Link to NY Post Story, but it will appear in SI this week...

Doesn't surprise me. And Torre's comment seems to ignore that Jeter makes almost as much as A-Rod, and that their combined salaries exceed the combined salaries of Kansas City and Florida.

People confuse "overrated" with "bad." Jeter is a great baseball player, but almost by necessity is overrated given his personality, team, etc.

This really shouldn't bum him out much. I'm sure they'd all say he's still a great player.

How is AROD 3rd on the list? That makes no sense, and I think Torre may be right when he brings up the jealousy line.

I'd have thought that Alex would have come in first as well. Maybe it's 'cuz I dislike him so. . .

Agreed - it's not A-Rod's fault his manager is stupid and not taking advantage of his full value by letting him play SS. As a Sox fan - I'll take Jeer at SS and A-Rod at his weaker position where he's only average defensively, ANY DAY.

But, Jeter is overrated. He's a good hitter, weak in the field, and completely overrated.

I suppose in a certain context you could say Jeter is overrated. I don't agree that he is the MOST overrated though. His statistics are not always glaring but he's among the best 2-strike hitters I've ever seen (among other things).

A-Rod being 3rd on this list, however, is absurd. To JJ's point, he may be under-utilized at 3B as opposed to SS but he still made the transition extraordinarily well.

I can see Carlos Beltran being on this list. I think we need to compile our own list. Any nominees?

"Overrated" is subjective, so I won't argue that point with you, but I wouldn't call him "weak" in the field. I'd take him over just about any shortstop in recent Boston history.

Jeter is way overrated.

I dare say that he lost the game monday night by not catching the fly ball and his baserunning MISTAKE.

Capt. Intangibles is a media creation and if he was making $1 million than ok, but not at his salary. I wonder how often YES showed those 2 highlights over and over instead of him diving into the stands LAST year in their place. To be fair it would be hard to live up to that salary.

If Beltran wasn't on the list than I would of had to nominate him otherwise, Torii Hunter.

When the guy who comes in first was named on a whole 9 percent of the ballots, I don't think any really strong statement is being made. There must have been a 45-way tie at 1%.

What does surprise me is I did not see this thread at 7:00 this morning. I think JTB hit the nail on the head. He is overrated, but that's not to be confused with not being very good. Arod on the other hand, how is he anywhere near the top of that list?

Post-season struggles with a high market team I presume.

Hitting .276 in the post season with the Yankees is hardly enough to justify one of the game's greatest players ever to be called overrated.

Maybe a lot of guys around the league don't like him personally, and they had some bias when casting their votes?

Maybe his 3B D than? It is a little odd that he is on the list. I wonder if anyone voted Ortiz or Manny?

I think you may have read it wrong. The article says that Jeter was named on 9 percent of the ballots as the most overrated player. I read it as meaning that the players made a list and he was number one on 9 percent meaning that we have no idea how many he was named maybe 2 or 3. So, he could have been named on 75 percent for all we know, but he was number 1 on 9 percent. I may have just made that more confusing but whatever, i think my point was made

That's easy. Salary was obviously taken into consideration, and how can anyone live up to $25M per year? Also, think of all of the times he has been referred to as "possibly the greatest player ever" (at least in NY markets since he got there). When he hits into a DP in the 9th inning with the tying run on 3rd against a pitcher in a watered down league due to expansion with a 4.50 ERA, any player on that field is going to question whether he is worth the "greatest player" attention he receives.

The funny thing here is that everyone is questioning the results - it's not like this was voted on by sportswriters. If anyone should be given credibility on answering this question, it's the players themselves.

You're right, I misread it initially. I don't think it changes my main point, though, that 9 percent is too small a portion of the overall vote to get too excited about.

See, I don't get the impression that the players were given the choice to nominate the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. most overrated players. I think it was pretty cut and dry: Hey, who do you think is the most overrated player in the game?

470 players is a significant representation as it represents over 50% of the players currently on 25-man rosters. But I don't read too much into this. I think the "player-hating" factor needs to be taken into consideration here. Look at the top 3 guys named on this list. They all play in NYC where guys are apt to get the most exposer and from there, are more likely to have that exposure spread nationally. If anything, I think that New York has actually been voted the most overrated as far as this goes. The more I think about this, the more I realize it's a non-story.

Defensively? I'd take Pokey Reese, Alex Cora, Orlando Cabrera and Alex Gonzalez over him defensively, to start. I know a lot of people don't like defensive metrics here, but the fact is, they keep coming up with more sophisticated ways of measuring it, and Jeter keeps coming up near the bottom.

Still a Hall of Famer though.

Well if we're considering salary, Chan Ho Park and his 15 mil get my vote.
His numbers will support him being one of the top 5 all time. Particularly given that he was a middle infielder which next to none of the game's best hitters were, and a gold glove middle infielder at that.

I think it's telling all top three are in NY. That plays a huge factor, especially for fellow players, I think.

Someone like, say, Marcus Giles would be a God on NYY. He's barely recognized elsewhere. Meanwhile, Jeter's somehow the "best in baseball" at doing stuff like running bases, going back on popups, whatever.

Like anyone saying that watches anything BUT Yankee/ Met/ Red Sox games.

I've always thought that Jeter was overrated but not because he's not a good player. Fox Sports (and Tim McCarver) would have us believe that he the greatest player of his generation. He is a below average defender, despite the gold gloves, and a very good hitter. He is not Albert Pujols or Alex Rodriguez, however. He is always tagged a "winner" but has no hardware to show since he was named Captain. I'd take him on my team any day but there are several other players that I'd take before him.

I agree with you, but we must consider that we are speaking from a fan's, and not a player's, perspective.

I wonder where Manny Ramirez shows up on the complete list?

<ducks>

If it's on salary, yes, he's overpaid.

But overrated? This man has been one of the premier hitters in baseball for a long time, for good reason. Nobody is saying he's a great fielder (as people say with Jeter). He is lauded as a premier hitter, and despite early-season struggles the last two years - he is still one of the most feared hitters in baseball. So I'm not sure since he's still recognized as a great hitter and lives up to that hype, he's overrated.

Perhaps Helton would be a more fitting choice. He has good away numbers, but not nearly as good as his home numbers. the disparity suggests he looks like a MUCH better hitter than he is because of where he plays . . . not that that is breaking news or anything.

Two years ago, the correct answer would have been Barry Bonds, and the culprits of over-rating him would be the NL managers who inflated his numbers by refusing to pitch to him.

But of course the most overrated players play in New York. Generally speaking, that is probably true in all sports. You're in not only the media center of the world, but one which has an inflated sense of self-importance -- there's no way around New York players getting attention beyond that which they've earned. Even players on the miserable Jets get more attention than they should.

A year ago, Kris Benson would have been a good candidate for this list, and for no other reasons than that he pitched in New York and had a hot, loudmouth wife. Now, he's not overrated. Most people have forgotten he even exists.

I'm sure in A-Rod's case, the reputation he made for himself in Texas probably doesn't help. The fact that, according to the Jayson Stark school of economics, A-Rod makes more money that the GNP of Nigeria probably doesn't help. Plus the whole propensity to crumble under pressure, then point fingers, then whine about it doesn't help.

For Derek Jeter, it's impossible not to be overrated, simply because he is given such exalted status by so many. I have to give the man and/or his manager credit for one thing, though: Someone's doing something right if Jeter can get all the praise as THE guy with all the intangibles and yet his teammates don't all hate him. Because I'd venture to say that a good many other Yankees over the past decade have carried themselves like winners, have been smart players, and have contributed in ways that can't be measured. I have never heard about Bernie Williams's intangibles, though. So, I suspect that Jeter might be a more humble guy than we've ever given him credit for. That, or his teammates are a bunch of pansies for not kicking the crap out of him.

Biggest surprise on this list, to me: No backlash against players that "everyone" knows are/were on steroids. Maybe it's a year too late for that, since there's no Raffy or Sammy or Bret Boone, Sheffield and Giambi have that bizarre free pass working for them, and the sharks have already devoured Bonds.

Manny's a poor choice. His handling by the media is consistently peppered with chuckles about his defense, baserunning, etc. I'd say he's about where his value lays.

If we're looking Red Sox, look no further than OUR captain.

I agree if your going to talk about an overrated player on the Sox it would be Tek.

As for Jeter 9% of the vote is pretty high considering your asking for 1 player in all of baseball. The reason why I think he's overrated is that people act like he's infalable. Like the other night when Jeter was tagged out at 2nd and the ESPN announcer said "he must have been safe because Jeter doesn't argue unless he's right". Jeter complains about balls and strikes all the time while leaning over the plate. He's winning gold glove awards while being a below average fielder. Even if you don't take salary into account he's overrated by the NY and national media.

Because he is so widely considered to be overrated, Jeter is in fact underrated.

Overpaid? Yes. Overrated? No.

He's overrated by the media and fans, its the people that looks at defensive stats that show hes not good on D. Since he's won back to back gold gloves while being below average how is he underrated?

Does any of this surprise people really? Jeter's consistantly been one of the most hyped players outy there and he's been pretty consistant. He's made the playoffs every year since he started, is captain of the Yanks, has 4 rings and two pennants, a WS and AS MVP, has a large salary, and puts up a few highlight plays and key hits every year. Add in how much exposure and downright reverance he gets from ESPN and FOX and it's a no brainer. How in the hell does ANYONE live up to that? He'd have to hit .400 with 75 HR's, and 189 RBI's, and go a whole season with a 1.000 fielding percentage and a high RF.

A-Rod, look at his numbers and salary. I think a bit of envy and resent went into those votes as well. It's tough to live up to his own standards, let alone his track record and salary. Of course he's viewed as overrated.

Both of these guys I would have bet money would be top five in a poll like this. This is about as shocking as finding out that Cindi Sheehan didn't vote for Bush, but slightly more newsworthy and interesting to talk about!

Clearly, you people don't understand how intangibles work.

On a separate note, I'll throw this one out there:

Ichiro.

I go back and forth on him, maybe in part because he gets under my skin. But a few thoughts on him:

Ichiro's best two seasons batting - .372, .350
Nomar's best two seasons batting - .372, .357

Ichiro's best OBP season - .414
Wade Boggs' career OBP - .415

Ichiro's career best SLG - .457
Nomar's career worst SLG - .452

To say that Ichiro does not work walks is an understatement: For his career (through '05), 37% of his walks are IBB. Take those away, you have a guy who walks fewer than 30 times a year. By comparison, in seasons in which he played more than 100 games, Pokey Reese has a career low of 31 walks. Six AL players already have 20 or more walks this season.

I don't know. Ichiro's pretty good. And he's exciting. He's fun to watch, even if he does get on my nerves for whatever reason (I think it's the sunglasses and turtleneck, honestly). But he seems like a pretty classic example of overrated. Nomar, at his peak, was FAR better than Ichiro (offensively, at least) - but never got attention beyond that of third banana in the Big Three shortstops.

Ichiro belongs near the top of the list, good call rominer. I'd also put Jeter, Tek, Beltran, David Eckstein, Paul Lo Duca, Alfonso Soriano, Johnny Damon, Scott Podsednik and Hank Blalock as my top ten position players (in no particular order).

Vizquel might have taken this if he didn't retire. It used to drive me nuts when I'd hear him mentioned alongside Jeter, Nomar, and A-Rod.

Omar Vizquel? You mean the Omar Vizquel who has the 5th best average in the NL?

Yep, that's the guy I meant. Not sure why I thought he retired. I forgot baseball-reference doesn't update until a season is done so I never bothered verifying my statement and the stats ended after 2005! I really thought he was retired for some reason, confusing him with someone....

I think you're confusing "retired" with "retarded." Omar Vizquel has certainly acted retarded over the course of his career.

When there are a thousand potential vote-receivers, and one of them gets 9% of the vote, that's significant. Hell, with Presidential elections, the third party candidate is lucky to get 5%, and that's amongst three choices.

9% is quite significant in the context of so numerous a pool of potential choices. A-Rod is on there because there are ~400 guys who voted in this poll, each of which has a job description (MLB baseball player) similar to his, and each of whom gets paid a fraction of his money to do it. They were sitting home watching the playoffs last year when he hit into essentially a season-ending double play and said "Hell, I coulda done better than that."

On top of that, another poll listed him (the GQ "most hated" poll) as the 14th most-hated professional athlete, also as voted by peers.

He's not well liked by other players, he makes more money than all of them, and he has a tendency to flail in the clutch.

In that sense, "over-rated" really means "overpaid", I believe.

Jeter, to the same degree, as he is paid nearly as much as A-Fraud, and is certainly nowhere near A-Rod in ability.

I actually think Jeter might just be the most over-rated player in professional sports; he is certainly the most over-paid.

When I talk baseball with RS fans and Jeter comes up the word that invariable comes out their mouth is - overrated and it seems that the baseball intelligentsia are always talking up his shortcomings. That's why I say at this point the general attitude toward Jeter is to believe he is overrated.


Part of this debate would be how much emphasis you want to place on the defensive metrics. I don’t discount them nor do I think they are the last word. After all Mike Lowell won a GG last season and isn’t exactly a superhero when it comes to the new defensive measurements, but he’s looked fine to me thus far. If it’s your opinion that Jeter is the worst defensive SS in baseball because every spring BP proclaims him to be (an example of how his game is often denigrated by those “in the know’), then we just have to agree to disagree. The knock on Jeter's defense is that his range (particularly up the middle) is below average which IMO is the hardest thing in baseball to definitively measure. How can we tell for sure that Jack Wilson would have had some ball that just splipped thru the Yankee infield? Who knows - but at this point when talk of Jeter's defense comes up you'd think the guy could barely field a ground ball. Again, he's so widely considered by baseball-heads like us to be this incredibly bad defender - but he isn't. That's why I say he isunderrated.


A lot of SSs who were considered better than Jeter have come and gone (and some are now playing 3B) but right now he's playing as well as he ever has. He's gotten off to the best start that I've seen from him and is hitting the ball to all fields. At some point later this month (barring injury) he should collect his 2000th hit and score his 1200th run. Is it a stretch to say that in his 11th season in the big leagues, Jeter is the best SS in baseball?

Good point JtB. Jeter is a great player but I can see how he could be considered overrated which any star player who happens to play in NY will be.

Which brings me to a slightly off track question. Who among the following Boston (or ex Boston) athletes would you consider to be overrated?

Adam Vinatieri
Manny Ramirez
David Ortiz
Tom Brady
Richard Seymour
Bronson Arroyo
Joe Thornton
Paul Pierce

Somewhere, someone is informing Miguel Tejada that there is an idiot with this opinion and he is laughing his ass off.

One of these things is not like the other... One of these things just doesn't belong...

Tom Brady.

I think Brady's a GOD, and may go down in history as a Top 5 QB, but given that at this point some people, and some experts, are already talking like he is a Top 5 QB, that to me smells of being overrated.

Back to the topic at hand. I'm sure most of the players who named Jeter as "overrated" would take him as their SS any day of the week.

Ahem.

But he has zero rings since being named Captain of the Yanks. Just felt obliged to mention that.

Heh heh heh.

*runs*

I agree. I have a ton of respect for Jeter. He is one of those players who seems to elevate his game in the most pressurized situations. I admit that during Sox/Yankee games I often feel the need to pump my fist into his face, but otherwise, I enjoy watching him play. He has always seemed to be a class act.

I'd said it in my first post and I'll say it again. The opinion that Jeter is overrated, and he is overrated, does not mean that he is not a good player. It means that he gets too much credit for what he actually does. Is he a good hitter? Yes. Is he a below average defender? Yes. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. I can't think of anyone that wouldn't want him on their team, however.

That's okay... I made a fool out of myself recently referring to Marquis Grissom as "retired." The guy I was talking to said, "Yeah, he retired to knocking balls off walls all over the National League."




I think his class is over-rated as well... as are his leadership skills. To me, he has sort of a cock-sure, punk-ass expression on his face that I'd like to challenge to a fight after too many beers in a bad bar. In my youth. Of course.

But I'm also utterly blinded by hatred for pinstripes, so who knows.

I remember the stories about refusing to shake Huckaby's hand after the collision, and he doesn't seem to be a rally-the-troops kind of guy. He actually looks from the outside to be kind of a "strong, silent" type, not an emotionally uplifting kind of guy.


Brady is 10-1 in the post-season. THAT is meeting up to your hype.

TEN and ONE.

MESA, Ariz. -- Veteran outfielder Marquis Grissom ended what he called a "fun ride" and retired from baseball Tuesday, ending his career after 17 seasons.
"When it's time, it's time," Grissom said. "I think this is the best thing for me, at this point, to officially hang the cleats up and go home and enjoy the second half of my life and do things I've always wanted to do."

Grissom, 38, was a non-roster invitee in the Chicago Cubs camp and his decision creates an opening for Angel Pagan to make the team as a backup outfielder.

Link

I know thats off topic but SSA was, in fact, correct.