Hey guys.

Now defense is tough to quantify, but at least from the observations I've made, the defense of the Red Sox this season is a lot better.

Lowell and Youk have been great on the corners. A-Gone and Loretta seem to have excellent chemistry. Coco (when healthy) is doing great in CF. Manny is GREATLY improved. Nixon has been decent, Mohr is a great defensive backup, Snow, Cora, Tek etc.

This defense is gelling already.

What do you guys think? Some questions marks get answered already?

The defense should be better than it has in many years especially once Coco and Nixon get back. But will this team suffer offensively is the real question.

Current RATE2 numbers. 100 is average.

Varitek: 114
Youkilis: 114
Loretta: 110
Gonzalez: 109
Lowell: 88
Ramirez: 109
Crisp/Stern/Mohr: 102/68/102
Pena/Nixon: 99/99

You have to like what you see at this point.

Indeed the defense is back to where it needs to be. Despite the two errors today, things are looking good. Manny had that nice play on the slicing liner in the 8th. That's not the kind of thing that makes highlight reels, but it can change the outcome of a game if its played just slightly off.

I'm very impressed at our ability to turn the DP so far this year. And credit for this win goes as much to Manny in Left in the 8th as anybody else. Who would've thought a month ago that Manny would be the defensive genius and a liability at the plate while Torpedo Boat is our best clutch hitter.

I know it was one game, but it seems funny that it could even happen for a single game.

Manny is looking great this year in the field and I only hope he's getting close offensively. That shot to third today almost killed Seattle's 3b-man today.
I think Manny's a pround man and it really bothered him to see how bad people rate him defensively. He's playing so far like he's out to prove people wrong. He's made a couple of really good plays, that one today where he ranged back and leapt just before the wall.
Instead of Manny being Manny, so far this year it's Manny being Yastremski

I think Manny's play on Ichiro's fly ball had a lot to do with being embarrassed by the ball he let drop on Friday(?) night that landed against the very base of the wall. He should've gone for that and instead turned and looked as if he expected it to hit half-way up. He is playing hard and well, but there have been a couple bad decisions. I think WMP in RF has made us appreciate what Manny is giving us in Left. Not sure that's a great sign or not.

Can you briefly explain this to me? I'm not familiar with RATE2. From my eyes, Lowell looks as good as anyone else. Yet his # is low. And Pena's # is higher, which seems ridiculous.

Rate (from Baseball Prospectus):

A way to look at the fielder's rate of production, equal to 100 plus the number of runs above or below average this fielder is per 100 games. A player with a rate of 110 is 10 runs above average per 100 games, a player with an 87 is 13 runs below average per 100 games, etc.

Rate2 is just adjusts for league difficulty and normalizes defensive stats over time.

How is it calculated, though?

As steveoh alluded to, Pena being good and Mowell being below average doesn't seem to make much sense.

And Pena over 30 points better than Stern?

I've often heard defensive metrics are flawed, and this would seem to be a good example of this...

BPs defensive metrics are flawed, and PMR/ZR/UZR (when available), etc. are better metrics. However, it's kind of stupid to judge defense over a 12-game sample.

I agree FRAR, FRAA, and RATE aren't the best but it's something and the sample size is extremely small.

Stern has 102 and Mohr has 68. I knew that, it was just a typo.

How many more weeks until Manny gets bored with playing D?

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/st...mit&timeFrame=1

We are currently #1 in MLB in fielding percentage, having only committed 12 errors. I didn't realize this until I came upon it. This has undoubtedly helped some mediocre pitching and hitting get us to a 23-14 record at this point. Lowell and Gonzalez have been great, but it seems Youkilis has been much better than expected, as well as WMP in CF. Manny looks sharp this year as well.

Youk has been left in late one-run games and there has rarely been a mention of it. Is there a need for Snow on the roster?

Anyhow, some general discussion of our defensive prowess can go here. It has been a pleasure to not hemorrhage unearned runs as in previous years.

Bosockboy, thanks for the fielding stats chart. Guess it goes to show a team can swap out its entire infield (for the right guys, of course) and improve. Lowell and Gonzalez being together previously in FLA helps I'm sure, although there's not as much synergy between 3rd and short as between short and 2B. Props to Theo, thanks for the current edition Red Sox, looking good so far, and of course, we fans deserve the best.

Boston is currently ninth in team DER at .715 per BP. That's good. That's nowhere near best in MLB.

Yep, but it is a big improvement from last year, when they were 23rd in MLB at .692.

I've seen some numbers that indicate that Gonzalez isn't such a hot shortstop. However, from what I've seen he looks pretty good out there- makes the easy plays, makes some tough plays look easy, turns just about every double play opportunity. Plus, Trupiano said he's the best shortstop he's seen since Ozzie Smith. That's saying something- although Trupiano seems to have a more "old school" approach to watching baseball. What am I missing? Are defensive metrics that iffy, or does he just appear to be good in a subjective, smooth plays/athletic kind of way?

Agon has an inherent feel for the position and situations. I see him adapt constantly to handle the play that must be made. Agon adjusts his body to catch the ball in a way that allows him to make the toss or throw required to beat the runner. That to me puts him in an elite group of shortstops. The pitchers will tell you who is great at a position and it's my belief the pitchers Agon plays behind know he's special.

1) You can't trust your eyes.
2) This belongs in the AGon thread...

I'd forgotten all about Snow being on the team. When was the last time he played?

Francona obviously does not see him as a defensive upgrade over Youks.

Especially when the Red Sox as a team coming into the game tonight led the majors with a .991 Fielding Percentage.

Youk has been playing an awesome first base all season long. There really is no need to bring Snow during the late innings.

At this point Choi should really be brought up. Snow isn't adding much in terms of offense where Choi could. So far this year in AAA Choi's stats are .263/.427/.411/.838

Was thinking about this just this morning: I can't see any holes in the defense right now (even Manny's getting the job done). And if we want to keep WMP in the lineup, our defense gets worse when Coco comes back (assuming WMP moves to right). For the sake of the defense, not just the offense, we need to move Coco to right if/when he returns. Bye, Trot!

And I agree that Snow is not needed on this team. Let Youks eat innings at 1st, and bring Choi's bat up to the Show.

Don't get too far ahead of yourself.
WMP is playing an adequate CF right now, but for the long haul, he is not the guy you want out there. I think he gets terrible reads on balls and takes odd routes. There have been 3 or 4 incidents where he has broken back and then been unable to make up the ground on a ball in front of him. That will add up over 162 games.
Coco has only been out there for 5 games, and to tell you the truth, it seemed so long ago, I can barely remember him out there, but he is a better CF than WMP. Coco in right is not an option because while he can cover the ground, he has a weak arm, maybe a notch or two better than Damon's but weak nonetheless.
I'd have to agree with everyone who says WMP is not a finished product and still has much work to do before he breaks into the starting line up at the expense of Nixon.

Yeah, but his career stats and 2006 stats both suggest that he's better in CF than RF (or LF). I see those problems you're seeing, too, but I also see a huge man covering ground fast to make up for those mistakes. The DFTs show WMP at 109 in CF this year, an above-average performance. Looking at ZR, WMP is at .889 in CF, suggesting that he's benefitted in DFTs by getting more chances than expected in a small sample size, but also suggesting that WMP is a solid MLB-level CF based on 2006 stats. His career ZR of .869 in CF pretty much says the same thing.

Coco Crisp's career ZR in CF is .863. By career ZR stats, Crisp is roughly equal to WMP. By DFTs, WMP is much better, 108 to 90.

I'm ready to see how Crisp's admittedly weak arm does in RF. Just because Trot and WMP are platooned, it doesn't mean that WMP has to play RF.

Who would've thought before this season that Trot's OPS against lefties and righties would be within .10 of each other. I want to see WMP in the lineup, but I think Trot's improved performance against LHP no longer warrants his automatic removal against lefties. When Crisp returns, I don't envy Francona's task of divying up playing time between Crisp, Nixon & WMP.

Where the hell did his power go?

Last night the Sox tied the AL record of consecutive errorless games at 15. They tied the Texas Rangers who set that mark in Aug '96. The Cardinals set the NL and MLB record of 16 consecutive errorless games in July/Aug '92.

Hopefully they will break the AL record today and break the MLB record on Friday at Florida.

Make history!

Wasn't there an error that was changed during this steak though? I don't remember it but someone told me that an error was given and that they changed it afterwards.

Yes, one was changed, so it really wasn't an error. Loretta? tried to make an over the shoulder kind of catch. Hit his glove and then the ground. It was a hard play but if it had stayed an error, it would have been hard to argue.

If they match and/or break the MLB record in 5 years, nobody will remember that anyway.

True, just like they gave Joe D a hit on an error at Yankee stadium to keep his streak alive. All that matters is whats in the record books and the Sox defense will be in there for 2006.

Good thing we'll have the home scorekeepers to work with today.

And it's a good thing we don't have a "history" with Florida. What're the chances, with the record on the line, that the Yankees (or Cardinals) scorekeeper would let us get through 9 innings without finding an error somewhere?

Broke the AL record and tied the MLB recoed for error-free games at 16!

Coco - The catch of the year!

Yeah, the fact that the Sox went from worst to first in the defensive rankings does not surprise me with that catch that Coco made. All around great defense in this game, with Lowell throwing out Chavez at first, Youk with the stab at first, and Coco saving the game!!

I have never seen such sound defense played for such a long stretch before. You go watch some games from last year and it makes you laugh to see some of the plays our defense would make last year, especially in the infield. Coco's catch was INSANE.

Coco is the man for making that catch.

I'm already of the opinion the 04 team cannot compare position by position to this team defensively. Tell me one everyday player better defensively on the 04 team than this one, I rate Crisp and Damon and Manny and Manny a draw

You think it's tough to measure defense? Here's the only metric you need. This thread has been up for two months, and we're only two pages deep. Nothing to bitch about.

Coco with the play of the year so far tonight...just tremendous.

EDIT: Correction - I guess I'm the first on page 3.

Rowand had that great catch earlier this year that broke his face but I don't remember the circumstances for that one. Coco's catch was just crazy though.

Rowand's catch was made more great by the fact he crashed into the wall like Jeter's catch became amazing because he dove into the stands after the catch.

Did you see that catch Coco made??

Damon wouldn't have had it.

The fact that the game was -- for all practical purposes -- on the line is what made Coco's catch so incredible. (Well, that and the fact that he got a great break on it, he used every bit of his unparalleled speed to get there, he completely laid out for it, and somehow managed to hang on to it, all while defying gravity, common sense and my eyes.)

I guess Red Bull does give you wings, anyone see the shot of him drinking it during the bottom of the inning?

Good one!!!!

That Papelbon. He's got Haht.

Definitely. First thought I had when I saw that.

I just love watching a great defensive team. Especially when that team also has a great offense. And even more when its the Sox.

Oh. My. God. What a catch. I still can't believe Coco did that. Just wow.

This team is so incredibly fun to watch right now. This defense is just leaps and bounds beyond any other Sox team I can remember (yeah, okay, I'm pretty young, so it's not all that much). I was a little dubious of the whole "runs prevented" theory that Jed Hoyer must have explained about 8 times on various TV shows over the winter, but, uh, yeah, I'm buying it now, Jed. Doesn't hurt that we can kinda mash, too.

Coco's catch raises a question for me about defensive metrics, such as range factor.

Coco went a long way to get that ball because he was shaded well toward right center. But from a straightaway CF position, he wouldn't have had to go very far to get that ball.

In reality -- we saw it with our own eyes -- Coco showed that he has one hell of a range.

But statistically, would that play show up in range factor as Coco simply going a little ways toward LF from the straightaway CF position, no big deal?

In short, would range factor truly reflect how much ground Crisp is capable of covering in chasing down a batted ball?