Pozos Stick
Dec 18 2003, 07:26 PM
QUOTE(Rustjive @ Dec 18 2003, 07:10 PM)
QUOTE(Pozos Stick @ Dec 18 2003, 07:08 PM)
QUOTE(Rustjive @ Dec 18 2003, 06:55 PM)
VT: That may be the case, but it's obviously much more preferable to have a message board that resembles everyday, intelligent (of course, this is subjective) conversation that doesn't sound like a bunch of kids amped up on sugar and caffeine. No one needs to tell the world of their every emotion. Stress is no excuse for bogging down the rest of the world with pages and pages of drivel. No one absolutely has to type it up for the world to see that they "like the deal"; without providing some sort of justification other than "Manny is a bad clubhouse influence" is not thinking before posting. Although this thread has grown large and quite unmanageable, and therefore impossible to look through, to think that you are the first person who thinks "Manny is bad clubhouse influence" is being irrational.
I personally think the moderators do a fairly good job around here, considering the number of people who have definately never read board rules and the number who make irrelevant posts to the discussion just to call out the Barstaff.
Meanwhile, you continue to ignore the barstaff's request to hit the report button and add to the problem by making an irrelevant post to the discussion (which, I might add, I also am guilty of with this post).
Hey, the beginning of my post was very relevant to the discussion with Renteria.
But if you want, I can add some relevancy.
I hope this deal gets done, because Manny is such a bad clubhouse influence.
That's better.
And I still think the deal goes down ... even though Lucky Lucchino says it's dead. [whisper]posturing[/whisper].
bubba63
Dec 18 2003, 07:26 PM
My previous post was just a sampling of what may be the future for OUR Beloved Sox! Be patient, people! The Red Sox management is very experienced with high financing. There will be a resolution to all of this soon. The bigger questions will be how do we keep the rest of the line-up happy with all this cash being thrown around. My fears are there will be a sense of an unlimited supply. I am sure JWH will get control of this soon if he already has not.
Rok n Rol baseball, isn't this fun?
Edmund Dantes
Dec 18 2003, 07:26 PM
Lucchino is wrong... Hick's intransigence is the reason this deal is dead. He is the one that keep pushing for us to eat ARod's contract and a portion of Manny's contract. The union did what it was supposed to do.
edit -- Grammar
Valmoose
Dec 18 2003, 07:28 PM
Wow. Looks like Lucchino really ticked off Orza. Orza seemed floored that Lucchino simply overlooked his guidelines about value. Major personality conflict there, ...who woulda thunk it? That's why Werner is taking over, I assume.
Remember the Millar controversy? The word that describes this Sox management team is "chutzpah." Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't. But the deal, like a vampire you've stomped, shot, knifed, beheaded, run over with a tractor, but have neglected to put a wooden stake through its heart ...is STILL ALIVE!...according to Gammons, who's suddenly Mr. Optimist.
Oi vey.
Meanwhile, over at SOSH, Maalox has locked the Arod/Manny deal thread at 370,000 views and opened up a Post-deadline thread. Perhaps we should do that here as well. This thread is too big and clunky.
Bump Bailey
Dec 18 2003, 07:28 PM
QUOTE(Cluso @ Dec 18 2003, 07:21 PM)
"I think he's womanly actually."
???!!!??? (hoping that was just a really POOR choice of words)
No- these words are spot on how I feel. I and I'm pretty sure the organization are tired of this guy's bitchy expression and alienation of the media. Nomar doesn't like the media. Then Nomar is not cut out to be here because the media is not going away......we, the fans, demand it. Don't forget that poignant point. We are the one's who read the papers.
Theo-logist78
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
Hart is indicating the window is still open.
PSF
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
Yet John Hart is here saying it may or may not still happen.
teddykgb
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
yeah hart sounds 100% different than the lucchino stuff
very weird, almost sounds like the sox are playing games
Theo-logist78
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
QUOTE(Valmoose @ Dec 18 2003, 07:25 PM)
Wow. Looks like Lucchino really ticked off Orza. Orza seemed floored that Lucchino simply overlooked his guidelines about value. Major personality conflict there, ...who woulda thunk it? That's why Werner is taking over, I assume.
Remember the Millar controversy? The word that describes this Sox management team is "chutzpah." Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't. But the deal, like a vampire you've stomped, shot, knifed, beheaded, run over with a tractor, but have neglected to put a wooden stake through its heart ...is STILL ALIVE!...according to Gammons, who's suddenly Mr. Optimist.
Oi vey.
Meanwhile, over at SOSH, Maalox has locked the Arod/Manny deal thread at 370,000 views and opened up a Post-deadline thread. Perhaps we should do that here as well. This thread is too big and clunky.
Who cares what's going on at SOSH
Edmund Dantes
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
Hart is saying there is still an opportunity to a deal. Just not now at this point. They have been cut off. Just tryin to cover ARod and the Ranger's ass.
If opportunity to improve and get flexibility then it will be addressed if in the next couple of days.
Lucchino looks like posturing
onesoxyladee
Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM
Ordonez and A Rod, it would have been so perfect. Two people at fault, Hicks and the Union, if either one of them had realized what is goof for baseball, the deal would have been done. This is a DISASTER! I hope my hopes up way too much for this deal. Dirt Dog posted it was done, and I never thought it wouldn't!
this is a bad day for red sox fans. not only because we don't get the best player in the game, but we have a clubhouse in shambles. What about the comments Millar made....how would Nomar and he be able to be civil????
TallSoxFan1974
Dec 18 2003, 07:30 PM
QUOTE(Theo-logist78 @ Dec 18 2003, 07:26 PM)
Hart is indicating the window is still open.
Texas is caving. You can feel it from here. Sox say it's dead, Texas says there is a chance still.
RedSoxAnni
Dec 18 2003, 07:30 PM
Ted Sarandis said 'EEI will carry an interview with Orza later this evening. No other info right now.
Anni
Bump Bailey
Dec 18 2003, 07:31 PM
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 18 2003, 07:26 PM)
Ordonez and A Rod, it would have been so perfect. Two people at fault, Hicks and the Union, if either one of them had realized what is goof for baseball, the deal would have been done. This is a DISASTER! I hope my hopes up way too much for this deal. Dirt Dog posted it was done, and I never thought it wouldn't!
this is a bad day for red sox fans. not only because we don't get the best player in the game, but we have a clubhouse in shambles. What about the comments Millar made....how would Nomar and he be able to be civil????
I'm not angry with you. Just get ahold of yourself. Please.
j_sunne
Dec 18 2003, 07:32 PM
Well, it's a good sign that as the Sox are walking away, Hart is still open to discussion.
The Sox are holding the line.....
The ball is in your court cowboy.
sfh57
Dec 18 2003, 07:32 PM
On ESPN:
Hart sounds like his org. is leaving the door open to still making a deal. I guess the Sox need to get on with THEIR business until the Rangers call them. <_<
MargoAdamsLoveChild
Dec 18 2003, 07:32 PM
My prediction:
Lucchino/Werner/ et. al have them right where they want them. They blame the union, say the deal is dead. Now the Rangers are on the defensive, stammering, saying "uh, uh, uh, but, uh, the deal COULD still happen, uh, I want my mommy!"
They'll let this blow over, there'll be secret talks over the weekend, and Monday at noon, Larry Lucchino will hold a press conference.
I tell ya, this ownership is like special ops.
Just a thought!
teddykgb
Dec 18 2003, 07:33 PM
the question and answer period seems less optimistic though
i wouldn't say that there's much of a shot
TallSoxFan1974
Dec 18 2003, 07:33 PM
QUOTE(MargoAdamsLoveChild @ Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM)
My prediction:
Lucchino/Werner/ et. al have them right where they want them. They blame the union, say the deal is dead. Now the Rangers are on the defensive, stammering, saying "uh, uh, uh, but, uh, the deal COULD still happen, uh, I want my mommy!"
They'll let this blow over, there'll be secret talks over the weekend, and Monday at noon, Larry Lucchino will hold a press conference.
I tell ya, this ownership is like special ops.
Just a thought!
I totally agree. Texas is now in panic mode.
Edmund Dantes
Dec 18 2003, 07:34 PM
It needs to probably happen before Non Tender time. If not I think the Rangers might just eat it, take there ball and go home.
Rothrock
Dec 18 2003, 07:34 PM
Hart just said in the Rangers press conference "There's still the possiblity of a deal, and there's the possibility of no deal."
He also just said "With the possibility of a deal, I won't deal with questions or speculation"
I'm paraphrasing these quotes, btw.
"It's possible the deal is dead."
Basically, it was a wash, he didn't say the deal was dead and he didn't say it was alive.
I can't hear the questions being asked at all....and I just lost the stream.
Sorry for such a disjointed first post.
bosson01
Dec 18 2003, 07:34 PM
Rangers conference on - no more conversation between clubs and players. Opportunity for deal or no deal. Hicks entered into this to make club better quicker. If not, they want to keep ARod. That's how it looks right now and we're happy with that. Opportunity to improve club with this deal will be looked at over next several days. Still have possibility of making trade.
Q&A (can't hear questions, only answers)
In last conversation w/ Hicks. liklihood is deal is dead. But still a chance.
RS can do anything they want to do. From Rangers standpoint they can make deal work - Hicks requirements haven't been met. Excited to have Alex back. No change to Hicks requirements since this started.
It really is time to move on. Free agent market in full swing, need to go on and make other deals to prepare for coming year.
Idiots just cut it off, guess Irvin's more important.
I can assure you all of one thing: Buck Showalter is more pissed than we are.
MillarsMullet
Dec 18 2003, 07:34 PM
I'll bet Theo and the Trio stopped returning calls and this is Hicks way of reaching out. You are so right, they ARE caving!
John Hart really didn't say anything!
this is a roller coaster!
Deal is on . . .deal is off . . . deal is on . . . deal is kind of sort of . . .
Art Martone
Dec 18 2003, 07:35 PM
Looks like it's dead:
URGENT
By RONALD BLUM
AP Sports Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - The Alex Rodriguez trade was declared "dead" by the Boston Red Sox on Thursday after commissioner Bud Selig ended talks to restructure the shortstop's $252 million contract.
The Red Sox and Rodriguez had tried to rework the deal so it would be acceptable to the players' union, which rejected the changes Wednesday. Boston hoped to get the AL MVP from the Texas Rangers for Manny Ramirez in a swap of baseball's highest-paid players.
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead," Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said. "The players' association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today."
ThePlayer
Dec 18 2003, 07:37 PM
Can someone please fill me in, I've been out for a while. I know the deadline passed...but doesn't that just mean that the Sox can no longer talk with Arod? If so, no biggie as they really don't need to talk to him anymore as Arod has already agreed to shave his contract. It's the sox and the union that could not reach a deal...so can they no longer talk? Sox and Hicks can still talk....correct?
onesoxyladee
Dec 18 2003, 07:38 PM
Maybe it's all just business strategy from Theo and the Trio. Texas was pushing for money in hopes of us caving. Now that they see we're not that stupid, they will lower the demands and the deal can get done. Hicks has to know how much he needs this deal. I know it can be worked out, I just hate the deadline stuff. Makes for some good anxiety though.
apb
Dec 18 2003, 07:49 PM
I hope this deal is really dead. Red Sox Nation has a collective case of methophorical blue balls after being teased for the last week and 1/2. We've been hearing rumors over this thing since last Fall. I'm tired of it. Give me Manny, Nomar, Schill, Foulke, Pedro and the rest of the boys and I'll take my chances. I don't care about 2005. I'm focused on 2004, and if they win it, everything will take care of itself. I doubt Nomar is going to leave. He'll be a god in New England. All will be forgiven. So forget about ARod. We've got the horses we need right now, lets ride 'em.
FenwayFan76
Dec 18 2003, 07:51 PM
Sorry to say it, but i think it's time to move on, folks. It may simply posturing by Lucchino, but things are looking extremely remote at best. Now it's time to see if Nomar is our starting SS in the spring. My bet is that he's traded for prospects or 2B with Rich Aurilia taking over.
Hope I'm wrong. Well see.
MillarsMullet
Dec 18 2003, 07:52 PM
Art, this is a game. it is much more sophisticated than bartering with a car salesman over an extended warrenty. Just because the AP printed it doesn't make it the end. Hart was reaching out - otherwise what was the point of the press conference? Larry was doing the fake walk out and this was Hart saying, wait, maybe I can talk to the manager and see what we can do about this price . . .
onesoxyladee
Dec 18 2003, 07:52 PM
Guys, someone help me with this. After reading 1,000 articles all across the country on insider today....the common fact was that Selig may challenge the union and essentially it would go to an arbitrator. Where are all these talks? I never heard anything mentioned other than the deadline. Can selig still challenge it? AHHH
BoSoxWin
Dec 18 2003, 07:54 PM
I'm not going to worry about it. From what I've seen of Theo & the Trio this organization always has a plan B. If that turns out to be Nomar playing out the year without a contract, so be it.
This may end up being a good thing if it doesn't go through. They could also re-sign Nomar and if you look at Manny's deal 2004 is the peak. If the ultimate goal is to move Manny and his contract for flexibility then it will only become easier as each year passes and the yearly and total liability decreases.
apb
Dec 18 2003, 07:54 PM
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 18 2003, 07:49 PM)
Guys, someone help me with this. After reading 1,000 articles all across the country on insider today....the common fact was that Selig may challenge the union and essentially it would go to an arbitrator. Where are all these talks? I never heard anything mentioned other than the deadline. Can selig still challenge it? AHHH
ARod has said publically he won't waive his no-trade if the union doens't sign off on it. So ARod has given Gene Orza a veto on this. So Selig can't force it to arbitration.
Shawnr76
Dec 18 2003, 07:54 PM
Where in thee hell does Peter Gammons get his info from?
There were no talks after 5 and yet Gammons says it will be done this weekend......What a Meatstick
Nuf Ced
Dec 18 2003, 07:54 PM
12/18/2003 7:12 PM ET Statement from Larry LucchinoRed Sox President/CEO Larry Lucchino issued the following statement tonight upon the expiration of the deadline for negotiations between the Boston Red Sox and Alex Rodriguez:
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead. The Players Association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today. Reports that negotiations are continuing and shall continue are inaccurate.
"Once again we want to thank the many people who worked so diligently and in good faith in an effort to consummate this transaction."
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bo...t=.jsp&c_id=bos
Edmund Dantes
Dec 18 2003, 07:54 PM
Selig can NOT challenge a player's right to invoke his no trade clause which is what ARod basically said he would do if they (MLB) tried to force this down his and the Union's throat. So Selig is powerless unless ARod suddenly flip flops and says he wants to really restructure outside the bounds of the Union proposal.
MargoAdamsLoveChild
Dec 18 2003, 07:56 PM
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 18 2003, 07:49 PM)
Guys, someone help me with this. After reading 1,000 articles all across the country on insider today....the common fact was that Selig may challenge the union and essentially it would go to an arbitrator. Where are all these talks? I never heard anything mentioned other than the deadline. Can selig still challenge it? AHHH
Selig won't send it to an arbiter, because:
a.) Because of the CBA language, he would most likely lose it;
b.) It would take too long and essentially hold up the entire MLB free agent market;
c.) A-Rod has stated that he will not abide by an agreement that is not acceptable to the Players' Association. And even if Selig won in arbitration it would not be deemed acceptable by the MLBPA.
Sox2004Champs
Dec 18 2003, 07:56 PM
QUOTE(Stapleton on the Bench @ Dec 18 2003, 07:46 PM)
I hope this deal is really dead. Red Sox Nation has a collective case of methophorical blue balls after being teased for the last week and 1/2. We've been hearing rumors over this thing since last Fall. I'm tired of it. Give me Manny, Nomar, Schill, Foulke, Pedro and the rest of the boys and I'll take my chances. I don't care about 2005. I'm focused on 2004, and if they win it, everything will take care of itself. I doubt Nomar is going to leave. He'll be a god in New England. All will be forgiven. So forget about ARod. We've got the horses we need right now, lets ride 'em.
Amen my friend. I have been saying that from the outset. These players are professionals paid alot of $$$ to get over problems both on and off the job. Let me repeat, they are paid ALOT of money to get over this stuff and as far as Millar's statements...well that will blow over as well. Every team/company in the world has one of these guys that talk too much/too soon.
Sox will prevail this season. I know it. Adversity is what makes champion teams rise to the occassion.
BoSoxWin
Dec 18 2003, 07:56 PM
Selig & the lawyers analyzed the BA and found that they had no grounds to challenge, so that isn't going to happen
Bump Bailey
Dec 18 2003, 07:57 PM
QUOTE(nufced @ Dec 18 2003, 07:51 PM)
12/18/2003 7:12 PM ET Statement from Larry Lucchino[/B]
Red Sox President/CEO Larry Lucchino issued the following statement tonight upon the expiration of the deadline for negotiations between the Boston Red Sox and Alex Rodriguez:
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead. The Players Association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today. Reports that negotiations are continuing and shall continue are inaccurate.
"Once again we want to thank the many people who worked so diligently and in good faith in an effort to consummate this transaction."
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/bo...t=.jsp&c_id=bos Nufced- this is all in fun, but shouldn't you be admonishing yourself right now?
FenwayFan76
Dec 18 2003, 07:58 PM
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 18 2003, 07:49 PM)
Guys, someone help me with this. After reading 1,000 articles all across the country on insider today....the common fact was that Selig may challenge the union and essentially it would go to an arbitrator. Where are all these talks? I never heard anything mentioned other than the deadline. Can selig still challenge it? AHHH
And what happens if he tries fighting the union? This will just get dragged on for weeks. Theo has some pressing matters to attend to for this year and beyond (e.g. contracts for Pedro, Nomar?, D. Lowe, and/or Varitek). Prolonging this will only take time away from completing putting this championship-caliber team together. Besides, A-Rod is saying he won't proceed without the blessing of the players association.
1941.406
Dec 18 2003, 07:58 PM
ARod should have advised the union that he WILL benefit from re-structuring his deal, just from the standpoint that he will be in a much stronger endorsement market.
GaryGeiger
Dec 18 2003, 08:00 PM
QUOTE(onesoxyladee @ Dec 18 2003, 07:10 PM)
five years, 20 million annually? Is he joking? Sorry, Pedro, I like ya, but not that much. Have you checked out the market lastely? Didn't his latest interview say before spring training? Now it's Christmas, boy is he fickle!
Well, it was posted in the wrong subject, with no link. I don't for one minute believe that post. The Sox will never give Pedro $20 mollion for any year, never mind mutliple years. As for the later part of what that posted said, forget it.
BoSoxGirl75
Dec 18 2003, 08:00 PM
Just thought everyone would like to know that Jerry Remy's group on yahoo is having an interview with Tom Werner.
Someone asked Werner the question if there would be more transactions/trades in the off season, Werner responded with these exact words:
QUOTE
i think theo may get an hour off this evening, but we still have goals - we won't quit until the bell rings
No one has asked anything about Arod, but I think that they were told not too...I'm not sure though.
If he says anything of importance I will include it here. It also seems with the Hart press conference that Werner might be taking over...as opposed to Lucchino... but still does not look good at all. Gammons is going to be on weei soon.
FenwayFan76
Dec 18 2003, 08:00 PM
If you listen really close you can hear Millar calling Nomar rigbht now...
"Nomar, buddy ol' pal. You know I was just kidding, right? Right?"
*click*
"Hello?"
onesoxyladee
Dec 18 2003, 08:08 PM
I know we're all upset and naturally pointing fingers...but does it anger anyone else that A Rod wouldn't let Selig challenge this. The Union chose money over his happiness, and he backs them? That is so annoying.
.406
Dec 18 2003, 08:08 PM
QUOTE(Art Martone @ Dec 18 2003, 07:32 PM)
Looks like it's dead:
URGENT
By RONALD BLUM
AP Sports Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - The Alex Rodriguez trade was declared "dead" by the Boston Red Sox on Thursday after commissioner Bud Selig ended talks to restructure the shortstop's $252 million contract.
The Red Sox and Rodriguez had tried to rework the deal so it would be acceptable to the players' union, which rejected the changes Wednesday. Boston hoped to get the AL MVP from the Texas Rangers for Manny Ramirez in a swap of baseball's highest-paid players.
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead," Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said. "The players' association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today."
I truly believe this is partly posturing by the Sox. Looking at Lucchino's statement he never states that there is no possibility of a deal in the near future.
Lucchino states:
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead." This is true, the deal as was proposed by the Sox is dead, any deal subsequent to the one they propsed to the MLBPA would be a different incarnation of the original propsal.
Then some Lucchino drama:
"The Players Association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today." Places the emphasis on the union and possibly tries to weaken their stance.
Lastly:
"Reports that negotiations are continuing and shall continue are inaccurate." Another truth, the deadline has passed and negotiations with A-Rod and the Sox are over. He never said that the Rangers and A-Rod or the union and Boras couldn't negotiate.
All in all a cryptic message that never quite comes out and states that there is no possibilty that going forward a deal gets done. I believe that soon (within 5 days) the Sox will have A-Rod and Maggs.
Pozos Stick
Dec 18 2003, 08:12 PM
QUOTE(MargoAdamsLoveChild @ Dec 18 2003, 07:29 PM)
My prediction:
Lucchino/Werner/ et. al have them right where they want them. They blame the union, say the deal is dead. Now the Rangers are on the defensive, stammering, saying "uh, uh, uh, but, uh, the deal COULD still happen, uh, I want my mommy!"
Margo is spot on here.
The Red Sox have all of the leverage at this point. As it's been said ad nauseum here, the Rangers need this trade more than the Red Sox. The Lucchino press release is key to all of this. If you notice, he lays the blame at the feet of the union, not Hicks and the Rangers. Lucchino can't lay the blame on Hicks & company because that would drive the deal into a deeper ditch than the Big Dig. In this scenario, it allows Hicks and the Rangers to save face and revisit the trade discussions — but at the same time the onus is still on Texas, as evidenced by the hardline Lucchino has put up and the open line put up by the Rangers.
I just have the feeling this deal isn't dead.
onesoxyladee
Dec 18 2003, 08:15 PM
QUOTE(.406 @ Dec 18 2003, 08:05 PM)
Lucchino states:
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead." This is true, the deal as was proposed by the Sox is dead, any deal subsequent to the one they propsed to the MLBPA would be a different incarnation of the original propsal.
Then some Lucchino drama:
"The Players Association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today." Places the emphasis on the union and possibly tries to weaken their stance.
Lastly:
"Reports that negotiations are continuing and shall continue are inaccurate." Another truth, the deadline has passed and negotiations with A-Rod and the Sox are over. He never said that the Rangers and A-Rod or the union and Boras couldn't negotiate.
All in all a cryptic message that never quite comes out and states that there is no possibilty that going forward a deal gets done. I believe that soon (within 5 days) the Sox will have A-Rod and Maggs.
A very intelligent interpretation! God, I really, really, hope you're right. I'm not feeling too hopeful right now, but I can't see the brass letting it go down like this. Too many people want it. Fans want it, A Rod wants it, Management wants it, Nomar is sad, Manny probably doesn't know a trade was proposed, it just can't not happen. Hopefully this is all strategy, cause if it's not....
Profanity deleted...
dewey4hof
Dec 18 2003, 08:17 PM
QUOTE
All in all a cryptic message that never quite comes out and states that there is no possibilty that going forward a deal gets done. I believe that soon (within 5 days) the Sox will have A-Rod and Maggs.
I absolutely agree with you on A-Rod, not so sure about Ordonez. They have spent too much energy on this deal to just let A-Rod go. On Ordonez, it just doesn't add up that the Sox would send Williamson and Nomar to Chi-town for him. I believe that the White Sox should be giving up more to the Red Sox for Nomar rather than it being the other way around.
SoxInTheCity
Dec 18 2003, 08:18 PM
QUOTE(.406 @ Dec 18 2003, 08:05 PM)
QUOTE(Art Martone @ Dec 18 2003, 07:32 PM)
Looks like it's dead:
URGENT
By RONALD BLUM
AP Sports Writer
NEW YORK (AP) - The Alex Rodriguez trade was declared "dead" by the Boston Red Sox on Thursday after commissioner Bud Selig ended talks to restructure the shortstop's $252 million contract.
The Red Sox and Rodriguez had tried to rework the deal so it would be acceptable to the players' union, which rejected the changes Wednesday. Boston hoped to get the AL MVP from the Texas Rangers for Manny Ramirez in a swap of baseball's highest-paid players.
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead," Red Sox president Larry Lucchino said. "The players' association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today."
I truly believe this is partly posturing by the Sox. Looking at Lucchino's statement he never states that there is no possibility of a deal in the near future.
Lucchino states:
"The proposed trade between the Boston Red Sox and the Texas Rangers is dead." This is true, the deal as was proposed by the Sox is dead, any deal subsequent to the one they propsed to the MLBPA would be a different incarnation of the original propsal.
Then some Lucchino drama:
"The Players Association's intransigence and the arbitrary nature of its action are responsible for the deal's demise today." Places the emphasis on the union and possibly tries to weaken their stance.
Lastly:
"Reports that negotiations are continuing and shall continue are inaccurate." Another truth, the deadline has passed and negotiations with A-Rod and the Sox are over. He never said that the Rangers and A-Rod or the union and Boras couldn't negotiate.
All in all a cryptic message that never quite comes out and states that there is no possibilty that going forward a deal gets done. I believe that soon (within 5 days) the Sox will have A-Rod and Maggs.
While some may think you're parsing those quotes a little too creatively, I agree that this deal is not over. I sincerely doubt that if Lucchino's secretary (or Henry's) tells him that Hicks is on the phone, he'll say, "Nah, forget it, I don't care if he dropped another $5 mil from his demands."
I don't doubt that JWH, TE and LL are all shrewd, ballsy guys. But I do disagree with anyone who truly believes that "we've got em where we want em." Um, no. I'm sure the brass thought they were going to get this deal done already.
Someone above used the term "metaphorical blue balls." ..., man is that accurate.
Shout out to Leephus Pitch. 'Sup, Shwam?
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