Give it a rest guys. Let's just listin to Curt scream on EEI again since they're rerunning it. But about this deal. No one knows what's going on behind closed doors so neither us nor Gammons so the last 8 pages or more have been speculation. Hicks downgrading his demand is a sure sign progress is being made. A Rod/Red Sox restructuring talks being shut off is a blow. Not a large one since we all know where the parties stand. My question to JH is WTF are you doing? 15 mill can be restructured and Tex wants 15 mill? Why is this deal not done. We're running the real risk of losing Maglio and getting dirt for Nomar. This is a bad move and could cost us in the long run. My feeling is the deal will happen but to drag it out is rediculous and is making me turn sour on Ownership. (Not managment because we all knew this was above Theo eventhough he was contributing in union talks, it's clearly not in his hands.) YeeHa Hicks and JH should get this deal hammered out, it's taking to much time.

Is there anyone out there that actually thinks that this A-Rod deal would even be happening if the Sox management thought the could re-sign Nomar to a reasonable contract? I think not. This whole ordeal comes down to the fact that Nomar was going to play out his year and test the market or only accept a high dollar deal from the Sox. While this strategy may have worked on previous Sox management, the crew we have in place is far superior in many ways. They realised that:

1) Nomar is not coming back without a monster contract.

2) Who is the best SS available and can we obtain him? (do you have to ask who?)

3) We need to get out of Manny's contract signed by the previous management team.

Add the three together and you have this whirlwind we are currently witnessing.

If Nomar signs an extension, none of this happens.

12/18/2003 5:23 PM ET

Commissioner ends negotiations

Baseball Commissioner Allan H. (Bud) Selig announced today that the deadline for negotiations between the Boston Red Sox and Alex Rodriguez has come to an end and that he will not extend the deadline.
Commissioner Selig said: "Due to the unique and complex nature of the negotiations surrounding the proposed transaction involving Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez and the number of teams involved, the negotiations did not reach a successful conclusion by the deadline set. I have terminated my permission for Boston and Alex Rodriguez to continue pursuing this transaction at this time."

Major League Baseball President and Chief Operating Officer Bob DuPuy added: "It's unfortunate that the Players Association felt it necessary to take a legal position which prevented the player and at least two teams from effectuating an agreement that they felt was beneficial."

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/ml...t=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I'm pretty confident that JWH knows what he's doing.

"Tell us, Cambridge, who decides what is an unnecessary post?"

Lefty (and everyone): I think the best way to respond is to say that many of us only have time to check in once or twice a day, and aren't following the posts in "real time". Someone who checks in for the first time in several hours will have to read through hundreds of posts, many of which reiterate what someone else just said or don't really add meaningfully to the thread. It is indeed arbitrary as to what constitutes an "unnecessary" post, but if you go back 10 pages into this thread and read through to the end...I think you'll see what I mean (note: take into consideration that the barstaff has already deleted dozens of posts here in order to make the thread more managable.

I don't think I would be trading Nomar for anyone but A Rod at this point. At least try to work out a deal. I wont this trade to happen desperately, but I wont toss ONE of the best shortstops for just anyone. (Not saying Cabrera isnt good). I know Nomar's ego may be bruised. But he's a big boy...if the deal doesn't work, hopefully he can come back and play his heart out. If he has a good year, maybe we'll throw the 60 mil offer back out. And maybe this time his idiot agent will instruct him to do the smart thing and jump on the offer. I think all players should do like Schill (well, the ones who are fluent in English at least) and get rid of those, "I'm in it for myself" agents

I think it is time to step back.

The only way to have the upper hand is to be willing to walk away.

Walk away Henery, walk away. Arod will be languishing in Texas next year. Hicks will be in last place crying poor mouth.

Maybe he will be desperate enough to pay the Sox some scratch to take Arod.

Walk away, just walk away. Who NEEDS this trade more? :smoke

Why is everyone an idiot with you? Arn Tellem is one of the best agents in the business and rarely pops off in the media about anything. At the time he turned down the offer of 60 million he thought he was acting in Nomar's best interest. This is what is called zealous advocacy. If he was in it for himself and the quick buck, don't you think he would have grabbed the 60 million? That's a nice commision in and of itself. Sure he's got personal interest attached, but only after his client's best interests are protected........God, he's an agent, not some volunteer in a soup kitchen.

Actually, Renteria bested Nomar in almost all the statisical categories last year. If we don't include beginning/end of season splits into the argument (where they shouldn't be anyways, because consistency factors heavily into being a good player), Renteria was the second best shortstop last year.

VT: That may be the case, but it's obviously much more preferable to have a message board that resembles everyday, intelligent (of course, this is subjective) conversation that doesn't sound like a bunch of kids amped up on sugar and caffeine. No one needs to tell the world of their every emotion. Stress is no excuse for bogging down the rest of the world with pages and pages of drivel. No one absolutely has to type it up for the world to see that they "like the deal"; without providing some sort of justification other than "Manny is a bad clubhouse influence" is not thinking before posting. Although this thread has grown large and quite unmanageable, and therefore impossible to look through, to think that you are the first person who thinks "Manny is bad clubhouse influence" is being irrational.

I personally think the moderators do a fairly good job around here, considering the number of people who have definately never read board rules and the number who make irrelevant posts to the discussion just to call out the Barstaff.

Edit: Here's a nice article showing why 'unions' are not stupid, as everyone seems to believe: http://money.cnn.com/2003/12/18/commentary...tsbiz/index.htm

[quote=MahtyBarrett,Dec 18 2003, 06:49 PM] [/QUOTE]
I'm pretty confident that JWH knows what he's doing. [/quote]
I'm confidant that he thinks he knows what he's doing but by losing Maglio it would become apparent that he has no clue what he's doing other then playing a big game of "my balls are bigger then yours". Maglio is not going to be there like this deal will be for the next few days. This was an almost take it or leave it situation and the ChiSox are already getting cold feet about it. If Mags falls through I still vote to get A Rod but now look at the distinct possability that we get sub par replacements in LF which is a negative of drawing this deal out like we/they are. I have a hard time believing that with Hicks coming down considerably on his demands that the Sox shouldn't jump all over this deal especially since the acceptable restructuring would offset the cost.

I think we're going to learn just where all affected parties stand at the 7:15 Rangers press conference that B36 mentioned above. This could really clarify things.

My instinct says it's just a "we met, we talked, we had pastrami on rye and a diet coke with lemon, and we're going to continue to talk." My heart tells me "The Texas Rangers have agreed to send shortstop Alex Rodriguez to the Boston Red Sox in exchange for Manny Ramirez."

<fingers crossed> <beer cracked>

Why hasn't RedSox brass responded to Selig's statement? It seems unlike them not to let the fanbase know WTF is going on....and I thought I had seasonal depression before....this is ridiculous...my plea to all the boys..say SOMETHING

Why hasn't RedSox brass responded to Selig's statement? It seems unlike them not to let the fanbase know WTF is going on....and I thought I had seasonal depression before....this is ridiculous...my plea to all the boys..say SOMETHING

my humble apologies...the fast reply was not fast i guess duhduhreduhndant

Hicks will not pay to take A Rod off his hands regardless of next years positioning. Meanwhile Nomar will not be back. Anyone who thinks we'll just say sorry and work this out is crazy. The only reason the deal will fail (if it does) is because the restructuring didn't go through so Nomar will know he's the consilation prize and will walk without hesitation unless we drasticly overpay him. Then who has the upper hand? Get this deal done and stop hindering our progress it's beyond rediculous now.

Hi,

Just wondering why no one has responded to this post. Has anyone else heard anything about a press conference?

I've been looking everywhere to try to find out what the conference is about. The fact that I can't find anything makes me think that this is a "pastrami on rye" conference.

By the way.... DD, things aren't looking good for your websight, partner.

No disrespect barstaff....

but if the message boards were intended for people to "read through" that defeats the purpose. These are fans' opinions. If people want to read what is going on...don't read through tons of pages in a fan message board. Go to ESPN.com. This site should be for opinions, and all you need to do to get caught up is read the last couple pages. Geez, let us talk!!!!

rangers having a press conference at 7:15est you can listen on www.theticket.com



THE TICKET Dallas, Texas to listen you must allow popups

Gammons on ESPN News: "It will get done." Also, he insists the deal to the White Sox is in place.

At 6:30 (or so) ESPN reported (again, this is old news), about Fat Roger and the Rangers....

My issue is simple, with so much money on the line (THE DEAL), why is Hicks spending time working other deals...

I would love to be just in the lobby of the offices where the talks are on-going and keep an inventory of who is in "the room", who just left, etc, etc.

"...sorry for the interuption, but a Mr. Clemens is on line 2 for Mr. Hicks..."
"Hey Roger, what's up?"
"...uhhh no, the pitchers don't bat for the Rangers..."
"yeah, that's right, uh, uh"

"OK, so I'll let you know when I'm done with this meeting, yeah, sure we're interested"

click.

Gasbag says all the same stuff from before in his latest report on ESPN News, but adds that Tom Werner has taken over negotiating with Hicks from Larry Lucchino. Kinda like bringing in Wakefield after Pedro, no? Good move.

The feeling, acc. to Peter, is that it will get done, "maybe tomorrow, maybe Saturday."

Also says the White Sox deal is still alive. He's still talking ... but my boss is coming and I have to get back to fake work.

Do you look at EVERYTHING from a business perspective? If his client's best interest was at hand, they would have accepted the $. For a guy who claims he wants to be in Boston sooooo bad, that was ridiculous not to accept. Did he think he would get more? No, so maybe Tellem is smart...but that's only if Nomar wants to leave. If he truly doesn't, then it was not a smart move.

If my posts anger you so much, how 'bout you skip over them and not read them. I have my opinions just as you do!

Well, I'm back after some food and much needed beer. What an anti-climactic "deadline" this turned out to be. Orza was just on ESPN, the bastard, but Sellig can open another window to discuss a restructuring of the contract if he wants to.

NEWS UPDATE:

Santo Domingo, DR; Reports that Peetey wants contract extension through 2008.
Needs answer from Sox Brass before X-mas. 20 mil for 5 years are the numbers being discussed. Also, demands for Vlad to be on the roster next year or we'll take our Dominican connection to Tejas wit Manny at the end of the season. That includes you too, Tizzle!

It would seem everyone is looking for a piece of JH's portfolio!

Hey is this so far fetched?

Meanwhile, you continue to ignore the barstaff's request to hit the report button and add to the problem by making an irrelevant post to the discussion (which, I might add, I also am guilty of with this post).

well, i'm waiting to get connected to that stream now, we'll see what they say

five years, 20 million annually? Is he joking? Sorry, Pedro, I like ya, but not that much. Have you checked out the market lastely? Didn't his latest interview say before spring training? Now it's Christmas, boy is he fickle!

Hey, the beginning of my post was very relevant to the discussion with Renteria.

But if you want, I can add some relevancy.

I hope this deal gets done, because Manny is such a bad clubhouse influence.

Orza on ESPN News blathering on.

(Paraphrase) "I'm a close personal friend of Alex. There's a picture of him in my office. There's no one you'll talk to that cares more about Alex than me. I was instrumental in negotiating his first contract. The Red Sox played on that aspect and purposely tried to submit a proposal that would suit their needs thinking I would approve it."

Uh oh. Boss coming back.

i believe that was a joke post...

Opinions are fine, but this is a message board, and not a chatroom. Once we get chat going, you can have free-flowing discussions over there. We'd like to keep the forums open for discussion, and not one-liners and unrelated chat. Otherwise, we will lose posters who do not want a chat-room format, and who have been with us since April.

All we ask is that you do not repeat the same thing over and over, and that you do not post duplicate material. That eats up bandwidth, and clutters the board.

Anni

I donno if gammons has ever made a decisive point, but i still like him for some reason, maybe its that he wears sneakerss under him suit that makes him so crazy and likable

I seriously hope so. However, with pampered Pedro, you NEVER know!

can anyone else get the stream of this news conf?

what are they saying?

i'm unable to get it to work, they're probably gettin ghammered

Ted Sarandis just read a press release from Lucchino saying that there will be no trade! I am trying to confirm this right now.

Stand by...

Anni

So if this A-Rod deal does fall apart where do they go next?
If they can't keep Nomar because of the bad blood, hurt feelings, bruised psyche and blathering media then what?
Trade Nomar for whatever Montreal would need to get Orlando Cabrera & Jose Vidro?
That would take care of two needs in one shot.

ESPN News just posted Lucchino's statement. I'll summarize - Reports that talks are ongoing are false and inaccurate. The deal is done as a result of the union's intransigence.

ESPN News also reported this statement. Deal is dead.

Just mvoed on AP wire ...

BC-APNewsAlert,0018
NEW YORK (AP) _ Alex Rodriguez trade "dead," Boston Red Sox say.

while i'm not very optimistic about this, and i'm generally not a fan of not believing a man's words, that really sounds like some posturing by LL

Who's angry? First off- know this. I'm not a Nomar advocate at all. I think he doesn't want to be here. I think he's womanly actually. But know this.....this sport and every sport, is, sadly, just business. I know you're sitting at your computer thinking you could be an owner, GM or an agent without ever having put yourself in a position to be one, but the fact is that you're not viewing this deal with enough of a detached and disintereted paradigm. You're being a fan. That's GREAT. So am I. But please try to be a reasonable, rational fan.

no, no, no, it can't be. We need Selig to challenge the union and bring it to an arbitrator. This deal needs to happen. It's way too far!!!!! Wow, thanks union - glas one guy's decision is enough to effect a whole nation of die hard fans!

I guess the Rangers news conference will put the final nail in this baby.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Henery walking away is the only way to regain control of this situation.

Nomar is in a contract year. He is playing for his baseball future. How well he plays will only escalate his value no matter where he plays. He is a professional.

Where is Arod going to go? Is overpaying for him the solution?

I say, walk away now and let Hicks come to you at your price.

Unfortunately, I think it may be time to move on. The Sox are not going to pay A-Rod his full salary and 25% of Manny's contract over the next 3 or 4 years. I'm as bummed as the rest of you, but I think it is really dead this time.

LET'S GO NOMAAAHHHHHH

"WE MISSED YOU BUDDY, WHERE YA' BEEN?


Say, about that contact of yours....... $15mm might be workable. "

Quote from AP by Lucchino:

"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead," Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said. "The players' association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today."

Orza's statement on ESPN makes sense from a union standpoint. If A-Rod takes a perceived pay cut, then owners could conceiveably ask others to take cuts as well. I'm really disappointed this happen, but I blame Hicks, not the union,

Orza came off really bad! He is such an ass! He basically said everything was Luccino's fault. he told Larry and Larry ignored him That is such BS! Dan asked the tough questions and Eugene dodged.

I am listening to that cokehead Irving too. Is it 7:15 Eastern or Central time?

Who the hell does this union think it is?! its not protecting anyone let me tell you that! the other player..that BULL, it should have been enough of an "object of value" for a-rod to be coming ot a winning team, this is a bunch on trash