I like that idea... very intriguing. It will free up about 7 mill if we trade nomar and manny to acquire A Rod which covers the Foulke deal and leaves money to sign a LF.

? [/QUOTE]
Perez to Texas with Manny? Rangers need pitching... hmm[/QUOTE]

Perez will not be heading to Texas. He makes too much $$. Also, that would mean we would get Arod for Nomar and Manny, with nothing else in return.

If this deal goes down, it really makes you wonder who we could be getting if we moved Perez somwhere.

I don't think Texas would take him, they're trying to dump $$$ and taking on 20 million plus Perez wouldn't be too smart of them.

Theo and the Trio are being sneaky! I call shenanigans!

I'm assuming the Dodgers would send us some kind of prospects for Nomar... I don't think Theo would do Perez/Nomar even up. We're talking about the Chan Ho Park Rangers here... Perez fits right into their rotation nicely

I haven't heard of any interest in Perez at all, so who would we be sending him to other than Texas?

i would think the THeo would flip Perez for a second baseman.

VIDRO!!!

now that Minaya traded Vazquez, he has an empty spot in the rotation...

nomar for vidro. i'd do it with Arod filling the void at SS.

Perhaps they're going to take Odalis Perez and trade him to someone else in exchange for a power-hitting, young OF to replace Manny? That would make the most sense. Also, another thought on the meeting of JHW and A-rod: Maybe they're restructuring his contract so that if we have to pay some of Mann'y salary in the trade, it won't exceed A-rod's previous salary. That would allow us to shed enough payroll to aquire that young OF AND Keith Foulke.

Huh? So we'd be trading Manny and Nomar for A-rod? uh-uh. W'e better be getting a Blalock or Texiera thrown in.

All these deals seem too interdependent for the Sox to actually pull this off. But dealing Nomar from strength (ie: before you pull the trigger on A-Rod) is a far better strategy. It's going to be an interesting few days, for sure.

There were rumours earlier this year that the Dodgers were going to trade Perez to St. Louis for Drew or Edmonds. Not sure which side actually declined the trade though.

Even though oft injured, Drew would not be a bad pickup. He really needs to be on an American League team with the DH.

Some interesting quotes from Dodger GM Dan Evans...Makes ya think a deal is pretty close.

Matsui no longer in plans

INSIDE THE DODGERS


12:43 AM PST on Friday, December 5, 2003


By ANDREW BAGGARLY / The Press-Enterprise



LOS ANGELES - The Dodgers have nearly abandoned their pursuit of Kazuo Matsui, leaving the New York Mets as the most likely destination for the star shortstop.

"He's a good player, a switch hitter with speed and some power, but he is not a top priority," Dodgers general manager Dan Evans said Thursday. "There are other players out there -- more middle-of-the-order type guys with pop -- that we're focused on."
The Dodgers intensely scouted Matsui in Japan this season and were thought to be among the frontrunners to gain his services, but Evans is not expected to match the Mets' three-year, $21 million offer.

Sounds like nomie

Read what I said after... I don't think anyone would do Perez/Nomar straight up without at least getting a prospect or two from LA.




Totally agree

I think I'm gonna go out snowboarding. Anyone know how to get a sports ticker on your cell phone?

Wow, I like this idea a lot. Makes sense on top of that, hehe.

Vidro's 2003 numbers


Maybe we're just ignoring the Salary Cap this year too? Oh well, maybe next year Selig! Wooooooahahahaha!

From todays LA Times:

ANGEL-DODGER NOTES
A Star's Wish Is Mulled

A Star's Wish Is Mulled




By Bill Shaikin, Times Staff Writer


In high-stakes trade talks more intriguing than any Freeway Series game, the Angels and Dodgers competed Friday to trade for Nomar Garciaparra, but the owners of the Texas Rangers and Boston Red Sox must first agree to a separate deal before either local team can bring the star shortstop back home.

Garciaparra, a two-time American League batting champion and five-time All-Star, would be available if the Red Sox acquire American League MVP Alex Rodriguez from the Rangers. The Rangers would accept Boston outfielder Manny Ramirez in return, baseball sources said, but only if the Red Sox agree to pay some of the $100 million remaining on Ramirez's contract and all of the $180 million remaining on Rodriguez's contract.

The Red Sox, in search of payroll relief and offensive help, would then dangle Garciaparra before the Angels or Dodgers. Garciaparra, born and raised in Whittier, will make $11.5 million next season and can file for free agency thereafter. It is widely believed he would like to play in Southern California, so teams outside the area might consider him a one-year rental and offer little in return.

The Red Sox are believed to have talked more intensely with the Angels in recent days. General Manager Bill Stoneman said Friday the Angels have not requested a 72-hour window, granted by major league officials when a trade is imminent and a team wishes to negotiate a contract extension with a player to be acquired. The Angels prefer not to acquire players with one year left on their contracts, although Stoneman said Friday he would not rule that out.

The Angels signed free-agent pitcher Kelvim Escobar and are believed to have offered free-agent pitcher Bartolo Colon a four-year, $48-million contract. They have vowed to upgrade their offense too, with free-agent targets including shortstops Kazuo Matsui and Miguel Tejada. They reportedly have stalled Matsui while pursuing Garciaparra.

Stoneman would not discuss Garciaparra but said the Angels are pursuing offensive help in trades as well as free agency.

As the price on Matsui rises, the Angels and Dodgers might prefer Garciaparra, at 30 a proven major leaguer just two years older. Reports from New York indicate the Mets have offered Matsui three years at up to $23 million, a price the Angels and Dodgers would be hesitant to meet.

The Dodgers would be willing to trade pitcher Odalis Perez for Garciaparra, but sources in Boston suggested the Red Sox might accept that offer only if Perez could then be traded for offensive help.

Dodger General Manager Dan Evans, desperate for offensive help himself after failing to land trade targets Derrek Lee and Richie Sexson, would not comment specifically on Garciaparra.

"Obviously, there are some players we're more interested in than others," Evans said. "There are a lot of interesting fits out there, and we're talking to a lot of clubs about things we think will make us better next season and beyond."

It is uncertain who the Angels might trade to Boston for Garciaparra. The Red Sox need a second baseman, but the Angels prefer to keep Adam Kennedy, and teams are believed to be unwilling to trade for David Eckstein before Dec. 20, when the Angels might decline to offer him a contract.

Any trade for Garciaparra is contingent on a Rodriguez-Ramirez trade, and discussions on that deal are expected to conclude or dissolve by the winter meetings, which start next week in New Orleans.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb...orts-mlb-dodger

The "other trade" is probably ARod for Manny--plus Perez.

The Rangers need pitching, and Perez becomes the gift
instead of paying part of Manny's salary.

But Nomar for Perez isn't equal, so there is probably another
Dodger in the deal--an outfielder or 2nd baseman.

The same can be said of the Angels--Washburn and another player--
with Washburn going to Texas.

That's about all I can read in the tea leaves right now.

Yea, i'm aware that Perez wouldn't be the only Dodger coming here. Kinda obvious.

I would be really shocked if Perez were going to Texas with Manny though. From all reports Texas really doesn't even want to pay Manny's full salary, so if we sent them Manny and Perez then they would be doing exactly the opposite of what has kept the Rangers from going through with the trade.

I'd be more inclined to believe that Perez would be going somewhere else for a LF or 2B replacement.

There is NO WAY you trade Nomar and Manny and only get Arod in return. NO WAY AT ALL!

Manny alone will net us Arod.

Nomar on the other hand has real trade value. As I mentioned before, there are some teams that covet Perez b/c he is left-handed and has a very reasonable salary.

Now that Montreal has a hole in their rotation, I wouldnt be surprised to see a deal where Perez were flipped for Vidro. This would save Minaya more money to sign Vlad and would also fill the hole on the rotation.

The other possibility is that Theo would keep Perez to have at least one lefty in the rotation and flip Dlowe. This scenario doesnt thrill me b/c Perez's home/road splits are AWFUL and his R/L splits are attrocious.

If this is true, then these two trades become two of the worst trades in Red Sox history.

It becomes Manny and Nomar for ARod and a throw-in. I can't see the Dodgers having anyone we'd want for that throw-in. This can't be the deal. Theo could never be that stupid.

For those worrying about only getting Perez, this was the key part in the globe...

"Sources close to both teams confirm that talks have centered on a package of players that would include Dodgers lefthander Odalis Perez"

Package of players. We will get the worth of Nomar, not just Perez. It will be interesting to see where they have plans to trade Perez to though.

Sorry, if that's the trade... essentially Nomar and Manny for ARod, I really don't want to do it. And honestly, I seriously doubt Theo does it. It doesn't make sense.

Odalis Perez is way too generous of a gift for Hicks who is already saving... what is it now... about 80m over the course of ARod's contract? I would bet this deal goes down ARod for Manny straight, no cash. I don't see Theo playing it any other way really.

As early reports seem to be indicating, Perez is going to be the bargaining chip we fill the gaping holes at LF or 2B with.

Is Perez that much better than say... Kim? I just wonder if we keep the lefty and use Kim as a chip.

Instead of Vidro from the Expos for Odalis, why not Brad Wilkerson. He's 27 is a good outfielder and has a good arm, and has gotten better in both years he's been in the majors. I'm not sure Odalis for Vidro would work straight up, but Odalis for Wilkerson and maybe a minor leaguer seems more likely.

perhaps nomar for operez and sgreen - then perez goes to MTL for Vidro?? Or to STL for Edmonds??

Besides, why would Texas even want Perez? His home/road splits are horrible and despite pitching in Dodger Stadium he still gave up 10 homers in 10 starts there. It would be batting practice at Arlington Stadium when Odalis takes the mound. I'd think they learned their lesson with Chan Ho Park.

Maybe the better question would be, why would any team want Odalis Perez?

Its a shame to trade nomar. sad, really

I think if Sean Green was a REMOTE possibility we probably would have heard about it in the rumors. I don't see Theo taking on his salary for his underproductive stats of the last few years. An additional 15 million dollars to the Red Sox payroll just doesn't seem likely if they're getting A-Rod.

If it's true that he really doesn't want to be here and that he'd like to play out west, then isn't it the right deal to make. It's a win/win situation for both sides. Miomar wants out so why not atleast get something in return for him.

Trading Nomar and Manny for Arod (basically what is suggested by giving the Rangers the "gift" of O.P.) is absurd..

Manny for Arod, to me, is a fair deal given the $ the Rangers save. If Hicks doesn't bite, the heck with it.

Nomar has real value... I like (and agree that it is very plausable) Y.M.'s suggestion about the Montreal angle. The do have a large hole in the rotation, and moving Perez on to them makes sense. Vidro would be a great pick at second, and then all the Sox need to do is go out and get a reasonably priced LF.

I agree. Give up no players and add exactly what we need.

Encouraging that Horrigan is reporting that the Sox offer is 3 years at $21 million (earlier it was reported as $19 million which isn't nearly enough). Three years at $21 to go to the Sox is a comparable offer to four years at $24 million and you don't have to move.

I haven't seen a Manny/Nomar scenario yet that I really like. Let's hope that when it comes down it makes sense. And let's hope that Theo isn't buying into the downgrading of Manny Ramirez that is rampant online. Manny is one of the top hitters of our time and most probably a Hall of Famer.

What Henry is talking to ARod about prior to a trade is, obviously, restructuring his contract, something which will have to be cleared with MLB and the player's union. This could be enormously messy, people. I mean, this could end up in the courts. MLB might want to use the ARod case to push the union...hard. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

I really don't think wunderkid Theo would be stupid enough to make the deal end up being nomar and manny for a-rod. He has something else cooking that he's keeping close to his vest. He won't tip his card til the deals are in place.

They WONT trade Perez to the Rangers. That was all pure speculation by members of the board and not confirmed by any notable sources. Just because someone says that they will move Perez in another deal does not mean that they have to go to the Rangers. Perhaps we could package Perez and one of the young arms like Williamson to fill one of the holes we have.

Again, the Manny-ARod trade will be one-for-one, straight up. That is all that Theo will accept.

out of curiosity, has Jose Guillen been signed yet? I know he's a free agent, and he would fit the young outfielder mold pretty well

He has not been signed, the Mets are the #1 suitor.

I have a question about the luxury tax threshold. If we assume that the Sox are firm in not exceeding that level, the idea of trading Nomar away, should a Manny/ARod deal happen, makes perfect sense. But how exactly does a teams salary level get determined. One of the things we occasionally here about when details of players contracts come out, is deferred compensation.

Does money deferred past the end of a contract get pro-rated into that yearly calculation, or not? Because if you can push enough money out to later years of a new Nomar contract (or re-do ARod's), and not cost you tax dollars, you can see a way of keeping Nomar, regardless of the trade with Texas happening.

the rumor in the paper here is taht AROD has told people that the sox deal will be announced in a few days and taht the Sox will also be signing/trading for R Alomar to play 2b

that is from the Trenton Times

Hello i am new here,and i have been reading this post and would like to comment on the nomar being traded.First off i say nahh nahh nahh naahh hey hey goodbye!!!It seems that nomar not only has lost a popup but seems very bitter with the sox.Not only with the media but with fans and just by the way he speaks.I believe nomah wants out of boston just as bad as manny does! BOSTON WILL NEVER WIN A WORLD SERIES,with a garciapopup and if he wasnt such a great hitter would be a proffessional floor mopper ramirez!!!!


I would pay a nomar and manny for arod!Someone tell me what these 2 guys did in the clutch last year they had maybe 5-6 instances all season including the playoffs.between the both of them.Nomar is also the only player with the longest tenure as a redsox.Nomar will miss the cozy confindes of fenway park cause frankly since his wrist injury he isnt the same player he was 2 years a go.Management is doing the right thing by trading these dead beats and getting there people.As we all watch our once precious nomar be traded to california.

NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Not Roberto Alomar!!!!!

Don't do this, Theo.

You do not want Roberto Alomar in that clubhouse, with that media, and at his current disinterested level of play.

Just say NNNNNOOOOOOO!!!

I agree that Alomar has been less than spectacular for the last several years, but who knows what will happen with A-Rod as his double play partner. That being said, it only works if Alomar can be had inexpensively and another bench player can be used to platoon at 2b.

well remember this is from the Trenton Times [NJ] - not exactly a paper known for breaking Red Sox news, ....

I would not be opposed to giving Alomar a shot - awesome fielder - and if his offense returns and desire returns it could be a GREAT move.

If not, make sure we have a back up. Imagine the DP combo of AROD and Alomar, nice.

Ugh. Roberto Alomar is 35 and has been declining for years. Let's hope Theo & Co. were merely humoring ARod about getting Alomar.

Jim D.

I need to know what we turn Nomar into before I can say I like ARod/Manny trade. I'm thinking maybe Sox turn OPerez into JD Drew?? I might like that. What was his contract number last year? This would allow them to possibly trade Damon and bring in JPayton to play center. OF looks like Nixon/Drew/Payton. Solid OF at reasonable cost. I would move Nixon to leftfield in this scenario.

I can't even wrap my brain around you.

Nomar and Manny for A-Rod isn't going to happen, no matter how much you hate both of these players or think they'd be better served seeking a career in janitorial services.

All accounts I've read indicate Drew could possibly be NT'ed tomorrow. Otherwise I suspect that could be the deal on the table for Perez.

St. Louis is needs pitching badly.

hey dog, what deal was supposed to go down last night

From today's Newark Star Ledger

The A-Rod discussions are being handled by Rangers owner Tom Hicks and Red Sox owner John Henry, and people close to Rodriguez said yesterday that the shortstop believes the trade could be completed within days. A-Rod has told at least one associate that he hopes the Red Sox then sign Roberto Alomar to play second base.


For what it's worth coming from the Neward Star Ledger,

http://www.nj.com/mets/ledger/index.ssf?/b...69101617850.xml

Sausage sandwich vendors on yawkey way is a better more suitable goal

Thanks for that intelligent post. Please people, bring something to the table!

First time post and I definitely would not want to have Alomar at Fenway. He is generally considered a "problem" guy in the clubhouse. When he was younger and his skills were high, such behavior was overlooked. That type of player kind of goes against what I think Theo and the Trio are trying to keep in the Red Sox clubhouse, the dirt dogs.

Great forum, though work production suffers with all this required reading.

I not big on Alomar. But at about $2 million for one year if we get gold glove defense and hit him 9th it might be safe move.

Tommorow night is the deadline for offering arbitration. The deadline for offering a contract (tendering or non-tendering) is Dec. 20. I'm pretty sure Drew is arbitration eliglible, so if STL doesn't offer it, he becomes a de facto FA.

Certainly Drew has a lot of potential, but we all know he's had his problems staying healthy. Still an intriguing thought.

The sad part is that the Sox should have had Texiera several years ago, but for Dandy Dan's negotiating "skills". The Sox drafted Texiera in the 9th round in 1999 (?), but couldn't come to terms with him (I think Boras was/is his agent). So, he goes to Georgia Tech, puts up big numbers, and becomes a first round pick in 2002.

I don't think we'll be seeing too many scenarios like the above with Theo and Co. in charge.

OK
Mueller, Alomar, and A-Rod-
What team in the major leauges has a better infield??!?!?!?