If I were a betting man...

If the Alex Rodriguez contract goes to arbitration, I think it is highly likely the trade will be approved.

In reference to the collective bargaining agreement, Rob Manfred (baseball's top labor lawyer) has been quoted as having said that "the basic agreement contains a rule that requires any special covenant to be an actual or potential benefit to the player."

In laymen's terms: Any change to A-rod's contract must benefit A-Rod now, or potentially in the future. Apart from the simple fact that it's CLEARLY a legal benefit since the benefactor, A-Rod, wants it to happen so he can play for Boston, the proposed changes also grant him the significant benefit of permitting him to enter free agency sooner should he choose to do so. In light of both of the above, it would be difficult to look at this from an objective, legal interpretive standpoint as would an impartial adjudicator, and reach a conclusion that there is no benefit or potential benefit inuring to A-Rod as a result of the restructured contract.

If Selig approves it and the Players' Union appeals, my feeling is that A-Rod will be playing for Boston (as will Ordonez) and we'll all wish Nomar well. (I'll wish Manny well too!) B)

Are the Sox still goign to get Magglio if the A-rod trade goes down, whatr is that thing on dirtdog's site about it falling through and the mariners stepping in?

I'm packing it in for the night, but I leave you all with this- be positive. Its said we never are in RSN, so lets keep positive, and that cant hurt. I REALLY hope this gets done, and i REALLY hope this gets done before I wake up tomorrow. SO we'll see. I think that a group of people, all of whom want the same thing, can work it out.

your fearless leader has been talking to Harvard Law types

Bottom line

This is not like Ford decides to cut Fred's pay and move him against his will to Buffalo

My gawd, the players union is all powerful but if ARod himself wants to sign off on the deal, WHAT IS THE BEEF????

The more I talk about this to people who know the law. the union WILL LOSE
this.

The thing that hurts to say but needs to be realized is that the Red Sox are not going to give nomar a $14-$15 million extention, so they need to get compensation and locking up the best shortstop is baseball is't that bad,

why do these lawyers say that the Union will lose? i'm interested?

I would think it would have something to do with the Union trying to force a player and his agent into something that they dont want to do (staying in Texas) and the fact that the Union is there to Protect its players not keep them from being happy. But who knows what all the legal stuff is involved in there....I'm sure ESPN is trying hard to find some Union experts as we speak .......


Schillondahill

This is just wrong. You should be ashamed.

I don't know the legal angles that will decide this, but having followed each excruciating detail, doesn't it seem as if this either settles amongst all parties or gets arbitrated by Budman? He can't have his friend JWH walking the plank like this, not because of Tom Hicks, that's for sure.

The pool for everybody is pissed in at this point and no one wants to jump back in. Tejada's deal was the last of quite a few nails in Nomar's box. ARod dissed the fans in TX like you read about, and even his being best in the game doesn't help him win the fans over when they're finishing last again. And as unfortunate as it might be, you can't go back into the ship when you've started to walk the plank.

Actually, I'm not sure that losing arbitration doesn't end up getting best deal for Sox. I'm assuming here that the issue getting arbitrated is "can
you restructure the contract in the way Sox want?". If arbitrator finds for the union, then JWH has his 'man in the back room' to force Hicks' hand. He goes to Hicks and says, "the only way I'm doing this (which is, by the way, your one chance to be (i) rid of the $$ and (ii) to avoid the ire of all 5 fans that follow your team for driving too hard of a bargain and letting Arod, who just pissed all over
them, rot in hell) is straight up because the bad man said I couldn't get any relief from ARod's contract".

Hicks then has the ultimate decision and I can't believe he won't blink at the last
minute. Maybe fallback is a dramatically lesser player (prospect?), not $$. He should be willing to take that to save face but get this deal done. Not doing so would make even Chan Ho Park look like a good move.

The question at hand is if ARod benefits from the trade. He will have problems, because his personal taxes suffer going from TX to MA, but there should be argument that if he can get postseason exposure (can't get it in TX), and more sponsoship endorsements (NESN, whatever new england has to offer...bob's, etc.) he'll benefit, then it'll be ok.

If the argument is IF ARod will benefit from the deal, there is no contest. He'll be on a contending team, in a more attentive market, where more sponsorship opportunities are available, plus his personality will shine through.

Everyone benefits.... and the law can contest that, even if the union benefit is not on paper.

From CBS Sportsline:

So this is the way it's gonna be.

The Players' Association is going to be small-minded and inflexible.

Owners from Boston and Texas are going to do their best to construct an alligator-filled moat between Alex Rodriguez and the union.

The proposed A-Rod trade is going to crawl into another day, Thursday, toward the 5 p.m. ET deadline imposed by Commissioner Bud Selig.

And the chance remains that we could be heading toward some sort of Baseball Armageddon by the end of the business Thursday, in which, conceivably:


Selig and his office might overrule the union and approve the trade, after which ...

Boston would send Nomar Garciaparra to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Magglio Ordonez, a deal that sources Wednesday confirmed to SportsLine.com is in place if the A-Rod trade goes down (Boston reliever Scott Williamson also could be headed to the White Sox), which would also mean ...

Los Angeles general manager Dan Evans, a.k.a. The Man Who Couldn't Make a Deal, would extend his streak of failing to snare an impact acquisition (Brian Giles last summer, Richie Sexson and Derrek Lee this winter and, in one stunning spell of incompetence, both Garciaparra and Ordonez this week, as both have been offered to the Dodgers and Evans has a real chance at going 0-for-2 in one trade). But maybe he could get a second chance somewhere down the line because ...

A Commissioner's Office-Players' Union dispute likely would wind up before an arbiter, who theoretically could nullify the original A-Rod/Manny Ramirez trade by siding with the union, which in a wild, worst-case scenario could mean ...

That just like neighborhood kids after a pickup game, everybody would have to return to their original homes. And wouldn't A-Rod and Boston be thrilled with the $252 Million Man shipping back to Texas after a couple of weeks as Red Sox property? Maybe then the backward-falling dominoes would even cause Boston to be forced to return Ordonez to the White Sox, and Evans would smile in Los Angeles while revisiting Ordonez and ... nah, couldn't happen.
And to think, Miss America probably just wants world peace for Christmas.

Man, it takes me less time to put up Christmas lights than it's taken to figure out L'Affaire de A-Rod, and how pathetic is that? I don't know about you, but I usually begin stringing holiday lights along about July, get delayed for a few weeks when multiple strands won't work, spend a few more days cursing and throwing things, replace a few strands at the store, start in again, only to discover that half of a strand works and the other half doesn't, curse and swear some more ...

And still, I usually get them up by, oh, Dec. 23 or so.

This Boston-Texas deal, it sure seems like Larry Lucchino and John Henry, two of the Red Sox owners, and Tom Hicks, the Rangers' owner, were meeting over tea and crumpets at the La Jolla Beach and Tennis club to discuss A-Rod back on Mother's Day.

It's gone from interesting to intriguing to maddening to, now, just plain ugly.

"It is a sad day when the Players' Association thwarts the will of its members," Lucchino said in a statement released by the Red Sox on Wednesday night. "The Players' Association asserts that it supports individual negotiations, freedom of choice, and player mobility. However, in this high-profile instance, their action contradicts this and is contrary to the desires of the player."

Added Hicks in a statement released by the Rangers within minutes of the Boston release: "The Rangers and Red Sox have agreed to the players involved in this potential transaction and were working toward agreement on the financial consideration. Given the impending deadline imposed by the Office of the Commissioner, the actions of the Players' Association may unfortunately determine this issue."


Alex Rodriguez is stuck in limbo while the union and baseball haggle over the restructuring of his contract.(AP)
I'll tell you how A-Rod, who wants to play in Boston like Angelina Jolie once wanted Billy Bob Thornton, can end this mess immediately (and without even wearing a vial of Pedro Martinez's blood around his neck):

He can resign from the union, give back his dues, and tell Don Fehr and Co. to keep their precious licensing money because he's got $252 million reasons not to need it (OK, perhaps a few less reasons if he agrees to allow Boston to restructure his contract using Wal-Mart lawyers rather than Gucci lawyers).

It's doable, you know. Unheard of, perhaps, but doable. Players don't sign lifetime contracts in blood with the union. Sure, it would get ugly if A-Rod walked away from the union, but he's got enough cache that if he threatened to do so, the union might just relent and approve a restructured contract no matter what the terms.

Besides, if A-Rod gave some of his back, maybe some of the poor suckers still in the free-agent line -- Vladimir Guerrero, Pudge Rodriguez, Greg Maddux -- could get more. And wouldn't that give the union chill bumps all over?

I wrote more than a week ago that this deal will get done, and despite Wednesday's snag and the various opinions that go with it, I see no reason to change gears now.

This remains a deal that all of the major players -- A-Rod, Boston and Texas -- want done. When everyone wants the same thing around a negotiating table, they usually find a way to make it happen.

Furthermore, there's been enough hanky panky already to make any movie set starring Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger look like an innocent ol' second-grade dance at St. Anne's. Baseball has tampering rules, you know. And in this instance, over the past month, they haven't been broken, they've been smashed. Henry has been posting messages about this deal on a Red Sox fan website, for crying out loud.

Yes, we've reached the point where if this trade doesn't happen, it will be a David Wells-sized embarrassment for the game. Not only will it give ballclubs carte blanche to brazenly discuss future deals in public, but how, exactly, are Rodriguez, Ramirez, Garciaparra and Ordonez supposed to return to their current teams given this current climate?

"We appreciate the flexibility and determination Alex and Cynthia Rodriguez have shown in their effort to move to Boston and the Red Sox," Lucchino said in the Sox statement Wednesday.

And you're telling me that, if the proposed trade blows up, A-Rod can go home again to Texas after all of this with no hard feelings? I don't think so.

And what about Garciaparra? You can just hear the Red Sox clubhouse attendant greeting him next spring:

"Well hello, Nomar! Welcome back to Fort Myers! Great to see you! We've got your locker right next to Manny Ramirez's ... over there next to the outhouses."

The Red Sox and Rangers each confirm that they have agreed to the players in the deal and were "working toward an agreement on the financial considerations."

So now here comes D-Day, and we can do this the easy way or the hard way. The union can reverse itself Thursday and emerge looking magnanimous -- well, as magnanimous as it can ever look -- or it can risk appearing as the devil incarnate.

The easy way or the hard way, but this is a deal gone too far down the road not to be finished off now. At this point, there are far more complications if it doesn't get done than if it does.

DD!!!

Do NOT shut down your site!

That's just what THEY (Gene "closet Yankee fan" Orza and the Player's Association) would want!

No, sir, stay around to stick it to 'em in the future. Be a pain in their side.

We need humor now more than ever.

Where am I going to be able to view "The Lucchinos" whenever I want to?

Live to fight again.

As Winston Churchill said, "Never give up!!"

Reading this site, you'd never guess that the RedSox have the best offense in baseball - one that set the major league record for slugging. The desire to get Arod has distorted our perceptions. Everyone assumes we won't be able to get an extension on Nomar. Why? So he turned down a good deal a year ago and a not as good one a month ago. If the Arod deal doesn't go through Theo has 3 months to negotiate an extension. Nomar, understandably, pays very little attention to the media. Henry has plenty of time to get refocused.

Seriously, call up Orza and harass him, I just left him a message. His cell is &^#&*(%^.

Yeah but we also had 4 career years (arguably 5 if you count Millar), and every team in our division got much better. Why stand pat? We lost last year, and now were improving.

So Theo and Co. settle and grab ARod, and work out the CWS deal (which is cake after this shite) and we all win. We need to """cowboy up and pay the money and take the hit""" - me and then see what happens. The deal will work out.... we wouldn't be sox fans if we didn't, and, honestly, why wouldn't it work out this way for us. Would you want it if we didn't fight for it, if we were "willing to fight and die for that inch" (any given sunday). This is that (sun)day, and we need to fight for it. We have a beter chance now than ever, and why not take it.

[QUOTE]Hicks then has the ultimate decision and I can't believe he won't blink at the last
minute. Maybe fallback is a dramatically lesser player (prospect?), not $$. He should be willing to take that to save face but get this deal done. Not doing so would make even Chan Ho Park look like a good move.


I think this is the key with Hicks. Here's a guy whose name is synonymous with disastrous contracts. He needs to prove to the world that he's tough at the bargaining table. Saving face is what this is about, not the booty to go with Manny. He's already saving $80M. The Sox just need to find a way to let him save face and circumvent the union stumbling blocks.

If the Sox have $14mil to pay Ordonez next year then they have the "resources" to sign Nomar to an extension when the A-Rod deal goes down. Either way, things will work out and we'll be fine

The Sox techincally wouldn't be spending 14 million for Ordonez when you weigh in that Williamson and Kim are likely to be gone in some sort of deal. That is 5 million off the 14 million for Ordonez.

You can believe that if (God Fobrid) this doesn't work out, the Sox will find it in their hearts to let by-gones be by-gones and sign Nomar @ 4yrs/$60M. Epstein already set the groundwork for this back-up plan just in case.

It feels like there's a lot of saving face and gamesmanship going on. In the end, that's probably what Orza's deal is all about. Given that the player's position (and salaries) have been sliding backwards for going on two years now, this is a chance for Orza to try to flex his muscles and show that he's in charge. But it seems like he has to allow the deal to go through in the under some condition or it will backfire on him. He'll look like the moneygrubber when everyone else is just trying to play baseball.

We get robbed if we throw in Williamson in the Ordonez deal. Williamson is willing to set-up and I wouldn't rule him out as the number 5 starter. Kim, on the other hand can go....

I appreciate siddfinch pointing our attention to the San Jose Mercury-News article regarding the Nomar-for-Ordonez trade. However, there is one big problem with the story, which casts a huge shadow of lack of credibility upon it.

The entire premise, or thesis as it were, hinges upon a quote from one source who "went so far as to say" that the deal is dead. I have a problem with only one source who does not appear to be a member of the front office of either the White Sox or the Red Sox. No other source dared to venture into that arena. Furthermore, while it's not out of the rhealm of possibility that the reporter in question picked up a phone and contacted a relevant source, it is the San Jose paper. I would venture to guess, and this is complete speculation on my part, that the source is one Billy Beane, who is legendary for using the media to his advantage and to the disadvantage to others. Another guess would be Seattle's GM Bavasi.

The Chicago Tribune White Sox reporter has no report of this nature, in fact he confirms that the offer is still on the table. Nor, does any other reporter have such a piece, as of this time. Could it be dead ... sure. But let's think about this for a minute. Why is it dead now? Sure, the Vizquel-Guillen trade is apparently dead. But how does that change the Valentin deal? If they weren't going to trade for him in this circumstance, why would they trade for him in the first place?

DISCLAIMER: Right now, this post makes complete sense to me; however, I just took my medication ... oh, about 20 or so minutes ago ... so it might not make sense a little later once it all wears off. So, with that said, if this post makes no sense at all, please feel free to tell me to enjoy my buzz and shut the f#@%k up. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy my buzz anyway and try to figure out which on the four keyboards I'm seeing right now is the correct one.

Sorry, dont think so, Ordonez is an all star and maybe the most underrated player in the game, Williamson is less valuable than Kim, if onyl because of age difference.

It always amazes me that no matter how intellectually businesses are set up and 'organized', that they run so inefficiently, with so many detracting (legal) real-life issues. My God...one would have thought that an issue like this wouldn't 'set precedent' in the year 2003. I suppose the mitigating factor is greed and power (raising their ugly heads yet again).

One might say this is 'the curse' in action...superstition at its worst...

Times like this both shape our passion for the sport and paradoxically are shaped by our passions for the sport...a strange enigmatic dynamic.

You didn't want a boring life now...did you?

No, Williamson saidhe wanted to start if he could not close and we ...kinda... signed keith foulke which is so nice, so he won't be closing anything here, o he wants out

the morning papers begin to trickle in



Selig pushing for A-Rod deal
Gene Orza, counsel for the Players' Association, deems the restructuring of Alex Rodriguez's contract as unacceptable, but Commissioner Bud Selig reportedly wants the deal to go through.

01:58 AM EST on Thursday, December 18, 2003

BY SEAN McADAM
Journal Sports Writer


BOSTON -- Just as it seemed nearing completion yesterday, the proposed mega-deal between the Red Sox and Texas Rangers involving Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez was all but killed by the refusal of the Players Association to approve a restructuring of Rodriguez' contract.

But late last night, baseball sources indicated that the trade was being brought back to life by, of all people, commissioner Bud Selig.

According to sources close to the Commissioner's office, Selig intends to step in today and attempt to broker an agreement with the players' union that would allow the trade -- terms of which have been agreed upon by the Red Sox, Rangers and Rodriguez himself -- to go through. Selig will either try to work out an acceptable compromise or, if he cannot, convince the union to reverse its decision. If he cannot, sources say he is willing to take the case to an independent arbitrator in an attempt to overturn the ruling.

The Red Sox had sought some relief from Rodriguez's record-setting pact -- a 10-year deal worth $252 million -- in an effort to make the trade more palatable and free some money for the Sox to help subsidize some of Ramirez's remaining contract, worth $97.5 million over the next five seasons. The Sox and Rodriguez had agreed on adjustments to be made to Rodriguez's contract, which has $179 million remaining.

But Gene Orza, the associate counsel for the Players Association, rejected the adjustments out of hand.

"The Association had to turn down the renegotiation of Alex Rodriguez's contract that the Red Sox proposed because it's clear it crossed the line separating 'restructuring' from 'reduction' -- and by a huge margin," Orza said in a statement. "We did suggest an offer the club could make to Alex that would not do that, but as was its right, the club chose not to make it."

"The principle involved is a transcendent one, affecting all of Alex's fellow players. To his credit, Alex, from the outset, recognized this."

Prior to Selig's decision, sources last night indicated it was "highly unlikely" that the deal could have been resuscitated, meaning that a follow-up trade that would have sent Nomar Garciaparra and Scott Williamson to the Chicago White Sox for outfielder Magglio Ordonez and Neal Cotts -- the latter of whom would have been sent to Texas -- was also dead.

In a statement released by the Red Sox last night, an angry Larry Lucchino blasted the Players Association for its inflexibility.

Said Lucchino: "A lot of time and effort has been invested on all sides to reach this critical point, but the Players Association rejected the agreement Alex took to them and, instead, proposed radical changes.

"It is a sad day when the Players Association thwarts the will of its members. The Players Association asserts that it supports individual negotiations, freedom of choice, and player mobility. However, in this high-profile instance, their action contradicts this and is contrary to the desires of its members."

While neither the players association nor the Red Sox would specifically detail the proposal rejected by the Players Association, sources indicated the plan would have scaled back Rodriguez' guaranteed money while allowing him the option of again becoming a free-agent before the scheduled end of the contract.

While Lucchino's statement didn't directly rule out the possibility of resurrecting the deal, he hinted at the same.

"It has already been a fruitful off-season for the Red Sox," Lucchino said, "and we will continue to pursue all available avenues in our ongoing quest to improve our team as we look forward to 2004 and beyond."

Also, in an internet posting, a disappointed John Henry, the team's principal owner, cited the "astonishing ending" to the process.

If the deal isn't completed, both teams face major damage control.

The trade, which has been discussed for weeks, angered Garciaparra, whose agent bemoaned the lack of "loyalty" on the part of Red Sox management. After re-starting contract talks with Garciaparra late last week, the Sox put the discussions on hold to try to finish the blockbuster that would have directly led to Garciaparra's trade.

Rodriguez repeatedly expressed a desire to come to Boston, and now faces a return to a clubhouse that may not welcome his return. Manager Buck Showalter, who clashed with Rodriguez toward the end of the season, had been a strong advocate for the deal and outfielder Rusty Greer publicly questioned whether the other Rangers could feel comfortable having the shortstop as a teammate.



Online at: http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_...sox.30a5f1.html

That really isn't true. We'd be getting back a Manny-esque producer with the bat and a substantial upgrade in the field. Williamson is making a bit too much money and Kim is pretty much twisting in the wind.

Losing Williamson isn't as big of a deal as it might seem. Our pen will be strong this year if not for any other reason than one Keith Foulke.

Only thing that concerns me about Foulke is that in his interview last week on ESPN he seemed to be all about the money. Never really expressed his happiness going to the Sox but said something to the effect that he would have stayed in Oakland if they matched the cash. I'm sure I probably caught a bad sound bite -- let's hope Foulke lives up to the billing -- he's not exactly your prototype closer.

The only quote I heard was I had to take the money and run. Its not liek our deal was that much better than Oaklands anyway, and form what I understood he made the comment as a joke. Also he said repeatedly his wife fell in love with Boston, and he wanted to play somewhere where the fans were very passionate, like Boston.


And thats a good thing, now we have our "relief ace" since closers dont mean jack, but then again this is the wrong thread for this discussion to start now.

Wow a Shaughnessy article that I actually like? I'm quite shocked myself...

He's laboring under a delusion

He's laboring under a delusion
By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist, 12/18/2003

The strange part of it is that Gene Orza happens to be a likable fellow. He's a terrific dinner companion. He loves baseball and he knows a ton about the national pastime. Woe is the baseball trivia buff who goes one-on-one with Orza.

That said, it is also easy to sometimes detest Orza. This is one of those times.

The mighty Major League Players Association struck yesterday, killing a deal (at least temporarily) that would have made two of its members extremely happy. The PA (please don't use the word union when speaking of this group) won't let Alex Rodriguez restructure his quarter-billion dollar contract in the manner that Rodriguez and the Red Sox found agreeable. Too dangerous, said the PA. It doesn't honor the collective bargaining agreement.

So the on-again, off-again deal that would have sent A-Rod to Boston for Manny Ramirez is dead. For now. The only hope would be a successful challenge from the commissioner's office or Rodriguez going back to his Players Association chiefs (let's not forget the ever-intransigent Donald Fehr) and finding a way to make it work for the Red Sox and the association.

The Red Sox issued a statement last night and spoke of the PA "thwarting" the wishes of its members. Curt Schilling pretty much said the same thing when he spoke with the Globe's Gordon Edes. But Orza said Curt hasn't checked with the players on the executive council of the Players Association. He said those guys agree with the move to disallow Rodriguez's restructured contract.

Rubbish. When it comes to these issues, major league players know only what the Players Association tells them. Big league ballplayers (like sportswriters) are not trained in labor law. They do what the bosses tell them. There is no independent thinking. Not allowed. And when you look at the track record, why would any player disagree with the PA? Marvin Miller and Fehr have a 10,000-game winning streak over the owners.

Hats off to Schilling. This is not the first time he's invoked common sense when the Players Association has been unreasonable. He said he thinks it's outrageous for the PA to tell a member "no" when the member has worked out an agreement that will make his family happy. Schilling noted that he helps pay the salaries of Messrs. Fehr and Orza and that there would be no "ripple" effect from restructuring a contract such as A-Rod's.

Naturally, the Players Association will never see it that way. Nothing is ever enough for these guys. Its members are the most privileged, secure employees in the world, but it operates from a mind-set that the boss is always out to take advantage of the workers. The PA defends the ever-spiraling salaries, saying, "It's not our fault the owners can't control themselves," but when there is market correction, they cry collusion. It's a nifty arrangement.

The logic of the A-Rod-for-Manny deal has been that too many folks want it to happen -- therefore it will happen. This logic still applies. Even though Sox general manager Theo Epstein last night returned from New York and even though Sox CEO Larry Lucchino said that yesterday's developments "signaled the end of the matter," it's not over.

Let's not forget that Uncle Bud Selig is threatening to get involved. The Commish, the same man who delivered the Sox franchise to John W. Henry and Friends, is a big fan of this deal and has threatened to approve the restructuring, which would effectively send the matter to arbitration (and I guess we're assuming that Henry and Tom Hicks have agreed on who's paying how much to Manny if the deal is made?). If this happens, we can all enjoy the spectacle of Orza taking on the commissioner, the Red Sox, the Rangers, and two of his highest-profile members, all in the name of protecting the sanctity of the collective bargaining agreement.

Like I said, you'd like Gene if you got to know him. But at the moment, he's moved ahead of Grady Little and Danny Ainge in local unpopularity polls. He's Scrooge.

But we've learned to follow the words of Yogi and Bluto when it comes to this deal. It ain't over till it's over, and nothing is over until we say it is. Even if Gene Orza tries to impede and infuriate with the letter of the law.

Well I liked the last part I bolded.........I hope that when I wake up later today this will all be settled and we'll get Arod and Ordonez....but we don't know whats going to happen with the Sox soap opera.

The part that I liked least was Theo leaving NY...and Lucchino saying it "signaled the end of the matter"...umm maybe that was part of the press release or something and Shaughnessy snipped only that part?

I honestly just don't know...ok sleep time for me.....

From Rotoworld.com



Today is going to be one giant mess. How can it be that after all of this, we're reduced to cheering Selig and Boras on in this trade effort?

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere but according to this NYPost article the reason Orza had to leave for Florida yesterday was to attend the Bubba Trammell grievance hearing with the Yankees. Don't you think whatever Bubba Trammell is complaining about could wait while you settle the issue involving the highest paid member of the union? We're only talking about a quarter of a billion dollar contract here.

NYPost

I'm still in the dark about why BDD would hold a rally to protest what is, by all accounts, a 100% done deal. Does he not want A-Rod?

I don't see this as the apocolypse most do. Worst case scenario, we add Keith Foulke and Curt Schilling to the 2003 Red Sox and give the MFYs another run for their money. Petitioning outside Gene Orza's office and sending him a million e-mails when he's going to be out of the office all day to fight the MFYs on Bubba Trammell's behalf won't help.

If the game's in Fenway, kind of hard for the Red Sox to score in the top half of an inning

A-Rod is scheduled as a guest on the Today show...unfortunately I'm sure they will tease that segment for the first 2 and a half hours of the show, and more importantly he still won't be able to provide an answer to where he will be playing.
Also I will be subjected to watching the 'Jacko is charged with sexual assualt' footage about a dozen times...

That's gonna be a tough show for Arod to do under the circumstances - I'm sure if he was to say what he's actually thinking about Orza and company they'd have to bleep out the whole thing - This deal will still happen - My 10:03am announcement prediction is not looking good though

Has anyone else added Orza to the top of their "Person I Most Want to Punch in the Face" list?

God I hate him.

More reason for this deal to go through in this article...BostonHerald
"A baseball source close to Ordonez said that the outfielder was excited about the opportunity to play for the Red Sox. Also, the source said that when word reached Yankees headquarters on Tuesday that Ordonez was to be coming to the Red Sox, the reaction was far from positive. `They're not happy about that piece,'' said the source, indicating that the Yankees had tried to pry Ordonez away from the White Sox twice already this offseason - once before the Javier Vazquez trade from the end of last month and again last week, after the Gary Sheffield talks broke down."

Theo taking another prize away from the MFY by bringing in Ordonez.
To quote MacDonalds 'I'm Lovin' it'

"Right now, Matt, it is in the hands of the players association and the owners." A-Rod on The Today Show

Boras has convinced A-Rod not to work with the Sox on this one. Orza probably has as well. He's nothing more than a neutral third party.

SSSHHHHHH...

Seems to me that per McAdam at 2 a.m. Uncle Bud will step in and moderate the deal...he sees the $'s and wants ARod in Beantown as well...it's going to be a long day

THANK YOU MR. ORZA!!! for saving us from ourselves.

I just don't see the wisdom of the Red Sox trading:

Manny Ramirez
Nomar Garciapara
Scott Williamson
Jon Lester plus giving away
$3-5 million in cash a year for 5 years ($15 million - $25 million)

for

Alex Rodriquez
Magglio Ordonez

Especially when you consider that it won't even improve the team's OPS statistics (the most important of all offensive statistics).

A message for John, Larry, and Theo:

Just walk away. No real fan will be disappointed by your walking away from a bad deal.

Here's my last thoughts as I went to bed at 1am last night:

- another case of sox fans counting chickens before they hatched (see bambinoscurse.com from Tuesday).

- It is like the car you saw in the dealership lot, at first you didn't want really, which escalated into something you absolutley must have....it just snowballs

- we are going to be the laughingstock of the league next year, we meaning the fans. Yankee stadium: "where is arod? where is arod? he's in texas, he's in texas".

- manny will show up in Arizona in Feburary, not knowing the deal was not made in December.... :-)

A-Rod didn't say much on the Today show, except he'd love to play in the Northeast where the fans are so passionate about baseball. Also was given Rangers, Sox, Yanks caps and quickly moved Yanks cap to bottom of stack and Sox on top.

Gotta like that. B)

I can't help but notice the hysteria of some of these posts.

Let's keep in mind that all "deadlines" are completely artificial. If the deal isn't done by 5:00 today, so what? Is Hicks going to trade A-rod to someone else? No. Will A-rod cease to be available? No. Does the Commissioner have the power to order teams to complete a deal by a certain date? No.

Anything you read or hear along the lines of "There is a deadline of..." or "this deal is dead..." should be taken for what they are, negotiating ploys.

Agree on Manny showing in AZ...he'll probably forget his glove too...

Good news Mainer. This isn't Dirtdogs site. His site is bostondirtdogs.com. Hopefully nobody's shutting down this site anytime soon.

The only good thing about Nomar going to the White Sox is that I can still say I'm a Sox fan.

"It's great that you want to stick up for your man, Cambridge, but comparing him to an inner-circle Hall-of-Famer like Speaker is a losing proposition."

Mclusky: you are correct, but only based on your interpretation of what I said (which, again, appears to differ from what I did say). To repeat:

"I'm not saying Rice was better than Speaker - far from it - but Speaker only played 7 full years with us & Rice's 7 best years (even his best "seven consecutive" years) are darn good too...My point is that Rice ranks right up there with anyone offensively if longevity isn't a factor."

What don't you agree with? I stated that Speaker was better, and I said that Rice's best 7 years are impressive.

You are right I meant to say his site...I guess I messed up because the lack of sleep I been getting from this mess.