Well, that's just it. Obviously A Rod gets more from the licensing deals than someone like Lou Merloni. But like you point out, some guys do opt out of that agreement and are able to market themselves. Bonds is one example from MLB, Arrington is another. (Hence his appearence on TLC's "While You Were Out." Ummm....I've said too much).

Another consideration (and this has driven me to my closet to dig out my Sport Law text) is the MLBPA pension...not like A Rod would need it, but if he tells the union to go screw, does he lose that?

Good for Lucchino, but it kinda seems like they're throwing in the towel on the Arod deal? any thoughts?

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/APStorie.../D7VGGR3G1.html

The JWH post made it into the AP already

No way do I think they're throwing in the towel.

To those of you who aren't members and occasionally go to SOSH to see if JWH has posted anything new. It appears that they shut the door on people peeking in as you have to be a member now to view the posts.

This deal is baseball crack! Don't ever remember spending this much time trying to keep up to date on every little thing that happens. The highs, the lows... I think the Sox have become the new Oxycontin.

Larry L's comments leave an awfully bad taste in my mouth. He may be displaying his outrage in order to get some play from the Comish as others have mentioned.

Have to hope that Gammon's "dead" holds as much water as every other time he's said it was dead since the Winter Meetings.

Holding breath until this deal gets done cause' I can't imagine the team not having to dig into very deep pockets to keep Nomie happy regardless of whether he's a professional or not. I can't believe that Nomie is going to go to the table with anything but a feeling of being in a place of power.

My member name might come to fruition sooner than I hope!

*Edit - Oops...guess someone else noticed while I was typing this up!!*

Here's the thread covering that question.

redsoxmania13 went to your site, enjoyed it very much, lots of information and
list other sites for the diehard Red Sox fan! Thanks!!


Go Red Sox!!!

I Still Hate the Yankees!!

Lucky Larry's press release itself doesn't indicate that, but coupled with Henry's cryptic little message at the forum across the street leaves me feeling concerned that this deal won't happen for the first time since it was mentioned.... I guess only time will tell

An interesting side bar.....

This was on BDD-If Selig approves the restructuring and the union files a grievance to block it, the case would go to Shyam Das, baseball’s arbitrator


This what I found on this Das guy.


Arbitrator Das was born on April 18, 1944 and received a BA in History from Harvard University in 1965.

Well.....guess Im locked out of SoSh. I can understand where they are coming from though, hopefully at some point, true die hard sox fans will be able to get some access......Otherwise.....Hello to all Sox fans out there...new member here. Heres to many shared nights sweating this stuff out....aint it grand. This is really what its all about.

My take on the union issue is this....how much leverage does this give the union in future contract negotiations? In my opinion none....but it does swell some high paid special council members head. I hope the deal isnt dead....but I have an awful empty feeling in my stomach right now.....those of you who still have access to SoSH...keep us informed....and Hey DirtDog.....you da man. Keep it up!!!

I think that if the Sox want to play hardball, they might get the deal done (Hicks might cave in if we wait him out), but what about the backup plan?

If we keep Nomar, we only get a year out of him and then undoubtedly lose him, getting nothing in return. If we throw in the 5 million that Hicks wants, we get A-Rod, we get Ordonez and we have a damn good shot at winning it all. Isn't that worth the 5 million? Purely from the business side, isn't it worth it at this point? Can't they easily earn back that 5 million if this all works out?

ATTENTION

If you want to talk about SoSH being down

USE THIS TOPIC

Am I the only person who feels the players union shouldn't be involved in transactions like this?

I wonder what Larry, JH, and Theo are doing right now?

no.


Selig may take it to court (per weei)




edit- add rotoworld quote.

sitting by the phone waiting for hicks to call and say"ok....you guys win.....arod for manny straight up....lets do this deal now..."?????
lets hope the phone rings soon

I think they are either getting very drunk or are on the phone with A-Rod, the commissioner and the union trying to find out what the heck they should do.

Gawd no, we're looking at Kevin Millar the sequel!

Well, the union needs to play a role, as I posted earlier. (You probably missed it, lots of stuff going on right now). Their concern isn't A Rod, but the guys after him. Face it, A Rod is going to be fine with or without the restructured contract. But if he sets a precedent that basically says you might have to take less money to go to a team you want, it weakens the ability of the lower tier players to move around. Say, for example, a guy like Lou Merloni wants to come to the Sox in two years, but the Sox want him to restructure his deal, a la A Rod. A few million here or there don't hurt A Rod, but they do hurt Merloni.

</Devil's advocate>
EDIT: Grammar

Does anyone here think that Selig will over rule the MLBPA and
approve the trade? This would mean that this whole case would go to
arbitration but the trade would have already been done!
MLBPA would look bad if they fought against a trade that all parties
involved in, wanted to have happen. My fear, is that Selig does not
want to go up against MLBPA and lose. It would mean that the union
has more power than the commissioner. Yet, it is still my belief,
that Selig should step in and allow the trade to happen.
I, for one, say, "Let the trade happen and fight MLBPA if it comes
to that end." A-Rod is a paying member to the MLBPA and as such,
should be able to request his deal be restructured in order for him
to move on.
I am sorely reminded of the Joe Rudi and Rollie Fingers deal. I
wouldn't want a repeat of that situation, having to send A-Rod back
to Texas. Yet, Roger Clemens was able to orchestrate his deal from
Toronto to New York. So, why can't A-Rod? Why does the union have any say at all?
This deal: Manny/A-Rod/Nomar is huge. It is what all parties
involved want to have happen, Texas, Boston, A-Rod and MLB. For the
union to slam the door on one of the biggest deals in baseball is
ludicrous. JWH was right, It transcends all of baseball.
What kind of chicken should I have for dinner tonight? Hmmmm?

should the sox wait for Hicks to cave in or should we suck it up and offer to pay the extra 5 mill? i wonder what people think...

I was under the impression that the money was divided equally among the members, but according to Judy Heeter, the union's director of business affairs and licensing, certain players have "negotiated extra money from the group licensing program if their names and images were used in packaging and television commercials to promote card sets." --NY Times, November 18, 2003

Bonds did break away from group licensing program last month. This means that he would not be allowed to use major league uniforms on baseball cards, etc., but he could negotiate with the various card companies for Bonds-only card sets. There is no reason that Alex Rodriguez could not do the same.

It would be interesting to see what happened if Rodriguez quit the union, if he would be shunned as were the replacement players and umpires by their so-called colleagues.

All indications seem to be that the MLBPA fiasco is the only thing holding this deal up, which may or may not mean that said issue of monentary compensation has been resolved... but don't quote me on that

This deal has to happen. There's no way the teams can go back, and if it doesn't happen, the RS are fine. Sure, feelings will be hurt, but so what. The Sox are in the driver's seat the way I see it.

1. If the deal falls through, Nomar will play his tail off in his walk year and Manny will be Manny, meaning numbers at the plate and zilch away from the batter's box. (Yes, he's better in LF than he's given credit.) The Rangers on the other hand have a pissed off and dwindling fan base and a displeased SS not to mention a resentful clubhouse that knows #3 doesn't want to be there.

2. All this gives the Henry Quartet some time and room to posture. They can sit back and let Hicks and MLBPA sweat. If Orza and Fehr prevent this from happening, they both will look like fools. There won't be any mutiny among the rank and file because the players want to play and the Union is very very good for them. It's bad for business, however.

3. Selig will take an ever bigger hit than he did with the tied up All Star game. He will not let this happen. He's already gotten a ton of bad news this season with the gutting of the Brewers, etc. Selig will push this thing through.

4. Yes, the Henry Quartet might end up with some egg on its members' faces, but nothing that some early season wins won't clean off.

I think we Red Sox fans should sit back and watch this thing. It's exhileratingly and excruciatingly painfull to sit and and sit and sit with all this expectation, but it makes for wonderful theater and ultimately for a great baseball team playing in front of the monster.

This deal is going to work out for the Red Sox.

I mean would you rather this or the NY Mets big announcement today of the signing of John Franco???? Oy.

I think SOSH and RR are very similar.
Both have greatly increased membership since Schilling
started talking at SOSH.
SOSH has probably gotten too big.

I suggest that the RR administators invite Curt and JH to join the RR group
as well.
No sense in talking just to one now-closed group like SOSH.

They are there presumably to talk to the fans openly,
and view what the fans are thinking.

I know Curt has some reservations about the media picking up
what he has to say. But that shouldn't be the point.
The point is he is getting his unfiltered say --his direct statements
for everyone to read. Which is what he wants.
And he is getting feedback from the fans.

So, Curt and JH, why not spread your posts around a bit?

Wow...good find C_Otto. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like A Rod had negotiated extra money, given his stature as the best player in the game.

Well, Bonds isn't exactly shunned, but he simply opted out of the group licensing program--he didn't turn his back on the entire union. I'd have to think that if A Rod did take such a radical step, he's be shunned just like the strikebreakers.

This brings the saga to another 'epic' point. I've said from day 1 that this trade would make a good movie. (And since I write on my spare time) I'm already working on a "purely fictional" drama about a situation just like this one and would appreciate inputs on titles. Anyways, how can a union stand in the way of a deal? Is this insanity? I have this wretched feeling in my stomach about this entire deal. Manny/Nomar or A Rod/Ordonez, wow this smells of mini/mega conspiracy by the MLBPA. If you look at the leniancy that Mr Selig has givin us in past deals, (Millar- if you all know the controversy surrounding his contract, Shcilling-24 "extra hours", a lot of the trading deadline deals last year were somehow viewed as tainted, and now this) Maybe Steinbrenner is barking so loudly into the ears of union officials that they can't back down. I'm hoping and praying that Selig takes a stand and tells the union to ###### off. Sorry for the language but I'm so angry at what this situations become. This isn't about baseball it's politics at it's darkest hour. I can't even continue speaking about this I'm in absolute awe and astonishment at these developments. I just hope something falls into place because I see 1 option only remaining. The Sox accept the trade and A Rod's contract as is and get's screwed in the end. Take it to an arbitor after the deal and file suit against the MLBPA. I don't see A Rod leaving the union, it just isn't something I see happening. And F-CK YOU SOsH, and your over rated half assed board with a bunch of people who google search for stats and post them to appear smarter then they are. What a damn night.

anyone sleeping tonight? I'd really hate myself if the planets aligned at like 3 in the morning and the deal got done and I pulled my self away from the computer to try to sneak in a couple of hours of sleep...what are the odds that this could be hammered out in the wee hours of the night? They DO have until 5PM

It seems like those of us who would prefer that this trade not happen are a very small minority...

First, why should we let Tom Hicks off the hook for the contract he signed such a short time ago? Just because he's finally realized that baseball is a team game, and one remarkable player can't turn a team around?

Second, why should we let ARod off the hook for his end of that bargain? He willingly left a winning team for the greener ($$$) pastures of Texas...and after three straight last-place seasons has come to realize that winning is more satisfying than a few more millions?

Third, I know Manny can be infuriating, and I know Nomar doesn't talk to the press the way they'd like him to, but Manny is one of the few legitimate triple-crown threats in baseball (to be fair, ARod is one, too), and Nomar is certainly in the top ten if not top five overall players. Are ARod and Ordonez together greater than Manny and Nomar? So many people seem to think so...I for one think at best it's a tossup--why rock the boat so much for a tossup?

Fourth, come October, doesn't having ARod safely tucked away in last-place Texas scare you a lot less than facing Nomar on the White Sox in the first round?

Finally, all this talk about marketing, etc., with bringing ARod to a big market. Whenever baseball decisions are made based on marketing and merchandizing, it's a bad idea. Didn't Selig make a stink about helping small-market teams? Why work to take away one small-market team's marquee player? What has MLB done for us in thinking this way? The DH...Interleague play...Second-place teams in the World Series...Baseball in near-zero temperatures at both ends of the season...Playoff games starting at nine and ending after midnight.

The Sox didn't finish second last year because of their everyday lineup. They finished second primarily because of an unsettled bullpen and some holes in the starting rotation. The additions of Williamson, Schilling, and Foulke have gone a long way toward rectifying those problems. Let's leave this one alone and go win it all in 2004.

P.S. A big-name player...quiet but loved by the fans...always gives his all...ends up with another team because management became so enamored with other players and didn't seem to appreciate all he'd done...of course I'm talking about...Andy Pettite...hope we don't have a similar story over here.

Except it appears as if Texas and Boston have agreed on the terms of the deal, it is the MLBPA that is throwing its' weight around. If Selig, who I met once and yes he is even creepier in person, decides to go the legal route then how long would that take to resolve. I think if it came to that both JWH and Hicks would rip up the proposed trade and reformulate their respective offseason plans. I hope this all gets resolved tomorrow and we can all celebrate the newest additions to the Sox. Remember, its always darkest before dawn, keep hope alive, and any other motivational cliche that fits.

I'm so annoyed. The union sucks at life. How can they supposedly support players, when their best interest isn't being considered. What's honestly more important, a couple million dollars, or happiness? Well, to us, probably the millions. But A Rod has enough money, he could wipe his A** with hundred dollar bills for the rest of his life and he'd still have more money than he knows what to do with.

Our only hope, is that we do something regardless of the union. Re-structuring his contract is an option, not necessary. We can figure out other alternatives. The time contraints are a bit tricky now, however.

Bottom line, after all this, WE CANNOT have Nomar and Manny this year. With Tehada gone, we have no other option.

Seems to me this is becoming more and more of an Ego contest and less about what is best for a player(s) whether that player be A-Rod or Merloni.

Anyone near Fenway? I said let's send them some pizzas, beers and a big bottle of Advil. It doesn't seem like they are going to get any sleep tonight!

nomar is not in the top 10 of current players. i like him, but no way is he up there.

i say we throw in the cash and get this done, even if we all agree that we shouldn't need to.

Maybe it is just an ego contest. But I'd like to believe that the union is concerned more with protecting the interest of the entirety of their clientel, rather than their fragile egos.

Maybe the question is whether the Union should be involved BEFORE the trade is made.
I don't know why the two teams just didn't consummate the deal, and then worry
later about any restructuring.

The answer may be that Henry wanted the numbers right before he would make the deal.

But sometimes, you just have to gamble a little (did I say 'little' again?).

What the hell, John, it's like playing the stock market.

Life is too short.

Do it.

They'll pay 50 bucks for those bleacher seats.

Fenway?

They are all sitting in MLBPA offices: 12 E 49th Street, NYC. There are plenty of pizza joints in midtown.


For the record: I think that the SoSH site is a great one, and I have loved reading the posts. I've asked 2x for membership, but I haven't gotten any replies. They do a good job over there, but it's lead me to post here for the first time tonight. I need to talk with folks are experiencing this zanny-ness.

How about....



THE TRADE OF THE CENTURY: CLASS FOR AN ASS



not to mention a MFY lover ASS GRRRRR

The IRONY...if indeed the union strives to protect "Lou Merloni" type players in this instance...with Lou being on one of the teams that would benefit from this trade...

So it seems...Boston loses...Texas loses...but the average ballplayer wins...




Nauseous inducing...

it's not about $50 bleacher seats...it's about upping the price for ads on NESN. it's about getting big corporate money flowing in when they realize that this really is the year. i have no doubt that this deal will turn a profit AND make us all very happy next October.

I don't think Selig's biggest motivation for possibly sending this thing to arbitration is having Rodriguez in Boston. This is his chance to be the guy that broke the Union down a bit. MLBPA could lose a lot of credibility & power if they lose this thing via a third party.

Should they (MLBPA) suggest some minor alterations to the deal, nothing is really lost for the union . Despite popular thought, I don't see this leading to restructuring the contracts of the Lou Merlonis.

I agree with your statement, but disagree with the Union's tactics. The union does not have the authority to unilaterally disapprove the restructured plan. If contract modifications are arguably covered by a provision in the CBA, then only the arbitrator can make that determination. Like I said earlier, I hope Selig challenges the union, but for precedential reasons, I'm not sure if he will. HAVE SOME SACK SELIG!

I live so close I can see it out the window. I'm looking at it now trying to evision A Rod diving for a grounder up the middle in game 7 of the WS cementing a victory in a 1-0 13 inning win in a pitchers duel of Pedro vs Mark Prior. The only run ..... A Maglio Ordonez base hit up the middle bringing A Rod home from 2nd in the top of the 12th.

As to the who's near Fenway question....im five minutes away, anyone else? I wouldn't mind having a beer and pizza with Theo and Co.

too bad they're probably in New York - haha

Sweet Jesus, this is the most ASTONISHING development. I step away for 3 hrs. to do some studying and the world has come crumbling down. This is like Florida all over again where I went to sleep with Bush up 3000 and I woke up to near anarchy.

My (very brief) take on the incidents:

1) Henry, with his post, clearly was venting that he doesn't think he can get this done. Just yesterday he was imploring us to have faith. C'Mon JWH, don't fail us now.

2) Lucchino, with his press release, clearly was placing pressure on the union and trying to win the hearts and minds. His appeal to individual freedoms is a pretty transparent attempt at that

3) Before we all lose our heads, remember that a deal can still be struck

4) Why don't the Sox just take ARod as is?

5) Does anyone know Orza's relationship with SiaS?

6) Selig will definitely get involved and approve this trade because A) he wants to turn his legacy around and this is the best opportunity he'll get and B) he hates the union and C) from a political standpoint it's better to piss off the union than 3 teams and the most marketable player in the game.

7) Nomar is gone anyway. Either that or the Sox will have to let him go next year. The 2004 on-field product is better already, but all of the controversy surrounding this is going to really put a dent in the Mojo.

8) On the SG's levels of losing, if the Sox lose this one, it's definitely STOMACH PUNCH.

only problem with that is the hit would come in the bottom of the twelve and would be a walk off. but i'll take a dive in the top of the 12th and the hit in the bottom

Now call me naive, but I do not see how the Player's Union has any right to reject this deal between AROD and the Sox. I understand they do not want the precedent of a player reducing the value of his contract. However AROD is not a typical player, he is waiving his protections. Not only does he want to be traded to Boston, he is willing to change his contract to do so.

The idea that this could be used as a precedent for teams negotiating with the lower tier players is absurd. The reason AROD is taking less $ is because he wants 1) to get out of texas, 2) to get to Boston, and 3) go to a contender. It seems that the chance to win a world series is a clear benefit for a player to recieve.

Arod is waiving both his no trade clause and agreeing to renegotiate his contract, two things that the teams involved could NOT force him to do. AROD is the person with leverage in this deal, not the Sox and the Rangers, if anything the Union should endorse AROD's action because it shows the power that players have gained as a result of the Unions past actions, i.e. the no trade clause.

This is clearly a power play by the Union, whos heads feel the need to take a whack at a player they feel has too much power. Unless you are bowing and scrapping to the Union bosses, they could care less what is best for the individual player and are more concerned with their own power and influence.

If this deal is blocked by Gene Orza and the Union it is abolutely absurd, and JHW and the boys should civil suit vs. the Union.

I hope Selig forces the Union to back down, but I am not going to be holding my breath.

If anyone is doubting the power of the trade, just check out what the Celts did tonight. Boston's on a roll and it better not end now...

Please, make this happen Selig. Never make fun of you again...


....Well...

Just make it happen...

...loved seeing Walker miss that 3...oh yessss...