox.

That call, coming after his agent criticized the Red Sox and while the Red Sox surged forward in pursuit of Rodriguez, fits under the heading of learning how to say hello when it is time to say goodbye.

Of course, one of the trickier aspects of the Rodriguez story is Boston's ability to agree with the Rangers on a trade while simultaneously finding a new home for Garciaparra, maybe with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, spoke of how precise Boston's timing had to be and how gigantic an error the Red Sox would make if they completed one trade and whiffed on the other. Going one for two in trades would be a fiasco because it would leave the Red Sox with two shortstops, or no shortstops.

Unlike Rodriguez and Garciaparra, Ramirez is so oblivious that he could probably return to Boston next season and be unfazed that the team first put him on irrevocable waivers, then feverishly tried to get the Rangers to accept the $97.5 million left on his contract. Although the Rangers would save $81.5 million in a Rodriguez-Ramirez deal because Rodriguez has $179 million left on his contract, they still want about $25 million more from Boston and a pitcher, probably Byung Hyun Kim, before they accept the lethal slugger.

If it were not for Ramirez and his onerous contract, these talks probably would not even be happening. It's unlikely the Red Sox would be interested in simply replacing Garciaparra with Rodriguez at such a huge increase in cost. But acquiring the polished prince of baseball and shedding Ramirez, the aloof, one-dimensional left fielder, at the same time — well, that is appealing.

Because the Red Sox came so close to silencing the Yankees and advancing to the World Series in October, and because they have gone on to bolster their pitching staff with Curt Schilling and closer Keith Foulke, it can be argued that Boston does not need to do any more, that it really doesn't need Rodriguez. After all, with Garciaparra and Ramirez in the middle of the 2003 lineup, the Red Sox scored 961 runs and set the major league record for total bases.

Still, Rodriguez (.298 average, 47 homers, 118 runs batted in and a .396 on-base percentage in 2003) would be an upgrade over Garciaparra (.301, 28, 105, .345) because he is a better power hitter and a superior defensive player. And while Ramirez's absence would create a hole in the middle of the order, the Red Sox added reasonably priced players like David Ortiz, Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar to the lineup last season, and all of them flourished offensively. They probably figure they can follow that approach again and secure a more-than-capable left fielder.

As Hicks said, the negotiations are at a sensitive stage. From Rodriguez to Hicks to Henry, everyone intimately involved with these discussions wants this monstrous trade to finally happen. They want it to happen because, essentially, they need it to happen, too.
bambam4479
Yes the Union allowed for Vaughn to restructure his contract to include less $$$ because it included a stronger no trade clause.
Dirt Dog
QUOTE(MainerSoxFan @ Dec 16 2003, 10:38 PM)
DD...any information on the union meeting? Its seems to me this was already approved they just needed to sign the paperwork. So I don't know about these rumors of the player's union rejecting the contract.

All Systems Go MSF. No worries. Just formalization today per my understanding of the situation.
OilCan Jolmy
QUOTE(Dirt Dog @ Dec 16 2003, 10:35 PM)
QUOTE(OilCan Jolmy @ Dec 16 2003, 10:07 PM)
Well "breaking a story" is not quite the same as taking an either-or scenario and being the first to make the call.

Example:  Everyone knew Foulke was going to either Boston or Oakland.  Everyone knows A-Rod might be coming to Boston.

A true scoop was the Saurbeck trade, believe it or not, because it meant RSDD had found a story that no one had reported prior.

So to say DD "scooped" the A-Rod deal isn't really right.

Spare me Jolmy. I had this trade 99% done when the world had it dead. Why are more than half your posts about me? I'm not playing the game pal. Save it.


And there he is folks!! I love that guy. More angry posts, DD! Maybe Brygo can get you going again, I'm not so good at it.

99% of the world is not Peter Gammons, btw.
onesoxyladee
QUOTE(nufced @ Dec 16 2003, 10:35 PM)
The page won't refresh itself because it assumes you are reading  just hit view new posts or refresh the topic you are on  sometimes when you do a refresh it has jumped to the next page  you can see at bottom if there are new pages

did that make any sense? unsure.gif

Thanks! It does make sense, I just thought there would be a more efficient way. I really enjoy the site and all the posts, but do not many people post here? It seems like it takes a few minutes for a new post to appear? wink.gif
Rustjive
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 16 2003, 10:40 PM)
QUOTE(nufced @ Dec 16 2003, 10:35 PM)
The page won't refresh itself because it assumes you are reading   just hit view new posts or refresh the topic you are on   sometimes when you do a refresh it has jumped to the next page  you can see at bottom if there are new pages

did that make any sense? unsure.gif

Thanks! It does make sense, I just thought there would be a more efficient way. I really enjoy the site and all the posts, but do not many people post here? It seems like it takes a few minutes for a new post to appear? wink.gif

We're insane, so we post a lot, but not that much. Gotta have something of substance to say, you know?

Although there are those who post a lot of garbage...mclusky comes to mind, just a lot of angry drivel. wink.gif I'm just kidding with you mclusky..
JimDevlin
There's way too much dissing of Derek Jeter going on here this evening.

You folks better be careful, or he'll don his CAPTAIN INTANGIBLES superhero outfit and do something to you that you will only perceive!

JD
JohntheBaptist
From Rotoworld:

QUOTE
Alex Rodriguez, Red Sox owner John Henry and GM Theo Epstein met with the MLBPA today regarding the trade that would send the A-Rod to Boston.
The Red Sox are trying to do something about the final years of A-Rod's contract, but they need to work with the players association in order to reach an agreement. ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting that the Rodriguez-for-Manny Ramirez deal could be completed tomorrow


it looks like the deal could be done tomorrow? im not seeing ANYTHING else about MLBPA rejecting an offer, and even if they did, that doesnt kill it by any means.
Kutcher
Millar doesn't bs because he's not in the union and won't get bitched at by them... since he had the audacity to be a replacement player.
Rustjive
QUOTE(JimDevlin @ Dec 16 2003, 10:44 PM)
There's way too much dissing of Derek Jeter going on here this evening.

You folks better be careful, or he'll don his CAPTAIN INTANGIBLES superhero outfit and do something to you that you will only perceive!

JD

And too much dissing of SoSH, and too much dissing of DD, and too much dissing of ESPN, and too much dissing of J. Lo....

...wait a sec...

I guess the world just gets into a dour mood whenever the freaking Players' Association holds you up...
Cluso
QUOTE(JohntheBaptist @ Dec 16 2003, 10:44 PM)
From Rotoworld:

QUOTE
Alex Rodriguez, Red Sox owner John Henry and GM Theo Epstein met with the MLBPA today regarding the trade that would send the A-Rod to Boston.
The Red Sox are trying to do something about the final years of A-Rod's contract, but they need to work with the players association in order to reach an agreement. ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting that the Rodriguez-for-Manny Ramirez deal could be completed tomorrow


it looks like the deal could be done tomorrow? im not seeing ANYTHING else about MLBPA rejecting an offer, and even if they did, that doesnt kill it by any means.

[QUOTE]

good to hear...i would have assumed they could throw a wrench in the works
vvac35
QUOTE(JimDevlin @ Dec 16 2003, 10:44 PM)
There's way too much dissing of Derek Jeter going on here this evening.

You folks better be careful, or he'll don his CAPTAIN INTANGIBLES superhero outfit and do something to you that you will only perceive!

JD

rolleyes.gif

Funniest thing I've seen all day...
cmcgill
The union can't "reject" the restructuring a players contract. They can piss and moan about it, very loudly, but they have no legal authority to say "You can't do that". I know there's some language in the CBA about not devaluing a contract, but there are easily ways to lower the dollar amount, but provide compensation of another kind. I think we all know that this ownership/leadership team is creative enough to make it work.
tkwilly
The latest post by Hicks is that this will be completed by the end of this week. This is really getting stupid now for how can the Union possibly allow Nomar to return to the Sox and ARod to Texas after all that has been said by the parties. This is not good for baseball and the Union knows it. They will have to find a way for ARod to structure his contract to satisfy Hicks. They can make it work for a dozen applies if they want, like I said its now getting stupid.
KritikalMass
First off the "Union" is not in the game of saying "nope this won't work, sorry Alex better luck next time". It does not work that way. What they are there to do is make sure that his contract is not going to be "defaced" and devauled. They are there to give Theo and A-Rod the parameters in which they can work. That does not mean that they won't step in and crack a big stick if they feel the player is getting the short end of the baseball bat.

I have been involved in many contract re-workings in the tech industry and although this is baseball they still have 2 very similar characteristics driving them. 1- they are more about each sides lawyers and their views of interpretation and 2 they are about living in and stretching the grey areas.

By the way I know there are a lot of knowledgable fans on SoSH but have you read some of the posts there??? It is not like they ALL are particularly well versed in the knowledge of baseball and life in general. Great site but come on people get real they have as many Rejects as any other board closed membership or not. Now the just have it to themselves wink.gif
Curts K'man
Dirt Dog,

Who do you think will be the starting LF next year? What names are you hearing?
Kutcher
As if we needed ANOTHER reason to hate the player's union... just a miserable group of humans...
onesoxyladee
Whether the contract in restructured or not, Theo and the Trio will find some creative way to make this trade happen. I'm sure it's pretty much done. Whether they send young pitchers in lieu of $$$, or find other ways to restructure the contract, it will get done. Theo and Henry have done almost everything right to this point. Being a fan of the Red Sox, one has every reason to be pessimistic. However, I can't help but be optimistic when it comes to the Sox brass. They're too smart to let this one go. I think they will make it happen, at a resonable cost, no matter what. Too many people, including the players (because I don't believe for a second that Nomar really wants to be here) want this trade to happen. After the pain we suffered this October, they can't put our poor broken hearts through another traumatic loss. It would be too cruel!
Rustjive
QUOTE
First off the "Union" is not in the game of saying "nope this won't work, sorry Alex better luck next time". It does not work that way. What they are there to do is make sure that his contract is not going to be "defaced" and devauled. They are there to give Theo and A-Rod the parameters in which they can work. That does not mean that they won't step in and crack a big stick if they feel the player is getting the short end of the baseball bat.

I have been involved in many contract re-workings in the tech industry and although this is baseball they still have 2 very similar characteristics driving them. 1- they are more about each sides lawyers and their views of interpretation and 2 they are about living in and stretching the grey areas.

By the way I know there are a lot of knowledgable fans on SoSH but have you read some of the posts there??? It is not like they ALL are particularly well versed in the knowledge of baseball and life in general. Great site but come on people get real they have as many Rejects as any other board closed membership or not. Now the just have it to themselves 


Yup.

As for SoSH, EV's posts are great, but people like PSF definately bring the site down... laugh.gif

Man, I'm doing a lot of joking tonight. warren.gif
JimDevlin
QUOTE(nufced @ Dec 16 2003, 10:39 PM)
just moved on the NY Times wire

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/17/sports/b...all/17BASE.html

December 17, 2003
BASEBALL ANALYSIS
For Texas and Boston, Trade Becomes a Must
By JACK CURRY

BaseballAnalysis



The dalliance between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers about a trade featuring Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez switched to a serious dialogue over a month ago. The discussion about swapping the two highest-paid players in baseball was so delicate that the owners of both teams elbowed the general managers aside to handle the talks. Now, after all the time invested, it would be disastrous for both teams if the multimillionaires failed to trade places.

An official from one of the teams said the potential deal, though complicated, was likely to happen soon. The main principals desperately need it to happen. There has been so much speculation about Rodriguez's relocating to Boston, about Ramirez's loafing away and about Nomar Garciaparra's being jettisoned to free up Boston's shortstop position that, if the talks collapsed, both clubs might have to put Dr. Phil on the payroll.

There were more indications that the Rodriguez saga was inching toward a resolution last night as Tom Hicks, the Rangers' owner, released a statement saying that the negotiations were at a "sensitive point" and that the team would not comment on them.   (italics added)

No comment from Hicks or the Rangers? That would be a first ... eyes.gif

JD
mclusky
QUOTE(OilCan Jolmy @ Dec 16 2003, 10:40 PM)
Typical sarcastic nonsense.

Quit baiting, Jolmy, it's not becoming. Just give credit where credit is due.

He stood by his source even while every mainstream media outlet was reporting it was dead or next to it. If he just fabricated bullshit, no one would care about his site. Everyone would just get a good laugh and ignore it. But because he was right on this, he is getting crap from people. It's ridiculous and petty. The next time you break news on here will be the first, BtW.
VAsoxfan
QUOTE(Rustjive @ Dec 16 2003, 10:55 PM)
QUOTE
First off the "Union" is not in the game of saying "nope this won't work, sorry Alex better luck next time". It does not work that way. What they are there to do is make sure that his contract is not going to be "defaced" and devauled. They are there to give Theo and A-Rod the parameters in which they can work. That does not mean that they won't step in and crack a big stick if they feel the player is getting the short end of the baseball bat.

I have been involved in many contract re-workings in the tech industry and although this is baseball they still have 2 very similar characteristics driving them. 1- they are more about each sides lawyers and their views of interpretation and 2 they are about living in and stretching the grey areas.

By the way I know there are a lot of knowledgable fans on SoSH but have you read some of the posts there??? It is not like they ALL are particularly well versed in the knowledge of baseball and life in general. Great site but come on people get real they have as many Rejects as any other board closed membership or not. Now the just have it to themselves 


Yup.

As for SoSH, EV's posts are great, but people like PSF definately bring the site down... laugh.gif

Man, I'm doing a lot of joking tonight. warren.gif

explain to me how Schilling got on, and 'approved', at SoSH at 2:00am during the trade negotiations.
PSF
QUOTE(Rustjive @ Dec 16 2003, 10:55 PM)
As for SoSH, EV's posts are great, but people like PSF definately bring the site down... laugh.gif

It is no secret that I do indeed suck.
chowder35
using John Henry's name i think
onesoxyladee
QUOTE(VAsoxfan @ Dec 16 2003, 11:02 PM)
explain to me how Schilling got on, and 'approved', at SoSH at 2:00am during the trade negotiations.

I asked myself the same question. It took a lot of writing and torture to be allowed into SOSH. Schilling just "browses some Sox websites" and chats with fans. I don't get it. You either need to be highly recommended by a member, or write an email and "promote yourself." How did CS join so quick. Even if he emailed them, like they would believe him, or get back to him in time....i wonder.... B)
OilCan Jolmy
QUOTE(mclusky @ Dec 16 2003, 11:00 PM)
QUOTE(OilCan Jolmy @ Dec 16 2003, 10:40 PM)
Typical sarcastic nonsense.

Quit baiting, Jolmy, it's not becoming. Just give credit where credit is due.

He stood by his source even while every mainstream media outlet was reporting it was dead or next to it. If he just fabricated bullshit, no one would care about his site. Everyone would just get a good laugh and ignore it. But because he was right on this, he is getting crap from people. It's ridiculous and petty. The next time you break news on here will be the first, BtW.


Dude, I gave DD credit, I just said making a call on an either-or trade is not technically a "scoop", it's a "prediction". I was just pointing out semantics. I'm already on record as being a fan of his, don't know why everyone's so snippy tonight. Must be the cold winter weather. Oh wait, I'm in LA... laugh.gif
PSF
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 16 2003, 11:07 PM)
I asked myself the same question. It took a lot of writing and torture to be allowed into SOSH. Schilling just "browses some Sox websites" and chats with fans. I don't get it. You either need to be highly recommended by a member, or write an email and "promote yourself." How did CS join so quick. Even if he emailed them, like they would believe him, or get back to him in time....i wonder.... B)

Schilling was on SoSH chat that first night, which is accesible to anybody with an EZBoard account.

He was made a member around midmorning the next day (I was working at home that day, so I was following along) after it was confirmed that he was most likely Schilling.
Cluso
Everyone is on edge...this particular Hot Stove season is a hand-wringing, anxiety-laden exercise in masochism. Keep finding myself with 6 windows open to 6 sites...refresh-refresh-refresh...(dog looks at me like i forgot to feed him...oh d#$%...I DID forget!...BRB)
JohntheBaptist
OK, i broke down and added to the avatar. enjoy.
VAsoxfan
Don't know the right spot for this...


http://bojack.org/mt-arc/000334.html
thanman2
tongue.gif
QUOTE
The next time you break news on here will be the first, BtW.


The next time he breaks wind, however, will not be the first. laugh.gif

And to the flood of newbies who feel compelled to believe any fragment of a rumor posted here or at ESPN.com or relayed by someone's friend who was watching something...STOP IT! You are hereby ordered to think before posting, under penalty of more grumpiness from myself and mclusky. mad.gif

Exactly ONE poster here has inside sources, that being RSDD. If anyone else posts something and does NOT post a link to a reputable news source, IGNORE THEM. Please do not start a storm of one-line, misspelled (yes you, JonnyBoy) no-thought posts like a bunch of headless chickens!

The ARod-Manny saga has been one of the most nerve-wracking, news-starved stretches in recent Sox history...I appreciate that everyone is antsy and wants resolution, one way or the other. But let's try to hold this board to a minimum standard of thought and discourse, and leave the brainless one-liners and rumor mongering at espn.com.

OK, everybody hates me now. But I had to get it off my chest.
Curts K'man
A-Rod's exit seems imminent
Shortstop, Red Sox working to restructure his deal, complete trade


09:24 PM CST on Tuesday, December 16, 2003

By KEN DALEYand EVAN GRANT / The Dallas Morning News

ARLINGTON – The trade of Alex Rodriguez to Boston seemed imminent Tuesday night, just as the first signs appeared that a fractured Rangers clubhouse would greet the shortstop's increasingly unlikely return.

Players union deputy chief Gene Orza confirmed to the Associated Press that he met Tuesday in New York with Rodriguez and Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein.

A major league official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said commissioner Bud Selig has granted a 72-hour window, believed to be expiring Thursday morning, for Rodriguez and the Red Sox to complete direct negotiations aimed at restructuring the shortstop's record $252 million contract.


Looks like we might be hearing something tomorrow or thursday by noon.
chowder35
here we go again with the 72 hour windows. and on the last day will they give everyone a heart attack and ask for 24 hours more, like schilling. I stand by friday at 4
mclusky
QUOTE(JohntheBaptist @ Dec 16 2003, 11:17 PM)
OK, i broke down and added to the avatar.  enjoy.



"What am I, chopped liver?"
RedSoxAnni
QUOTE
If anyone else posts something and does NOT post a link to a reputable news source, IGNORE THEM. Please do not start a storm of one-line, misspelled (yes you, JonnyBoy) no-thought posts like a bunch of headless chickens!

The ARod-Manny saga has been one of the most nerve-wracking, news-starved stretches in recent Sox history...I appreciate that everyone is antsy and wants resolution, one way or the other. But let's try to hold this board to a minimum standard of thought and discourse, and leave the brainless one-liners and rumor mongering at espn.com.



Ah....thank you, Thanman! If one of the moderators had said this, we'd be accused of being Nazis!

I think once the chat option is added, we may lose some of the one-line posts that have been cluttering up the threads.



Anni
Cluso
"Exactly ONE poster here has inside sources, that being RSDD. If anyone else posts something and does NOT post a link to a reputable news source, IGNORE THEM."

ummm...that's a bit omniscient...

others 'could' have sources...

DD doesn't post his sources (nor would i expect him to)...



now...back to the regular programming...
bambam4479
OK ESPN just said at the end of the 11 SC that Gene Orza has presented the Sox/Arod with a restructured contract that fits the union's approval. Looks like all that is left is to dot the i's and cross the t's. That was the only thing they said as they were closing the show so I don't have a link.
JohntheBaptist
ESPN just said something about how tomorrow Orza will present a restructured deal approved by MLBPA, and see if it, in final, meets ARod and Boston's approval- and if they "sign off on it" it could "set the dominoes in motion." No Gasbag attached as "reporting..." but theyve repeated it a number of times on ESPNews. Don't know if this is specifically anything too too new, but it is interesting. It may clear the way for things to be finalized tomorrow afternoon.
RedSoxAnni
ESPN.com reporting the same thing

Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 official, confirmed that the meeting took place but would not comment on its substance.


According to ESPN's Karl Ravech, Orza will present the Red Sox and Rodriguez with a restructured deal that is amenable to the union. If both parties sign off on the proposed restructuring, the dominoes might fall.



The Red Sox website is also reporting that the meeting took place today. Theo and A-Rod were present.

Anni
MargoAdamsLoveChild
Count me in with the people craving some standard of rational discourse. This is fun, because it's fast and it's furious. But if you can't add something intelligent (or at least coherently passionate) save it for AOL IMs or the chat room we should have at some point in the future. That being said, there is certainly room for some crafty witticisms. Just not 17 straight.

For veteran posters who exhibit "RR role model" qualities, please see rustjive, thanman2, Oil Can Jolmy, jacklamabe, or any of the barstaff. (I'm forgetting many, but it's late.)

Back to the topic ...

If Manny/ARod goes down, AP is reporting this in Ben Walker's baseball notes:

If the Red Sox get Rodriguez, there's been speculation they would then trade Nomar Garciaparra. Early whispers had him going to either the Dodgers or Angels, although there were indications those teams may not actively seek him.
Instead, there was talk the Red Sox might package Garciaparra with pitchers Scott Williamson and Byung-Hyun Kim and send him to the Chicago White Sox for star outfielder Magglio Ordonez.


I mean, where do they get this stuff? Theo would need a security detail to make it out of Boston alive! If they don't get equal value, they need to get at least the proverbial .50 on the dollar for Nomar, depending on other deals they have lined up. Just horrible. I can't believe this is a real possibility.
JohntheBaptist
QUOTE
I mean, where do they get this stuff? Theo would need a security detail to make it out of Boston alive! If they don't get equal value, they need to get at least the proverbial .50 on the dollar for Nomar, depending on other deals they have lined up. Just horrible. I can't believe this is a real possibility.


Wow, thats ridiculous. Hes at nearly 15 mill, plus is in a walk year (isnt that why, at least in part, were trading Nomar?) But ya, lets throw in our two best and most versatile available arms. Thatd be ridiculous. Id only be on board with this if it was accompanied by an extremely frugal extension for Maggs and ONLY kim or willy. even then- i dunno.
Luckydog
This is a bad deal and I hope it doesn't happen. Getting A-Rod is good but losing manny and Nomar doesn't make good baseball sense. I don't care about the finances -- that's the owners problem. If you tell me we get better by losing Manny and Nomar you are full of it. No matter who they get to play left the line-up is not as good as Nomar and Manny batting 3-4. Manny is a buffoon and I got that. I don't care -- he's good for 35+ HR, .300 and 120 RBIs EVERY YEAR. Nomar is the most consistent and popular player since YAZ. This trade is a BIG mistake --
BoSoxGirl75
everyone go to this thread --> thread and vote when you think the press conference will be....winner gets bragging rights! you have till 10AM, I believe JTB set it up.

and I've decided not to respond to people who think this is a bad trade anymore...but how could it be a bad trade when we don't know what we are getting in return for Nomar?! mad.gif

I will stop now because it will make me very angry if I have to explalin anything anymore....there are 85 pages here...
JohntheBaptist
...and even thogh its ridiculous, I just cant shake the awesomeness of an A-Rod/ Maggs 3-4 spot in our order. All other things being equal, heres how the lineup would look-

Damon
Mueller
Rodriguez
Ordonez
Ortiz
Millar
Nixon
Varitek
Bellhorn/ other

not too bad. jesus, and with our pitching, were easily the class of baseball. damn. heres some interesting info on Magglio:

-Due $14.5 million next year, FA after
-played 154 games in RF, 4 in CF and DH'd in 2 last year.
-His Rng, as listed in the Bill James Handbook, was 2.19, good for 9th in MLB. this is interesting, and I think should be taken with a grain of salt, as he fell behind other such defensive luminaries as John Van Der Wal, Roger Cedeno and Bobby Higginson. His Fielding Pct. was .994, he had 7 OF assts, 316 PO and 2 E.
-Ordonez's AVG/ OBP/ SLG since 2000:
2000: .315/ .371/ .546
2001: .305/ .382/ .533
2002: .320/ .381/ .597
2003: .317/ .380/ .546
-Ordonez's WS since 2000, by year
22, 25, 26, 23
- has a 15% chance of hitting 500 HRs, and a 15% chance of collecting 3000 hits. As of right now, his percentage stands at 0% for hitting 600 HRs. (ARod, BTW, has aa 34% chance of hitting 800 HRs. 800. Just think about that.)
- Was in the top ten in 2003 in following offensive categories:

BA (.317),
SLG (.546),
H (192),
2B (46),
TB (331),
BA vs RHP (.317),
Home BA (.324),
BA close & late (.425),
SLG vs. LHP(.622),
Best BPS on OutZ (.417)(OutZ stands for "Pitches outside the strike zone" and BPS= BA plus SLG)
Best OPS vs. fastballs (1.029)
Best OPS vs. Curveballs (1.050)
OPS (.962)
OPS Second Half (.972)

Magglio is also going from a pronounced HR hitting park to a more doubles/ triples park. Comparing park indices:

CODE
Fenway  HR   2B   3B
       92   114   119
Comiskey  HR   2B   3B
         134   96   101

basically, this means that at Fenway, one is 14% more likely to hit a double than the average ballpark.

just some interesting info i thought id pass along. seeing as Maggs is, talentwise, the most desirable option.
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