This didn't feel like this belonged in the trade thread. I didn't see the game today but I had a wide grin when I read this AP story on Yahoo!:

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You have to love this guy's passion and the characterization of him being in midseason form.

Completely agree that this guy needs his own thread.

Hell of a game today. He looked nasty on the mound and didn't back down from either the Howard or Rollins shenanigans.

This guy is a STUD. Worth every cent we'll pay to Lowell this year.

Beckett = ACE

Beckett's stuff is filthy. He has a nasty streak in him that will serve us well when the inevitable incident with either NYY or Tampa happens. I can't wait until RJ or one of the Tampa pitchers messes with us, and Beckett is either on the mound or pitching the next day. He seems to have the same mentality as Pedro when it comes to opposing hitters, I wonder who his "Who is ?" happens to be.

Yeah, definitley a good idea to start his own thread. The few games I've got to see on NESN, tells me the AL will have someone to fear.

If Beckett can remain healthy and go 200IP, we have the stud of the future. Captain Jack say's it right when he posted "He seems to have the same mentality as Pedro when it comes to opposing hitters, I wonder who his "Who is ?" happens to be." He seems to take the opposition personally. That's a sign of a winner in my book.

I love players who exhibit passion while playing. That, I think, is the important quality a player can possess. Here's hoping to 200+ IP from Josh, and a great performance from our whole staff. The season could not start any sooner!!!!

Yeah this is what we didn't have last year. Schill can be this kind of guy, and Pedro certainly was. I was so elated to read about this today. It sends a message around the league...don't mess with me. We needed a pitcher that will step up and have that kind of attitude.

Way to be Josh.

Jeter, Arod or Sheffield?

You know he's hitting all three this season....Which one is first???

I do hope it's Jeter. He always goes down in such a dramatic fashion.

I did see the game. And towards the end of the incident, they had a camera on Beckett and a mic, which caught Beckett very clearly...

"F***ing guy, f*** him"

To which Remy chuckled and noted that perhaps the dugout microphone should be turned off.

I'd much rather A-Rod just to see him apologize to Tek for being hit.... I meant to get out of the way, please don't hurt me Mr Varitek!

My fave part of the article;

Rudy Seanez, who participates in ultimate fighting during the offseason, led the relievers’ charge. “I told him he was a little slow,” Francona said of Seanez’ arrival.



God, I hope Beckett can stay healthy this year... he's gonna be a beast...

Seanez=Farnsworth neutralizer

I need some links and clarification (photos?) of Rudy knocking the bejeezus out of someone. I had no idea Rudy brought that element to the table. NICE!

Here's a bit...

Rage in a cage
Red Sox relief pitcher Seanez keeps busy

By Rob Bradford
THE EAGLE-TRIBUNE (NORTH ANDOVER, Mass.)
FORT MYERS, Fla. —
Rudy Seanez refuses to ride motorcycles, and insects make his heavily-tattooed skin crawl. But before you start imagining just another pampered baseball-playing professional, there is one thing you should know about the Red Sox’s new reliever.

“There is probably something wrong with me,” the affable 37-year-old said with a smirk.

After hearing what Seanez has spent his time immersing himself the last few months, it’s hard to argue with his analysis.

For the second straight offseason the hurler has exercised his right pitching arm in an utterly unique fashion. After all, punching people for hours at a time isn’t exactly a chapter in the Baseball Conditioning for Dummies handbook...

I think people should probably temper their expectations of Beckett for the time being. It's nice to call him an ace, but he's never been one. Maybe he's turning the corner, but last year was his career high in innings, and it was only 178 of them. His 117 career ERA+ doesn't scream "Ace" at all. He has serious health questions, and he's moving from a pitcher's park in the NL to a hitter's park in the AL East. Huge difference. I saw MALC mention 18 wins and an ERA of like 3.25, and that's never gonna happen IMO. If he puts up 2004 Pedro numbers I would be pleasantly surprised. His ERA will be closer to four, and if he wins 18 games it means he started a lot more which would be nice. But since some people don't even think he'll make 20 starts, I'd hold back on win totals.

Caspir, Maybe I'm looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, but I have pretty high expectations for this kid. Normally, I would absolutely agree that going from the NL to the AL and from a pitcher's park to a hitter's would hurt a kids productivity.

While I still believe we will see a setback in the ERA due to those factors, I'm hoping that by moving to a less-humid climate where he doesn't have to use a bat (except during a brawl with the Spankees), that he may at least cut down on the blister-related injuries and that he will top 210 IP. I think if we get 30 starts out of him, we could see 18 wins thanks to this offense behind him, even with the inflated WHIP & ERA.

Thanks for the buzzkill, Mr. Happy. Take blisters away and dude is fine. His pitches are nasty. He is a World Series MVP who shut down the Yankees in the Toilet when he was just a lad. He is a stud and with an actual offense behind him, he'll at least flirt with 20 wins. (Barring a barking shoulder or blisters)

I think a 3.50 ERA with about 18 wins is reasonable. He could easily push 20 wins if hes healthy all year given our offense.

Yeah really. Beckett is the most exciting young pitcher since Pedro came to town and I'm gonna get delirious with expectations, and you can't stop me. I love this kid. Serious heterosexual man-love.

FWIW, I saw Beckett pitch 5 innings on 03/16 in Ft. Myers vs. the Twins. My vantage point was not that great (right field line) but he clearly had batters off balance. No one hit him hard and the couple times he let guys on base, he showed good poise and got himself out of jams. IMHO, he showed impressive form for spring. I'm not going to enter into the regular season starts, wins or ERA projection fray, but I'd say (consistent with report from yesterday's start), he's ready to play ball. Game on. Advantage: Beckett.

All you need to know is this:

Josh Beckett once provided some serious chin music to Chuck Norris on a 0-2 count. He then stared Norris down and struck him out looking with a change up right down the middle of the strike zone with the next pitch.

And Norris thanked him for it.

Nuf Ced.

The guy has ace attitude, ace stuff, and ace style, he doesn't have to go the whole way to real ace performance level to get excited about. That would be great, but if it doesn't come, watching him is still a hell of a lot more fun than watching that snoozer Clement, for example. We might as well enjoy it.

Wasn't there an ancient philosophical paradox, provided by Aristotle I think, that posited the conundrum of what would happen if Josh Beckett pitched against Wily Mo Pena? Had something to do with infallibility and the classic illogic of the universe.

My theory on what would happen?

Wily Mo Hits a ball that travels back in time and kills Josh Beckett's grandfather. The whole thing ends with Bronson Arroyo playing guitar at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

Would this be like Superman flying around the Earth really fast, reversing the Earth's rotation, and thus turning back time?

If so, wouldn't this only be possible with west-facing ballparks? If Wily Mo hit an eastward moonshot, I think it would actually accelerate the Earth's rotation, thus speeding up time, so that Wily Mo would be an old man by the time he reached home plate.

This is only my suspicion, though.

That's not true at all. Blisters just happen to be one of his problems. Visits to Dr. Andrews are not made for blisters. I don't care what the Marlin's official story was, he did not get shut down last year because the team was out of it. He's made nine trips to the DL, has suffered tendonitis in his shoulder, and had other health problems related to his arm and elbow. To say it is simply blisters that hold him back is just not true. And I don't really understand this whole World Series argument. What exactly does one series, one time, a few years ago in the playoffs have to do with this season, this time, this year in the regular season? I haven't seen anyone question his mental make up, which is the only way the playoffs would really be relevant. The fact that he pitched well in a World Series has no bearing on his arm trouble. His MRI was cause for enough concern that Mota was thrown into the deal to make us bite. Some people are gonna come scream that it was negotiating but that's bull. You don't squeeze a team trading you Josh Beckett in order to get Guillermo Mota. That's just not logical.

As for flirting with twenty wins, that's pretty trivial. David Wells won 15 games and he wasn't even a good pitcher last year. Ditto for Matt Clement. It's a matter of run support. Now, if he wins twenty, then obviously he has pitched 25-30 games and that would make the previous paragraph a moot point. If he goes 10-4 with a 3.80 ERA, but only makes 17 starts, then is this trade a good one for 2006? Because multiple sources have said there's reason to believe he won't even eclipse 20 starts this year.

I'm not trying to be a downer at all. I'm excited to see what h does this year, and it has the potential to be a great season for him. I just won't get my hopes up and say I expect a 20 win season with an ERA under 3.50 because it isn't in line with his career norms to this point.

LoS, I didn't mean to infer that the thread title should be changed. I actually hadn't seen it. My comment about him never being an ace (to this point) was just a response to another poster, not you.

When a player shines on the biggest stage there is, at that age, against that team, he's earned his rep. You seem to have serious man-love for Marte who has accomplished.....?????.....

So your train of thought is that he's had arm troubles in the past and he's bound to be on the DL? I say if he makes 25-30 starts he gets 20 wins.

I agree with everything you said, and I was pretty worried when I heard those offseason reports about his MRI. But I'm very encouraged by the fact that they have not been going especially slow with him this spring. He's pretty much right where he should be going into the season. If they had serious concerns about his shoulder holding up through the season, I would've expected a lighter workload this spring and perhaps talk of him skipping a start or two early in the season -- pretty much the same caution they're showing with Wells. So that suggests he looks and feels healthy. I hope it holds up.

The injury concerns are, well, a concern. Obviously.

Of course, it seems like every one of those great young ex-Marlins pitchers comes with their own list of medical reasons to be cautious in one's optimism.

Brad Penny - his shoulder was shredded when he arrived in L.A.
A.J. Burnett - has had Tommy John surgery, and has already had elbow soreness this spring
Carl Pavano - Who? Does he even still exist?

Dontrelle Willis seems like the only guy from that bunch who thus far has avoided arm trouble.

Coincidence? I don't know. But, for example, during yesterday's game Remy/Orsillo were talking about the difference in Spring Training workload that Beckett had with the Marlins vs. in Boston. Maybe part of the problem, then, is that the Marlins overwork their young pitchers. Or maybe the Marlins haven't made the proper mechanical adjustments with their pitchers. Or maybe it really is all just bad luck that all the great, young, potential-filled pitchers out of that organization have run into arm trouble.

But I'd like to think that maybe getting out of Florida will, in time, enable all these guys to put their arm troubles behind them. (Except Pavano. Screw him.)

That said, Beckett sure threw like he was healthy yesterday. I'd like to see a bit more command of the fastball, though -- early in the game, when he was throwing almost all fastballs, it seemed to take more pitches than it should have to put guys away. He didn't really get in a good groove until he started mixing in the other pitches - but the fastball is still the bread & butter, and as he rounds into form, I hope there's a little less "around the plate but not over it." If he can paint the corners, he will pitch like an ace this year. When he pitches, at least.

So your response is that you have no response so you'll bring up a player who has nothing to do with this thread in a sad attempt to take a shot at me? Gotcha. Great argument. You should try that in other forums. Oh wait, you do. This is the Sox forum, not PI, so save that stuff for them.

Like I said before your jackassed reply, no one is questioning his make up as a pitcher, so his WS performance is irrelevant. Unless of course winning a World Series means you can never be injured again, in which case someone has some explaining to do to Curt Schilling. And umm Manny, you might want to think before you type again. A player with a history of arm trouble does have a higher likelyhood of re-injuring himself and landing on the DL. So again, form an actual argument, or take the nonsensical crap to a PM.






Agreed on both counts. The spring is encouraging, but his injury problems have been more prevalent in the late season.

Interesting points about the other Florida pitchers. I hadn't thought of it before.

In any event, if he makes an average number of starts then I think he wins 15-18 games minimum because of the offense. That'd be fine with me as long as there's no DL trips in between. Anything better than a 16 win season with a 3.75 ERA would be gravy to me. I just don't want to pencil him in for a Cy Young quite yet.

Hooray, Baseball has officially arrived and Caspir's taking cheap shots at me. You questioned calling Beckett a "stud" based on his WS MVP and complete shutdown of the WS. I was pointing out the irony that you seem to be a big "prospect" guy who gets behind players with a lot of potential who have accomplished diddley squat at the Major League level.

I'm so sorry that I post in PI occaisionally(does that have something to do with this thread???)...The ladies like a well rounded poster.

I'm not picking a fight here, just sticking up for Beckett, who I think will be the ace of the team going forward. I'm attempting an oodle of optimism!

Settle down, peeps, it's all going to be okay. Have been playing MLB 06 The Show, and Beckett is tearing it up. So he'll be fine this season.

I have to agree with Manny here; yeah, Beckett has a history of injury problems, but I think 10 times out of 10 you make that trade (especailly given how Hanley wasn't exactly progressing as fast as most of us expected). Look, if Clement, Arroyo, and Wells can all win 14-15 games last year on the Sox, I'm think ing Beckett will win at least 16-17, even with a trip to the DL. Let's wait to the start of the season before we get our panties all bunched up.

The x factor here is that Jack McKeon is a ****ass. Same goes for that imbecile who manages the Cubs. They ran tons of good young arms into the ground because they apparently have never heard of a pitch count. Let me also say I think pitch counts are too conservative these days, but Baker and McKeon shouldnt be allowed anywhere near a baseball diamond. They have good results, ill give you that, but to me they are Grady Little with better in game management skills. They are like ol' guard the lines Torre - their best quality is that they know when to stay the hell out of the way and let the boys play. This is probably a little harsh, but i strongly disagree with their handling of pitching staffs.



Bartender! Ill take two of whatever he's drinking!

(25 is what caught my eye... in 30 starts - well thats do-able )

Let's relax people. Beckett has great stuff, and maybe the best potential out of any starter out there....however, don't even try to compare him to Pedro. He has never pitched 200 innings, and aside from his stretch against the Yanks in the '03 Series, he hasn't been overly impressive.

Personally, I think he will do well here, but let's not cream ourselves just yet.

MM, I haven't been this excited about a 25 year old since that blond knocked back her fifth yager in a row at the Tile Bar in '03. Are our expectations getting way out of control? Perhaps. But he could be the real deal, and I'll be popping the popcorn and getting ready for his prime years in a BoSox uni. Man I hope he doesn't disappoint. My expectations are very high.

This is part of what I was getting at. I can't say definitively that there's a causal link. But, if you look at the collective injury history of Pavano, Penny, Beckett, and Burnett, it's hard not to suspect that the Marlins might have mismanaged their young arms. And once that leap is made, it's not difficult to make the further leap that unless the damage done was irreversible, these guys should all be less injury-prone the more distance of time that they get from their Marlins days.

At least, I'm prepared to keep telling myself this.



Seriously. Can't we at least wait until we're all sitting in a circle?

People, people ... let's save the hate for the first Yankees series.

Does Beckett have the potential to put out a Cy-caliber season? Yes, he probably does. Will he actually do it and do the signs point to it happening this year? Well, no, not really, but the possibility that he puts it all together in a Halladay or Carpenter - esque fashion does exist for him due to his youth, his stuff, and his successful (if not Cy-caliber) track record.

This spring we have established only two things: he'll probably be very entertaining to watch and he is not injured (yet).

There's really no sense in debating whether or not his arm is going to fall off or whether the blisters will come back. He probably doesn't even know. He's been hurt a bunch before but he seems okay now and he is plenty young. All we can do is watch and hope and make blood sacrifices to the golden idol of Rich Garces we keep in our basements. And step up the blood sacrifices to larger animals if he leaves a start due to "soreness in his throwing arm" and, well, we all know it has to be virgin human sacrifice if he goes on the DL and the medical report includes the term "labrum."

I nominate Caspir as the virgin sacrifice ... if he is this cranky now he will clearly need to be put out of his misery if/when Beckett ACTUALLY gets hurt.

But seriously, I nominate Julian Tavarez, as he'll probably punch Beckett in the shoulder in the first place for "being in his general vicinity" after a poor outing.

I am psyched that the Red Sox were able to acquire Josh Beckett and I refuse to be brought down to earth.

Does this mean that I think he's a lock to win 20-25 games, pitch 250 innings and win the Cy Young each year for the next five seasons? No, I'm not foolish enough to go there. But I do believe he's got the stuff and the makeup to become an above-average pitcher for a long time and there is a very good chance he can become one of the elite pitchers in the game. And while I acknowledge that I'd like to see a cleaner bill of health, I refuse to let any such worries about potential future injuries take away from my excitement.

Plus, he's only 25 years old! How can you not love having a 25-year-old pitcher who already has a 15-win season under his belt and has shown the moxie to succeed in the World Series and win the series MVP? Twenty-five is the age when many great pitchers take off. When Pedro was 25, he had averaged 13 wins a season and while many were excited about his potential, nobody could have predicted the four-year run of brilliance that was to come. This is not to say that I expect Beckett to be equally great, but only to point out that it is hardly unusual to see good players put it all together at this age.

Jim

Let's see......our ace is in the news because he had an innocent scrum with the Phillies over the weekend, while the Yankees ace (R Johnson) is in the news because he's suing the mother of his love child to reclaim the child support he paid (uh, you're an a**hole Randy).

Yes friends, it's good to be a Sox fan.

Viva la Beckett!!

Someone had a LOVE CHILD with RANDY JOHNSON?!?! Well, in HER defense, I suppose desperate times call for desperate measures...

(Haha sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Back to Beckett...

Give teh kid 21!!!

Has anyone seen the MLB 2K6 commercial with Josh and Jeter? Good stuff.

In the FWIW department......JB is by all rights, still a prospect...He is 25 years old and most kids dont make the dance till 26-28, let alone have a WS MVP under their belt....

If he can stay healthy, and make 30 starts, I would be happy as hell with an ERA around 2.5-2.75...Anything north of 3.5 and I would have to reconsider the season being a success......

ERA you ask??????"Well how many games does he win????"Who gives a shit???Wins are more dependent on run support than pitching ability anyway....I think that wins-losses are about as usefull as batting average....Damn near useless stats...


For pitchers, ERA and K/BB are much better indicators of success and for hitters its OBP and Slugging....Before you start jumping up and down, I know there are others but these to me seem to be the big ones....


Having said all that, I think Beckett will have a very nice year and will hopefully spend little to zero time on the DL due to the fact that we have more concern for his health than did the Marlins who it seems, kept running him out and looking for complete games.....(Who gives a rats ass about complete games?????Isnt that what you have a bullpen for????????!!!!!!??????)




Mike

Wins and losses are of course, far less useful in judging a player then batting average, but I agree, you are right, they are similar in that they can be "hollow" or deceptive and rely on a number of variables...

I want to think this is true as well, and have ripped McKeon numerous times on here for his handling of pitchers... but I see no evidence Beckett's blisters are caused by usage patterns... Of course, the blisters I can live with it Does anyone know if he's still using the rodeo cream? If he ever goes on the DL b/c of laxness in prevention/treatment of blisters - then Ill be POd... Of course, he came into camp in the best shape of his life, so he sure seems serious about becoming an ace in Boston...

From what I can tell by interviews, past history, and his overall attitude, I think Beckett was born to pitch in a place like Boston.

The apathy in Miami was killing him.

Well, that and the injuries.

Beckett is pitching vs. #3 pitchers this year, has a great track record, is money in the playoffs and is finally in a big market where he belongs... all signs point to "awesome" this year.

Go Beckett!

I can't wait until Beckett pitches tomorrow. He is the young up and coming ace this team needs.

He appears to be soaking up everything Schilling tells him, all sponge like. I think Schill loves having a youngster to whom he can impart his knowledge.

Schilling = Miyagi.

Beckett = Daniel-san.

Yep. Beckett's start tommorrow is the start I've been looking forward to the most. It probably impacted him pretty postively yesterday, seeing his idol come down to talk with the Red Sox FO about a possible return.

I'm thinking Beckett will finally reach his potential in Boston.

Can tomorrow's game come quick enough.

I hope Josh reads BDD!

Tomorrow is a MUST WIN!

Haha.

RSN needs a big one from Josh tomorrow, Dirtbag aside.