It's kinda hard not to have double, triple, etc posts. Unless you haven't noticed there's been 12 PAGES of this thread alone today, 3 in the last 30 minutes. People are posted ideas at the same time, not one after another. If we all wait to post something, nothing gets posted.

I can sympathize with the cost of bandwidth, but it's part of having a site where more fans converge than any other team.

Seligs statement should read, "Sox can no longer talk with AROD Direct".

He cannot stop a trade between GM's or Owners.


My opinion, if What Gammons says is correct about paying 15 mill over 3 yrs to Texas? I would bet the trade is or will be completed.

A few add endorsements, Sox will get their 15 mill back.


IF Sox do pay 15 Mill, NO Need to send any prospects to texas from Chicago.

Rauch Hummel or Borchard would be sweet..

GO THEO!!!

%$%$# the

Curt, here are all of the nicknames and acronyms.

Nomar came up through the farm system, has been nothing but a model citizen, getting involved in local charities. He's done everything the organization has asked of him. Do you really want to win the Series by buying it? Look at the difference between Nomar and AROD's salaries. Chemistry is huge in baseball, and trust me Pedro's gonna be gone too next year. Enjoy the AROD years.

Boston.com has already posted a news article relating to this topic. It's going to be interesting to see what develops now.

BTW, I just wanted to know what we are allowed to talk about? Just so I don't overstep the bounderies set by you guys. Please let me know so I know what to post. Thanks

SoSH stated earlier today that due to the excessive hits it has received it is going to have to do this every night until the ARod deal/no-deal is done. So expect to be able to view it in the morning and afternoon but not when you get home from wherever you are at night.

Obviously pitching help is the greatest need for the Rangers and this is where they would earmark the subsidy from the RS in the event of a Ramirez/Rodriguez trade. But does anyone know the remaining terms of the albatross that is Chan Ho Park's contract? Why not pay the Rangers some semblence of a subsidy for the remaining terms of Park's contract since this is when they'll need it the most and when the savings from a AROD/Manny trade would be at a minimum? I don't wanna see the Sox pay anything, but I just want this to be facilitated. I mean can you put a price on building your organization around the best player in the game in his prime??

A commitment to winning needs some gutsy calls. . .

Nomar wasn't exactly a huge part of the whole 2003 Sox lovefest, from what I gather. Seems to me that ARod would be a better clubhouse guy. At least Millar seems to think so.

Now Gammons reports a deal still could happen over the weekend. They have made a lot of ground today. Time to go on with our normal life again.

[COLOR=blue] B) This is what I think. Boston has texas finnally giving in on some of the manny payback money. instead of paying 25 million back to the rangers. The rangers will take 15 mil over 3years, I beleive this deal will get done , by early next week. Redsox Fans there is hope in all of this sanity. Just keep the faith guys, we have terrific owners doing the best they can and I beleive they will outlast hicks.

Sure it does. The Sox have made two gutsy moves this offseason already. A-Rod went from a fictitious rumor to a deal that may still get done. This progress alone is gutsy......but there is a bright line between gutsy, shrewd and foolish. Next year is NOT the only year we need to be worried about. Pedro, Lowe, Tek and Trot all need to get paid too.........so if walking away from the deal or waiting it out to extrapilate every last penny from this is what it takes to preserve our best interests, then so be it. This is for real, not some fantasy baseball or rotisserie league team.

There were reports all day long stating that Selig may challenge the union, further, bring the case to arbitration. What has happened to that. Is this no longer an option? I know we didn't make a deal with the union, but can't we challenge this? If we do not restructure Alex's contract, it's almost impossible. Reports today say that the Rangers are asking for 5-7 miliion annually. IS HICKS ON CRACK? THEY NEED THIS TRADE MORE THAN WE DO! He is so against compromising. He acts like he is the team in the better position. God, who hired this moron???

Tell us, Cambridge, who decides what is an unnecessary post? That would seem a bit like the MLB players union trying to determine what consitutes "value" in this contract for A-Rod. In other words, "some people's opinion are more equal than others". For the most part, I think people's posts have been on topic and are an expression of their anxiety/disgust/hopefulness about this whole mess--and as such, I feel they have contributed to the overall dialogue.

For myself, I have been content to read what others have to say and have been using that to reduce my own anxiety while the deadline approached. I realy haven't been offended by anyone's input.

By the way, Cambridge, how are the studies going? :smoke

Well........nobody did. He's the FREAKING owner. Now give yourself a big slap in the face and repeat after me: "Duh, Duh, Duh."

okay....ease up a little. I'm a little stressed out. So let me rephrase....how did this moron ever earn enough money to buy a major league baseball team???

I'll answer my own question.....he won the lottery or her inherited it!

Now I'm not a labor lawyer or anything like that, but I've been thinking about these deals and how the union is holding them up. It is clear that A-Rod has been willing to renegotiate his deal to get to Boston. Is there anything in the Union contract that prohibits A-Rod from "donating" say $5 million per year to the Red Sox charities? Thus, the Red Sox would not need to make these donations themselves, saving the $$$$ and putting it to other uses. I know this violates the spirit of the contract, but I'm not talking about the spirit if the contract, just a way around those (you fill in the blank) at the Players Union who are blocking this deal. The Union doesn't even have to agree to it, know about it, etc. After all, we are talking about the letter of the law which seems to be the only thing that matters to Orza, Fehr, etc.

Hicks is a media mogul who owns Clear Channel radio stations.

Hicks is far from a moron......sure, he overpaid for A-Rod, but the expected benefit did not turn out to be what he thought it would. Same goes for Chan-Ho. If anyone is a moron, it's John Hart and Hicks should have his b@lls. If I'm a Texas Rangers fan, I'm glad that Hicks is holding the line......damn glad. Let's not act like little kids here......although some of you may be just that. This is business and big business at that.

I'm not sure I can take this anymore. It's Excruciating...I can't live like this through the weekend. I just can't believe Orza left to do something else before the deadline. I hate this.. Hicks is milking us for everything. It just goes to show you just how screwed up baseball is. This stuff doesn't happen in other sports.

It appears to me that Hicks is trying to fool everybody into believing that he grew a set of balls sometime after Boras bitch-slapped him into A-Rod's contract.

Unfortuately for him the Sox have el senor con huevos grandes, senor Epstein

That and the fact that at the end of the day, the Sox don't need this. If they walk away for good right now I still love our chances for '04.

By the way, what a perfect name for that billy....Hicks.
Go sell crazy somewhere else, HICK.

Damn, it's hard to be a lurker anymore! 1st post, Hi all.

I think the two teams have so much invested in this trade that they can't turn back now. All of their potential future moves to complete the rosters hinge on this deal and both teams know it so neither team is in a "position of strength". It gets done.

Wow I can't believe how long this has dragged on for.....getting very hard to put in a full days work.

Let's just slow down a little. We are allowing this to get way out of hand.

1. This is not the Union's fault. The Union is only doing what it was suppose to do which is protect ALL of their members. It sucks, but we can't acquiesce and say it's ok this time because what's happening is good for the Red Sox.

2. The real villain in all of this is Tom Hicks. He (shrewdly or unshrewdly) thought that he had the upper hand and was going to extort the hell out of the system and the Red Sox. He wants us to pay for his mistakes.

3. Notice how Bud and his Cronies (unfortunately Lucchino (sp) are tryin to lay this all at the feet of the union. It really is Tom Hick's fault. Selig has no power to force the issue because ARod is on record as saying he wouldn't go through with the restructuring even if Selig forces it. This means he wouldn't wave his no trade clause which ends any dream Selig has of forcing this into a larger labor fight.

Try to keep your heads out there, and hopefully Tom Hicks blinked like some of the posts show with him reducing his demands.

I think the reason why the commissioner did not send this to arbitration is simple....the player was not willing to be a participant...he stated today that he would only accept a deal that was OK with the union. Couple this with his no-trade clause and you have no case to arbitrate

That's a very novel thought. Thanks.

Sorry Cambridge, Fenway, Anni, et al.

Two thoughts/questions... Was Hart the GM when the Arod deal was signed? for some reason I feel like he hasn't been there that long

Regardless of that point though, whoever the GM was had to have obtained Hicks permission to sign Anyone to a contract that monsterous... subsequently Hicks is directly responsible for the predicament of the team, and he now has the opportunity to repair some damage but is being incredibly stubborn and thick about this money issue... your saving 89 mil for crying out loud, I could buy like, a dozen chocolate bars with that kinda dough

Anyone else feel that since there haven't been any press
releases from either the Sox or Ranger owners that talks
are still ongoing and that there probably pretty close?

I would think if the deal was not close enough that we'd
be dealing with dueling press releases, blame and more
posturing in general - much like yesterday.

Whether or not we get A-Rod, you have to admit, this has done wonders for baseball's popularity. I love the Pats and all, but the people who refuse to let anyone even mention the word "baseball" during football season were starting to tick me off. Who would've guessed the Sox would be the top story in the middle of one of the best regular seasons in Patriots history, or on the night when 'Toine came back to town (and the C's pulled out a huge win)?

Of course, I retract that statement if the deal doesn't get done because of Orza and the union. I'm not going to be TOO disappointed if the deal doesn't happen only because the teams didn't work out a deal that worked for both sides, but if the union ends up being responsible, this could hurt baseball in a way similar to the All-Star Game Tie or Sammy's cork incident. We want baseball's best player to make an impact on a real baseball team, not yet another incident to bring more negative publicity to MLB.

But you're NOT a Rangers fan, so that's irrelevant. Or at least I hope not. We're not either. Hence, a Red Sox chat room. I'm sure Texas has their reasons, but this trade wouldn't need to be in the hands of the union if they had not demanded so much money. The demands are absurd if you ask me. The Rangers claim they need the $$ to buy young pitching, but we could have sent quite a few young pitchers in lieu of cash. He wants both, he wants it all. Now he'll be strapped down with an awesome shortstop and a terrible team. If that's your definition of a smart man, then so be it!!!!

By the way, I'm far from a child!

SO, latest news (that I have gotten from all of you among other things) is that "it may happen over the weekend." Again, I think most of us feel that JWH et al have done far too much for this not to happen (all sides want it, etc)....So this means that we could actually go back to trying to be productive members of society now?

Hicks is going to crack...has to crack...(or already may have cracked?) I'd be shocked if this didn't happen, very surprised, but will not die if it does not since we still will have a better team than last year. The only way I could handle losing Nomar is if we replaced him with Arod... If it happens, great..I'll be a bit sad to see Nomar go...but we will be even better than we have already become. Having a perennial .305/25/105/100 guy will make me sleep well either way..and my feeling is that Nomar will have a huge year regardless of where he ends up. My heart wants it to be in Boston next year as we have a great shot at it all. My mind knows that Arod/Maggs also makes us a perennial powerhouse (assuming we clear up FA issues next year, and I am sure the Trio will get that mopped up nicely).

Either way, besides minor sqwabbling, I think we are good..Schills is a great acquisition not only to give us a top 5 starting rotation, but as a strong voice and a leader.

I am taking the proverbial needle of RSN online out of my arm now so that I can actually leave the office.

Thanks for the great posts and updates....keep your fingers crossed, and see you soon... WS04

can you imagine if this deal gets announced some time during the Pats/Jets game????

Pandimonium Saturday night in beantown for sure.

(I'm glad I'll back in town for this)

What is the point? There will be no more restructuring, Selig terminated the talks and MLBPA told the Sox how it could be done properly and Theo chose to go another route. We will not get A-Rod as a Christmas Present this year.

We must move on and look at the the team as it is. Great Pitching, Nomar and Manny will be solid.

Well.......welcome to the world of negotiation. Of course the demands are outrageous.....that's the point......to get what you really want. Also, we were never offering "quite a few" pitching prospects. We don't have "quite a few" to begin with.

One of the problems we have that has not been discussed is this:

If we keep Nomar for 04, then fine. But what are we going to do after that? I'd say it's fair to assume that there's a good chance he won't resign with us and the evidence suggest this. Hanley Ramirez was in A ball last year. I'm sure we'll find a way to get creative (Theo always does), but letting Nomar go for the draft picks is simply not good enough. Sure, we'll have cash, but as far as I can see, there is no equal or better SS on the horizon via free agency.

I don't know about pretty close . . . but I don't think the deal is dead until JWH or Theo say it is. You gotta think the odds are against it at this point, though.

Decided to answer my own question...

Bump, While Hart did agree to the CHP deal in Texas, Doug Melvin was GM when Arod was signed, and subsequently fired after the first year and a last place finish...

that said this impasse still sits squarely on Hicks shoulders

I think you make a very good point. The fact that we have not heard official word from Hicks, or one of H/W/L/E is a very good sign.

At this point we know that the Sox can no longer hold talks with Arod (fact). This is really not a big deal because, the Sox know what is acceptable to MLBPA(fact). From what we have seen from Theo and the ownership is that they will not rest until their is absolutely no chance of getting this deal done(fact).

This deal has absolutely no chance(fiction). Until proven otherwise.

I want A-Rod, I want Maggs
and I want Manny to pack his bags

I sure love Nomie, and Manny can rake
but Hicks is a bastard, and Boras a snake

Theo is brilliant, and Henry is wise
Lucchino and Warner are my kind of guys

So put your faith in the Red Sox brass
even though the deadline has past

I think by tonight when this deal is complete
to see Steinbrenner's face would be so f***ing sweet!!

Edgar Renteria is a FA next year if we lose Nomar. He isn't Nomar's equal but he is really good.

EXACTLY - hence the reason this trade needs to happen. It's essential. If Nomar REALLY truly wanted to be here, he would have accepted the four-year 60 million deal. One of two things, just as Millar said: A) He thinks he is worth more (which in this market, he clearly is not). He cannot compare his salary to Jeter's bloated salary when Winebrenner throws money around like it has no value. OR B) He doesn't like Boston and does not want to spend his career here. Losing Nomar to draft picks would suck. The other option, instead of trading for Ordonez, trade for a player who makes half his salary (as I'm sure there are pretty decent left fielders in the 7 mil mark) and use the rest for young pitchers who we can send to texas in lieu of cash.

One thing I don't understand is this...

I liked Nomar too, and it will be slightly sad to see him in another uniform. But, personally, I'm offended. His not taking that deal means HE PROBABLY DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE. I think Boston is the best market/city in the world. Everyone should want to be here....and if he doesn't - Au Revoir baby!

To all current and potential posters on this site:

Please ignore the "thread police". They are only guilty of taking themselves waaaaaaay too seriously. This is, after all, a message board-- not a political treatise. All opinions are welcome, although sticking to the topic is expected.

The very thought that there are some on this board who feel free to belittle others because their input isn't "weighty" or "relevant" enough for them is insulting. In fact, I have found the "basball" opinions of some of the "police" to be quite elementary and redundant for my taste (but I've tolerated it)-- there's been little original thinking posted on this site in days-- despite what the "cognescenti" would have you believe. So, folks, post away. We've all been saying the same thing for days, right Cambridge, Bump?

Call off the dogs...

resign nomar...incentive is we also sign mia...ANYtime manny gets on base we have her pinch run for him...

Things HAVE to come to a head!
saturday is the final day to offer contracts
so many more decisions rest on this

don't go way...its now or never

and for any posters commenting on the CURT SCHILLING remarks on radio

GO CURT..you are daMAN!! defend the boys!

SoSH site was being flooded....they had to lock it down

*fingers crossed*

That was the cutest thing ever! Ha

Doug Melvin- that's a name I haven't heard in awhile. Thanks for that. Yeah, it falls squarely on him ultimately.....for sure. But, to put it into context, was Fred Wilpon the whipping boy when Phillips got axed? No.....GMs are hired to be.....well....general managers. Hicks got caught up in the market frenzy and over-played his hand and did not receive the benefit he thought he would. He, like our organization, is starting to realize what the Braves and Yankess have known and practiced for years: Pitching wins. I don't like the fact that he's driving such a hard bargain, but I understand why he's doing it and respect his approach to business. If I were in his shoes, I'd do the same thing and I'm sure John Henry realizes this as well. That's it. It doesn't make me a Ranger fan. It makes me a businessman who loves the Red Sox and baseball in general.

Doug Melvin......what an assh*le.

QUOTE
Was Hart the GM when the Arod deal was signed? for some reason I feel like he hasn't been there that long



This is my first post, but i have been visiting this site for awhile. Hart wasn't the GM when the A-Rod signing was made. Hicks is the one who made this deal. He outbidded everyone including himself, he could have signed A-Rod for a lot less than what he did. Let's all hope this gets done soon either way. The red sox brass needs to come out and let us know if this is dead or if they are still persuing it.

One option to play SS in Boston for 2005 would be Orlando Cabrera. I believe he is arb-eligible this year and will stay in Montreal, but that he will be a free agent next year. Seriously, Theo has already made it clear that losing a star player for draft picks is not the end of the world. If Nomar continues to decline, even just a tad, I'd be inclined to sign a Cabrera and have plenty left to spend on other bats/arms rather than overpay around $15M annually to have Nomar.

The alternative would be to sign a slick-fielding, ok-hitting SS and just spend Nomar's money on a quality bat and a quality arm, etc. Cabrera is just the first guy that comes to mind that I like....

Remember ... if the trade doesn't happen now, it could happen next year. Hicks isn't going to be able to dump ARod's contract anywhere else (unless Jeter retires) and the same applies to the Sox and Manny's contract.

Let's remember Dan Duquette was quilty of this also. Hicks wasn't the only one that got caught up in the moment that year.

Rangers News Conf at 7:15 EST on ESPN news

VT Lefty....you're right, but I thought that was pretty thin.....regurgitated Gammons spew. It reeked of Gammons. But you are right and I'm far from thread police. I've been fighting the man right along with you. How's the syrup running up there?