Good one Pozo, just like the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. Time will tell...

Stop with the seperation anxiety already, the trade is what's best for the team, and will get done. No one is walking away from anything, your pleas are falling on deaf ears.

Wow, I've never seen this many members signed on at once. We are getting down to the wire. Who knows what's going to happen at this point.

Someone give me a drink!

sorry about the typos. a fixed version is in the quote box.

LET IT DIE AND RESIGN NOMAR!!!!

This is my favorite part of the season you know - Yankees SUCK!

OK, I give up - throw in the extra cash Sox - just get AROD

Just for clarification and sanity purposes...is the deadline actually 5pm est? I heard several espn tv reports this morning where they mentioned a 6 pm deadline.

rsb

jz--

you need to get some perspective. way off base. worse than the Black Sox and Pete Rose? Not even close. The Union is protecting its interest, and I'm sure its officials are trying to facilitate the deal. However, I'm sure they see an egregious break in policy. The Union is protecting the players -- like it or not.

Ok, can we stop the "clubhouse will be a mess" posts? Manny is Manny and Nomar will be fine. They are professionals and are paid well to play baseball...period.

I think the "Darkest Day" thing is a little overblown. Worse than the Black Sox?

Carl Everett Era.. Ahh yes, Bichette, Lansing, How could anyone forget?
I think this team will win with Nomar/Manny or A-Rod/Mags.. no matter what the feelings are for each other. They are just to talented and professional to allow that to get in the way, well, all besides Manny, but all he wants to do is hit and also Viva la Curt Shilling!!

Give Hicks NO MONEY!!! Screw him!!! Why give more money someone explain this to me!

whats with all the red text? or is that just on my crappy pc?

OK, I've been doing work all day...anyone care to fill me in with a brief synopsis of today's events? Much appreciated.

I know most people can't, myself included, let go of hoping this will happen today. It would be benefical to my health and productivity if I could, but I can't. Even though we all know this won't happen today.

The 5 pm deadline is the deadline Hicks gave and the 6 pm deadline belongs to the Commissioner.

Hi everybody....

BEFORE YOU POST, STEP BACK, READ YOUR POST, AND ASK YOURSELF: "DID I JUST WRITE SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED ALREADY?" If so, just hit the back button and continue reading, and spare us from reading "This trade must be done" or "I can't wait" for the 400th time.

Those who have been typing and notice typos...DO NOT MAKE A NEW POST ABOUT JUST YOUR TYPOS. YOU GOING BACK AND HITTING THE 'EDIT' BUTTON WILL SUFFICE.

AND IF YOU "CAN'T WAIT", DON'T! Spend your time reading, re-reading and re-re-reading this:
http://forums.redsoxnation.net/index.php?act=boardrules

Yeah for board rules! Boo for one liners! If you just want to talk to your fellow fan, go over to http://www.portlandsoxfan.com and do so there.

Yeah for board rules and a serious message board atmosphere again!

It's a hot topic?

I'm getting Red Text too..so it's not your Computer.

Schillondahill

It could be worse. Atlanta is FULL of Sox fans. It will be a home series when they play at The Ted this July.

Oh yeah... we warmly welcome Boston College into the ACC.

How is it their 30 million apart when it's general knowledge that their stuck between the Sox 30 mill and the Unions 14 mill? Unless something I haven't heard has happened they are not 30 mill apart.

OK, everybody slow down, and take a deep breath. We sound like a bunch of 12 year old school girls (apologize to all the ladies, and any actual 12 year old school girls).

The sky is not falling. The world is not going to end.

We are getting a bit out of control. Regardless of what happens at 5pm today, 6pm today or 5pm next tuesday, the sun will rise in the east, it will set in the west, and on Opening Day 2004, the Boston Red Sox will have a great team.

Now lets try and relax, and just wait to see what happens.

Just suggesting...

And here I thought I was just looking through hung over, blood shot eyes.

Let's not be hasty here. According to the terms specified by the MLBPA we'd only be picking up ~$1.5-$2m of Manny's contract anyways, that's acceptable but I still don't like it. The correct play here is for the trio to stand their ground, and if anything reach a mutual agreement with the union, or get Hicks to backdown. Of course this (the rejection of the restructured contract) could work out in our favor if it makes Hicks more likely to cave.

I understand the deadline to be 5pm Central, 6pm Eastern, but everybody is saying it's one hour from now (5pm eastern).

i don't think we should worry about the 5 PM thing...

from ESPN:
Because union official Gene Orza and management lawyer Rob Manfred traveled to Florida for Bubba Trammell's grievance hearing Thursday, the deadline may have to be extended.

i'm sure we'll end up with an extra day or two to sort all of this out.

I think it was the other way around, not that any of them matter.

ESPN.com Headline "Jayson Starks says it will take a miracle for the deal to happen befor the 5 pm deadline." I think the fork is sticking out of this thing pretty prominently now...

I agree completely. Nomar can't afford to sulk. It would cost him millions. And nothing effects Manny. I don't get the feeling that those 2 were a big part of the chemistry this year anyway, so I don't think it will have much effect.

Stark live on at 4:10 on espn news.

CTSoxGirl....I'd meet ya for a drink...but as I am in lower CT, we wouldn't get all the updates....

Bottom line is this: Regardless of what happens, and I do think that having Arod and Mags would be awesome, we still would have Manny/Nomar....Nomar is playing in his FA year, and my feeling is that he is going to have a sick year...which will lead us all to argue the merits of the endless posts about Nomar's deterioration from his 99-00 "Nomah is God" seasons. I feel good about RS this year REGARDLESS of what happens... But for some reason, I can't pull myself off the boards.. As someone earlier stated "this is crack for RS fans."

Anyone else getting unavailable server messages when they refresh, or is it possible that my 1500 refreshes today is frying my computer

I don't know about anybody else, but this thing has to be dead...if for no other reason than at this point, it needs to be. Lets see the Sox get back to business and shore up 2B and take this kick-ass team to spring training. Haven't really looked at any numbers or anything yet, but what are the odds on a Swilly and prospects for Vidro trade?? Bud has to make this up to the Sox somehow. Nomar will re-sign and we may overpay, but to the city of Boston, if it were going to be one player, Nomar is it - bad wrist, declining numbers and all. You could probably make an argument for Pedro too. As far as Manny goes - I'm still not sure he knows what's going on. As frustrating as it has been at times, it's part of why I like him too. They are OUR Sox and OUR characters - sometimes bearing a striking resemblence to their fans. Forget all this and lets lock up Pedro and as many of the other '04 FA's we can for the next couple years. Getting A-rod may leave that window of opportunity open, but standing pat now IMHO will leave it WIDE OPEN. We don't have to try to get the 2nd coming of Babe to break some alleged curse. If this trade goes down, I don't see it making that much of a difference overall, the rest of this team is too damn good...it's the concept of diminishing returns. The Sox have improved so much already this year - how much more can they really do?? I need more coffee...I think I'm having a stroke.

Although I believed at the beginning of this saga that we were a better team with Schilling, Foulke, Nomar and Manny instead of swapping out with A-Rod/Ordoñez-or-Flavor-of-the-Day, I don't know if I feel that we can just walk away from the A-Rod deal and maintain the status quo.

I had reservations about upsetting the record-setting offense from 2003 AND the remarkable team chemistry we achieved -- why swap out players like a Rotisserie team when your machine is working well? But now we're at a point where I'm concerned mostly for Nomar's attitude towards management. I agree Manny will be oblivious no matter what. But Nomar has always wanted to stay in Boston. He never said otherwise, and any media hack who claimed that he was a 'Southern California guy aching to get back to his roots' obviously never followed Nomar. He went to an Eastern school and he has never professed anything short of admiration for the fans, the team, or our history. There’s a reason why Ted Williams thought so highly of Nomar. His one mistake seems to be that he and his agent misjudged the market for his talent last spring.

Of course I'm biased: I remember watching the Varitek/Garciaparra/Jay Payton tandem wreck Georgia Tech’s opponents in the early 90’s, and then enjoyed the synergy of two of those guys going to my beloved Red Sox and becoming All-Stars. But I can't help feeling that Nomar is getting jobbed by this: the victim of an agent who can't keep his mouth shut; the victim of a bad Manny contract signed by the now-departed Dan Duquette; the victim of an unfortunate slump at the end of last year which may be our final impression of him in a Sox uniform. Really, I don't know of any guy who took the game or the science of hitting as seriously since ol' Teddy Ballgame. Maybe Tony Gwynn -- but it's no coincidence that both were favorites of the Splendid Splinter.

And that’s why I think there might be no turning back in terms of Nomar’s status. It’s not just smoothing out some ruffled feathers of his. All of a sudden the guy who is a home-grown, incredibly popular, friend-of-Ted-Williams, face-of-Red-Sox-Nation kind of player that Nomar is, has gone from untouchable to expendable in 4 short months. He’s reading the same media as we are, and hearing the same sentiment from the fans that has been bandied around on ESPN, radio, and message boards. That Red Sox Nation was willing to drop him like yesterday’s news.

Hey guys, long-time SoSH stalker, first time stumbled upon Royal Rooters...looks like a good site you've got going.

1st of all...it's not fair to simply bash Orza and the union (or "association," sorry Shaughnessy ) for opposing the deal as it stands, they've got nothing to gain and a lot to lose. Hicks and A-Rod made their beds with that contract, and if he didn't like the terms, well, he shouldn't have signed it as a member of union. You can't just join up and manhandle the clauses in their universal collective bargaining agreement just 'cause you're A-Rod (talk about potential Sox stars getting special treatment...)

2nd of all, while I am not universally opposed to the trade, I am conditionally opposed on several account that have been covered: Williamson included, paying Texas $20 mill, etc. It's unfair to call somone out for "separation anxiety" when they suggest that we'd be better off as is. Ordonez is a great player, but no amount of intangibles listing-off change his numbers from being down significantly from manny power-wise and OBP-wise, and though he strikes out less, he also walks far less. Think Nomar-esque approach to hitting, a real first pitch hitter. And he's making more than Nomar (14 mil to 11.5), is not that much younger, and in all likelihood will be a much tougher re-sign (with more competition, due to age and likely fenway inflated numbers) at the end of the season.

Anyone agree?

Thanks for letting me post.

That is crazy! As much as we hate what the union is doing, there is some merit to it. They are not there to protect A-Rod and the other mega-stars. The union exists to help the bottom third of players in the league. they don't want to turn into a situation like the NFL where players are forced to renegotiate their contracts or be cut from their team. I know it sucks for us right now, but they are doing the right thing for their union membership.

Please adjust your bandwidth ... it's messing with my board atmosphere.

SoxinDC:

Accoring to Gammons, the easy part of this deal has been agreed upon.

Manny for ARod
Nomar and Willy for Mags

Two holdups:
1. Henry and Hicks cannot agree upon how much the RS should pay per year for Manny's contract. (I for one think the RS should not pay a penny to the Rangers.)

2. The Union doesn't like the way ARod's contract has been reconfigured and won't sign off.

Depending on who you believe and what you believe, this deal is dead or it might be possible. McAdam said the deal is done. Jayson Stark said it won't get done before 5 p.m. and Gammons says it's possible and it might not. Gammons is very committal.

Meanwhile, Edes and Massorati were on WEEI complaining about how SoSH shut down and how they can't get any information. So what ended up happening? Schilling called and went toe to toe with them, telling them to do real work rather than relying on a web-based discussion list.

The prospects on this getting done are dimming and quickly too. For one who thought it was going to get done, I'm beginning to think it won't. And, I think I can interpret JWH's comment on SoSH last night to mean "ending" = "ending." In fact, at this point in time a Rose is a Rose. This is a pipe. This deal is dead. The RS keep Nomar, Manny and Williamson. I love Mags, but Nomar AND Williamson are too too much for Mags.

For those with access to Stark's info please keep us posted.

The Trio can't back down on this one. Hicks is trying to make up for his foolishness in signing ARod to that contract to begin with. Theo and the boys are smart enough to recognize that the Hicks is up against the wall on this one. Wait it out and bring ARod to Boston.

Just heard Stark say that the 5PM deadline pertains to the ability to negotiate with A-Rod, not to make the trade. It's Hicks that is setting the deadline to make the trade. Maybe there's still a chance!?!

Scott

WallBall is right! We have an unbelievable pitching staff to look forward to. Schill is going to give us plenty of great quotes. Worst case scenario we still have Nomah and Man-ram. I am going home, I am going to open a Sierra Nevada, sit my fat ass in front ESPN and wait. Thank you all for helping me throught this day! I accomplished nothing at work.

SwingandDrive, amen.

Just a thought but why should we as fans care is the sox end up "paying too much" for A-Rod? Beside ticket prices.

Maybe Theo and the trio look at it like there is a lot of up side potential in getting A-Rod and winning a World Series and believe that they can make up the difference Hicks may demand on Manny's contract and therefore are willing to pay.

I see all these comments about this contract and and that contact and I doubt any of us have actually read them, nor do I suppose any of us know what that plans are for NESN and other associated assets, as well as for building a new stadium. Maybe JWH saw something in almost getting there that leads him to believe 30 million is chump change if he could win it all in Boston.

I know these are business decisions outside my realm of understanding. Also I am positive that if any of the media reporting on this deal could understand such high dollar negotiations they would not be writing pithy columns for the Herald, ESPN, et. al..

My point is as fans we should keep our analysis to what we can see between the lines and without a doubt this deal makes the team better there, for the long term.

I just got home and was on the road when I heard Curt Schilling's surprise call to WEEI and was screaming like a banshee at Curt telling that little pip squeak Masserotti from the Herald off when Curt gave the line that it was the media's job to get the story, not for the players to give it to him. I had heard stories on how intelligent Schilling was, but this interview, if nothing else made me have a new respect for a baseball player that I have never had and it looks like this could be a fun ride between here and soSH.

Having said that, as far as the A-Rod situation goes, I can understand the union and it's logic behind why they ruled the way they did. However, where A-Rod is doing this of his own accord, don't you think he should have either said something to Orza already last week if there was going to be this much of a problem ??? Granted, he probably shouldn't have opened up his trap to the media about willing wanting to renegotiate his contract, but I think IN THIS CASE, the union is making a mountain out of a molehill !!!!

If Nomar really is as attached to Boston as he says, then he'll be happy if the deal falls through.

I may have to do something I don't want to do until this blows over, just allow members to view the posts

BUT


anybody can still register

This may happen in the next hour or so so be advised

But again membership is free and almost instant.

There really has not been much - Arod said this morning that it's up to the clubs and the MLBPA - Then a little while ago Shill was on eei and exchanged niceties with BigO, Maz etc. - The rest has been babble

There are two deadlines set. They are distinctly different.

Hicks has set a deadline for the actual deal.
Selig's deadline refers to the 72 hour window for A-Rod's deal to be negotiated

I want this deal to happen but I would walk right now. Hicks is counting on the Sox to flinch. We shouldn't. We have some powerful cards in this deal. Hicks will lose a lot more if he has to carry that contract.

This trade can be made at a later date and Selig could open negotiations again. Why panic. Don't flinch, keep calm and don't act desparate, we hold the cards. We can live with Nomar and Manny or at the very least we have proactive management who won't let us down.

We've got to walk.

goldwp93,

I believe Curt Schilling was on the SoSH board earlier, can you update us on what he said about the arod trade?