thanman2
Apr 16 2008, 10:59 PM
As early as 2006 I was wondering when Timlin would hang 'em up. I know the guy is the ultimate gamer, but there comes a time in EVERY athlete's career when it's obvious that they can't compete at their former level. I thought that time was 2006...but then he goes and cowboys up for one last, completely unpredictably effective season in 2007 that culminates in a FOURTH World Series ring. If ever there was a time to go out "on top", that was it.
But no. He had to come back. Since 1980, there have been so few relief campaigns posted by players 42 years or older:
CODE
playerid yearid teamid lgid g innings WHIP ERA Age
Rick Honeycutt 1996 SLN NL 61 47.1 1.04 2.85 42
Dennis Eckersley 1997 SLN NL 57 53 1.08 4.08 42
Goose Gossage 1994 SEA AL 36 47.1 1.25 4.37 42
Doug Jones 1999 OAK AL 70 104 1.25 3.72 42
Woody Fryman 1982 MON NL 60 69.2 1.32 4.65 42
Terry Mulholland 2005 MIN AL 49 59 1.32 4.58 42
Jesse Orosco 2002 LAN NL 56 27 1.33 3.33 45
Dennis Eckersley 1998 BOS AL 50 39.2 1.36 4.76 43
John Franco 2003 NYN NL 38 34.1 1.40 2.88 42
Doug Jones 2000 OAK AL 54 73.1 1.42 4.17 43
Mike Morgan 2002 ARI NL 29 34 1.47 5.82 42
Jesse Orosco 1999 BAL AL 65 32 1.50 5.91 42
Jesse Orosco 2001 LAN NL 35 16 1.50 3.94 44
Kent Tekulve 1989 CIN NL 37 52 1.52 6.06 42
John Franco 2004 NYN NL 52 46 1.52 5.48 43
Jim Kaat 1983 SLN NL 24 34.2 1.67 4.93 44
Jesse Orosco 2003 SDN NL 42 25 1.72 7.92 46
Jesse Orosco 2003 MIN AL 8 4.1 2.08 6.23 46
John Franco 2005 HOU NL 31 15 2.13 7.80 44
Jesse Orosco 2003 NYA AL 15 4.1 2.31 12.46 46
Jesse Orosco 2000 SLN NL 6 2.1 2.57 11.57 43
Terry Mulholland 2006 ARI NL 5 3 2.67 9.00 43
Woody Fryman 1983 MON NL 6 3 3.00 21.00 43
Rick Honeycutt 1997 SLN NL 2 2 3.00 13.50 43
Not counting Jesse Orosco I see two great seasons, two good seasons, five mediocre seasons, five terrible seasons, and three stillbirths. That's a strong precedent against successful 42 year old relievers. I love what Timlin has done for the Sox, but he's better suited as a bullpen coach at this point.
Thoughts?
Sox Sweep Again
Apr 16 2008, 11:32 PM
QUOTE(thanman2 @ Apr 16 2008, 09:56 PM)
As early as 2006 I was wondering when Timlin would hang 'em up. I know the guy is the ultimate gamer, but there comes a time in EVERY athlete's career when it's obvious that they can't compete at their former level. I thought that time was 2006...but then he goes and cowboys up for one last, completely unpredictably effective season in 2007 that culminates in a FOURTH World Series ring. If ever there was a time to go out "on top", that was it.
But no. He had to come back. Since 1980, there have been so few relief campaigns posted by players 42 years or older:
-snip-
Not counting Jesse Orosco I see two great seasons, two good seasons, five mediocre seasons, five terrible seasons, and three stillbirths. That's a strong precedent against successful 42 year old relievers. I love what Timlin has done for the Sox, but he's better suited as a bullpen coach at this point.
Thoughts?
Um, nah. After 2007 I think he has a marginal chance to have one last season of effectiveness.
If it doesn't happen, his season joins your "stillbirth" category, which I think is the actual debate here.
alskor
Apr 16 2008, 11:44 PM
Hang em up Mike. Its going to get embarassing at some point. I love the guy, but he's been toast for years.... years. I have no idea how he managed to look decent last year, but he needs to stop, or at least never be allowed in a game with the lead. I dont mean the embarassing thing as a knock... I mean, in all seriousness, quit now while people remember you as a semi-effective reliever. There is very, very little reason to believe he will turn this around. I say minimum we should do is DL the guy with a made up strain and see if a stint in Pawtucket can straighten him out a little bit(though i doubt it).
Well, looks like the perennial search for bullpen help is almost upon us...
SFFM38
Apr 17 2008, 04:46 AM
I think it would be hard to DFA Timlin and have some team to pick up his contract. I think its either 3.85M or 4M but not 100% sure on it.. I may have those #'s mixed up with Julian Tavarez Contract #'s
The Love Below
Apr 17 2008, 08:31 AM
I thought he retired two years ago...and no one told him.
Seriously, I've been advocating the Sox parting ways with him for a while now and investing that money elsewhere (or developing something from within). With MDC and Okajima taking care of the late innings the role of Timlin is kind of marginalized now. He sucks the bone with runners on and has for a few years now, but his seemingly low ERAs masked his ineffectiveness with inherited runners. Would Snyder have been as bad as Timlin? If only the Sox had a player in their farm system that looked like he could step in and make a difference. I assume that the Sox will definitely be in the market for a couple bullpen arms as the season goes on. Maybe Timlin could get some sort of phantom injury that keeps him on the sidelines or something...
JMDurron
Apr 17 2008, 08:51 AM
I think that we may wind up with Timlin holding the line until the FO is reasonably convinced that Hansen is ready to come back to the MLB level, AND Aardsma can keep up his level of performance. That way, Aardsma takes Timlin's innings, and Hansen is replacing Aardsma's previous slot instead of taking up Timlin's innings.
SoxFan24
Apr 17 2008, 09:25 AM
I've been holding my breath whenever Timlin has come in for the past 2-3 years. I just haven't had any faith in the guy. This year he's really struggling, and if the Red Sox think someone from the minors is ready, they should definitely give him a shot.
Hansen is the most obvious, but considering most people think he'll end up a reliever, Masterson may not be a bad option either.
Manny's ps2
Apr 17 2008, 09:46 AM
Methinks the Craig Hansen era needs to restart.
He's up to 9.1 innings pitched with 2 hits, no runs, 3 walks and 10k's.
Why lug Tavarez and Timlin around when they have become so ineffective?
Does anyone doubt this team would be better off with Hansen and Masterson taking over for those two? Masterson is probably a year away, but Hansen seems to be regaining form (at least at the stat level). I just can't see Tavarez and timlin on staff much longer. Maybe 1, but not both. I kept thinking I'd have much rather seen Snyder than Tavarez in that situation last night.
Kylyk
Apr 17 2008, 09:59 AM
I really would not be surprised if they give him until May or so to try to figure it out then put him on the DL and he retires after that. I think it will come down to the Red Sox telling him either retire of were DFAing you. Also, it is absolutely apparent that it is time for Hansen to move in and take over this job.
Jermaine Van Buren Fan
Apr 17 2008, 10:46 AM
I absolutely hated re-signing him after 2006 since I thought that's when they actually would part ways with him, and I wasn't too happy about re-upping him after 2007, although that was inevitable. His half-season of productivity last year was completely unpredictable, and frankly lucky, as his K and GB rates kept pitfalling to the point of being well below-average. It's nearly impossible to succeed when you don't get either of those two, and I don't see him turning it around at 42.
Toast.
Youuuuk!
Apr 17 2008, 11:38 AM
I agree with what most people have said. I don't really understand why they bothered re-signing him this year, when he has been seriously shaky since 2006. We have people in the farm system that can in fact step up (Hansen definitely), and I really hope that if (when?) Timlin continues to struggle, that he gets called up and Timlin gets asked to retire.
millar goes yard
Apr 17 2008, 12:34 PM
Ugh..... I agree with the consensus around here. And I hate to violate the small sample size rule, but the Yankees teeing off on him to the tune of 8 for 9 is particularly nauseating. While I'm reluctant to throw him out, the body of evidence seems to be suggesting the Sox should do that. However, I think we all know that's not going to happen. Unless Theo forces Tito's hand. And I hope that happens, because as long as he's on the 25 man, Tito is going to use him in important innings. And let me be crystal clear that I am a big fan of Francona's, and think he's the perfect manager for this team (and even thought so before he got our boys 2 sets of rings), but the big problem with him is he is going to use "his guys", even if using them in certain situations doesn't make statistical sense (cough, cough... Lopez). Sometimes that's admirable, and sometimes it works.... but more often, it's just not smart baseball.
Realistically, I think the phantom DL stint for Timlin is a good idea, and since Hansen has started pretty well, I don't think it would hurt to kick the tires on him once again. Hopefully, he is recapturing that edge we saw right after he had left St. Johns, and hopefully, also, the sleep apnea surgery has paid dividends. 9 innings into it, it's looking good to me.
By all accounts, Timlin is a great guy.... he just has to know that he is hurting the team right now. It sucks to say that, because he's had a hell of a career as a reliever, and was a pretty effective fireman earlier in his Sox career, but something needs to be done. And a trip to the DL is probably the best way for all parties involved to take a good, long look and see if anything can be salvaged. And if baseball minds greater than ours still conclude that he has something left, I would suggest we use him in lower leverage innings and less often... the Kyle Snyder bullpen spot, if you will. But perhaps, that isn't realistic.
JMDurron
Apr 17 2008, 12:51 PM
For the record, regarding usage, Francona seems to only be using Timlin as the 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart lately (depending on where you think Aardsma is). Trailing by 2 in the 8th inning of a game where Tavarez and Aardsma are already gone, there are no off days until April 29, and Mariano Rivera awaits in the 9th seems like a low-leverage situation to me, not an example of Francona "going to his binky in a key spot." So far, Timlin has pitched when the team is trailing and/or when some combination of Delcarmen, Okajima, and Papelbon aren't available. The real problem is starters not getting to the 6th inning (nevermind through it), not how Francona is using Timlin right now. I think that people are still clinging to 2005/2006 examples of Francona using Timlin above all others, and not keeping in mind his actual usage patterns so far this season when the better alternatives on the depth chart have actually been available.
millar goes yard
Apr 17 2008, 03:13 PM
QUOTE(JMDurron @ Apr 17 2008, 01:48 PM)
For the record, regarding usage, Francona seems to only be using Timlin as the 4th or 5th guy on the depth chart lately (depending on where you think Aardsma is). Trailing by 2 in the 8th inning of a game where Tavarez and Aardsma are already gone, there are no off days until April 29, and Mariano Rivera awaits in the 9th seems like a low-leverage situation to me, not an example of Francona "going to his binky in a key spot." So far, Timlin has pitched when the team is trailing and/or when some combination of Delcarmen, Okajima, and Papelbon aren't available. The real problem is starters not getting to the 6th inning (nevermind through it), not how Francona is using Timlin right now. I think that people are still clinging to 2005/2006 examples of Francona using Timlin above all others, and not keeping in mind his actual usage patterns so far this season when the better alternatives on the depth chart have actually been available.
Fair enough.... Perhaps it felt more high leverage to me as we had clawed back from Yankee leads several times already, and things were certainly within our reach. And you are right that Aardsma and Tavarez had been used. But I'd still rather not see Timlin in the 8th inning unless the game is out of reach. I think any alternative on the depth chart is superior to him at this point. And in that spot, I would have been more comfortable seeing Delcarmen (even though he had appeared in the previous game) or Lopez over him, at this point. But you're right.... the starting pitching with a few exceptions has been pretty awful, and that puts Tito in a huge bind with a taxed bullpen.
Besides Timlin sucking, the fact that the bullpen is so exhausted is another good reason in my view to get creative with the disabled list and call up Hansen.
Manny's ps2
Apr 17 2008, 03:58 PM
If I was Theo
Trade/DFA/shoot - Tavarez AND Timlin
Bring up Snyder or Chris Smith for JT and Hansen to replace Timlin.
But Tito likes his vets and I wonder if Timlin will adjust and get a little better as the season progresses. If Timlin gets 1 save opportunity this year that doesn't come in the 48th inning of a game I will shoot my tv.
The Love Below
Apr 17 2008, 09:39 PM
Take it FWIW, but Gammons and Ravech were discussing Hansen rumored to be called up soon on BBTN about two mins ago.
bosockboy
Apr 17 2008, 10:27 PM
QUOTE(The Love Below @ Apr 17 2008, 10:36 PM)
Take it FWIW, but Gammons and Ravech were discussing Hansen rumored to be called up soon on BBTN about two mins ago.
Beat me again, TLB. You wonder if its just a DL stint for Timlin or if this is finally it and the DFA is coming. No way its Aardsma. I was maybe the biggest defender of Timlin in 2007 when he was getting whacked around in June, and although his periphs were iffy, I think the Sox did the right thing keeping him and they were rewarded with a 1.05 whip. His biggest value is of course not walking anybody and the ability to induce groundballs, and those seem to finally be fading a bit as well.
My biggest red flag, in limited sample size of course, is the fact that Giambi, who has been career-owned by Timlin and is hitting like .040 against the rest of the AL, has just been tattooing the ball off him. Even the loud foul ball last night that was inches from another dinger.
Anxious to see Hansen up regardless; MDC, Hansen and Aardsma makes a nice threesome behind Oki and Paps.
SoxAroundTheWorld
Apr 18 2008, 03:49 AM
I've long been a Mike Timlin fan, but the big guy needs to know that it is time to hang 'em up. He just can't do it anymore, despite a flukish performance at the end of last year. Thanks for the memories, Mike.
Bring on Hansen!
P.S. Rereading that first paragraph, the exact same thing can be said about #38. Just sayin'...
JMDurron
Apr 18 2008, 07:59 AM
Unless there is a DL stint in the works, I doubt Hansen's callup will be too soon. We know how hesitant the Red Sox are to lose control of any pitching resources, so nobody will be DFAed if it can be prevented, at least not this early in the season. I suspect the team is going to play it conservatively with making sure that Hansen can really stick once he comes up, because it would suck to lose any relief pitcher to another team in order to make room for Hansen, only to have to send him back down to AAA again later to fix some flaws that pop up at the MLB level.
Manny's ps2
Apr 18 2008, 08:31 AM
QUOTE(JMDurron @ Apr 18 2008, 07:56 AM)
Unless there is a DL stint in the works, I doubt Hansen's callup will be too soon. We know how hesitant the Red Sox are to lose control of any pitching resources, so nobody will be DFAed if it can be prevented, at least not this early in the season. I suspect the team is going to play it conservatively with making sure that Hansen can really stick once he comes up, because it would suck to lose any relief pitcher to another team in order to make room for Hansen, only to have to send him back down to AAA again later to fix some flaws that pop up at the MLB level.
Holy careful batman!
If Hansen doesn't stick, there's other options at aaa and aa. He's pitching well, and would give the team a better chance to win than trotting out the should-be-retired Timlin and Tavarez. I get the complications and just dumping pitching that may come in handy, but Timlin is bloody awful at this point and Jules isn't looking much better, with his 82 mph heat. I know Tito loves Timlin and Timlin is certainly an important character in the BP dynamic, but he appears to be suited to have a second career as a BP pitcher which he is kicking off too early.
RicoPetro
Apr 20 2008, 09:06 PM
QUOTE(Manny's ps2 @ Apr 17 2008, 04:55 PM)
Trade/DFA/shoot - Tavarez AND Timlin
Bring up Snyder or Chris Smith for JT and Hansen to replace Timlin.
Good idea. I'd take Daniel Bard over T&T right now even though he's only in A ball.
Youuuuk!
Apr 22 2008, 10:10 AM
I honestly don't think Tavarez has been THAT bad. He has had a few bad outings, but he has had some decent ones too.
acr
Apr 22 2008, 11:37 AM
I really don't think the people in the bullpen are the problem. It's the fact that our starters aren't going deep enough into games this early in the season that is exposing those Aardsma types. No team in baseball has 5 total sutdown guys in the bullpen, and the best you can expect from the depth guys is to get you out of innings without major damage. Beckett missing a week was difficult, since he's the horse of the staff. Daisuke had some tough games early where he didn't make it past the 5th. He'll get better IMO, and you know what you're getting with Wake. My concern is if Lester and Buchholz can build it up...I think Clay showed yesterday that he's up to the task, but Jon has a habit of throwing a lot of pitches and leaving early. He is averaging about 5 2/3 this season, so hopefully he can give us some long appearances to not expose the pen.
That said, Timlin is cooked and should probably be put down.
alskor
Apr 22 2008, 11:43 AM
Id like to soften my stance on Timlin... he's really not any worse than he's been, which is far from good... but who cares. As was correctly pointed out he's just a scrub/backend of the pen guy who pitches when were behind or far ahead. The chances of him making a difference in that role are slim. Meanwhile he's a vet with a great work ethic and a good tutor. Id probably still cut him if I were in charge, but its hardly a pressing problem. How much better can we do there? Somebody who will give up like what? five less runs over the course of the season, and those runs not being crucial ones, coming in garbage time? In retrospect, I think I overreacted before b/c I just dont like Timlin.
thanman2
Apr 25 2008, 10:38 PM
Mike Timlin sucks donkey balls. That is all.
john dopson
Apr 26 2008, 12:52 AM
he's been pretty good for years but I'd never trust him in anything close to a big spot now.
he's a mopup man, nothing more.
GreenBud
Apr 26 2008, 01:00 AM
I would be more than happy to donate to a plane ticket to get him out of town. He has served his purpose well. It's over.
Of course, I probably said the same thing one year ago....
Jermaine Van Buren Fan
Apr 26 2008, 09:25 AM
I'm sure I'll say it many more times, but he has nothing. There should only be room for one mop-up man, and that's Tavarez, because he can actually eat innings, however shitty they may be. Timlin should go now for Gronkiewicz, Corey for Hansen when his 10 days are up, and if Tito really needs a LOOGY, Switzer can actually get them out. The bottom half of the pen needs an almost-complete overhaul, or else we're going to continue to have frustrating losses like last night, assuming Tito isn't going to bring Papelbon into tie games on the road.
EDIT: We're carrying 13 pitchers now, so one of them should go when Lowell returns.
redsoxfanlou
Apr 26 2008, 10:09 AM
I've been weary of him since the gs to vlad in '04. Just one of those things where it surprises me if he gets guys out. He's a contact pitcher that tends to leave the ball up and he's old...scary.
rpry17a
Apr 26 2008, 10:43 AM
This is never a good sign:
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playe...0&type=fullI think you give him until the middle of May, and if significant progress hasn't been made you have to get him out of there. He will always be a hero in Boston, but this isn't the time to carry a guy on the roster because of what he did in 2004.
alskor
Apr 26 2008, 11:56 AM
We should have Tavarez teach Timlin how to doctor a ball with vaseline, vagisil, whatever Julian uses...
retire25
Apr 26 2008, 12:19 PM
QUOTE(alskor @ Apr 22 2008, 12:40 PM)
Id like to soften my stance on Timlin... he's really not any worse than he's been, which is far from good... but who cares. As was correctly pointed out he's just a scrub/backend of the pen guy who pitches when were behind or far ahead. The chances of him making a difference in that role are slim.
That's what I would have thought, too, but Tito seems to have more faith in him than the rest of us. He'll bring him into big spots, last night being the perfect example. I kept hoping he'd use Papelbon (Yeah, I know it was a tie game on the road but he was rested) or even Oki for an inning (Pitched the day before at Fenway but had a fairly long layoff due to the stiff neck and certainly hasn't been overworked).
I recall Timlin coming into the first game of the Pigs series at Fenway a couple of Friday nights ago with the score tied (the Wang game) and saying to my wife "It'll be tough for this guy to keep this game tied against this lineup." Juicin' Jason took him deep almost before I finished the sentence. I think that was Timlin's first appearance of the season - which only added to my puzzlement as to why Tito brought him in.
Timlin at this point is the worst kind of relief pitcher. He's ineffective, can't give you multiple innings in a blowout, mop-up type of situation like Tavarez can, isn't a LOOGY, and the manager likes him.
thanman2
Apr 26 2008, 12:23 PM
On the other hand, Mike has cut his ERA in half since this thread was started. If he does that two more times he'll be a respectable reliever again...
alskor
Apr 26 2008, 01:05 PM
QUOTE(retire25 @ Apr 26 2008, 01:16 PM)
That's what I would have thought, too, but Tito seems to have more faith in him than the rest of us. He'll bring him into big spots, last night being the perfect example. I kept hoping he'd use Papelbon (Yeah, I know it was a tie game on the road but he was rested) or even Oki for an inning (Pitched the day before at Fenway but had a fairly long layoff due to the stiff neck and certainly hasn't been overworked).
I recall Timlin coming into the first game of the Pigs series at Fenway a couple of Friday nights ago with the score tied (the Wang game) and saying to my wife "It'll be tough for this guy to keep this game tied against this lineup." Juicin' Jason took him deep almost before I finished the sentence. I think that was Timlin's first appearance of the season - which only added to my puzzlement as to why Tito brought him in.
Timlin at this point is the worst kind of relief pitcher. He's ineffective, can't give you multiple innings in a blowout, mop-up type of situation like Tavarez can, isn't a LOOGY, and the manager likes him.
Yeah, Ive flip flopped again and would like him gone. That quote was from a little while back...
Im not sure how much you can blame Tito for bringing him in, though. With MDC recovering from the flu(and sucking) and the heavy bullpen usage of the last week or so you could really end up burning out the pen. I probably would have gone to Papelbon in the 9th, actually, but once he was out I would have had the same problem.
The entire bullpen has kind of sucked this week.
john dopson
Apr 26 2008, 01:36 PM
QUOTE(thanman2 @ Apr 26 2008, 11:20 AM)
On the other hand, Mike has cut his ERA in half since this thread was started. If he does that two more times he'll be a respectable reliever again...
I think you're joking but just in case... ERA's not a great way to measure relievers, IMO.
you can come in with 3 guys on, let all 3 score and your ERA is 0.
acr
Apr 27 2008, 11:22 AM
I'll never understand managers who don't use their best relievers when they could lose on a walkoff on any pitch just because it isn't a save situation. There's no way that Mike Timlin should be in a game with the opportunity to lose before Papelbon, especially when Pap hadn't pitched the day before(and as it goes, wouldn't have had to pitch last night either).
MFLetou
Apr 28 2008, 11:43 AM
Its hard for me to believe that Danny Kolb wasn't a better option than Timlin at this point.
thanman2
Apr 28 2008, 12:14 PM
Kolb is an option down the road only if the Sox fall on REALLY hard times. He may or may not be as good as Timlin right now, but Timlin is around because of reputation, not merit, and Kolb has no cache to bump him ahead of guys who can actually pitch in the majors successfully.
Hmmm, that made sense when I thought it but not when I typed it. Oh well.
24Red Sox
Apr 28 2008, 07:44 PM
QUOTE(thanman2 @ Apr 28 2008, 12:11 PM)
Kolb is an option down the road only if the Sox fall on REALLY hard times. He may or may not be as good as Timlin right now, but Timlin is around because of reputation, not merit, and Kolb has no cache to bump him ahead of guys who can actually pitch in the majors successfully.
Hmmm, that made sense when I thought it but not when I typed it. Oh well.
Kolb is not an option since he was released from his contract today or yesterday.
MFLetou
Apr 28 2008, 10:32 PM
QUOTE(thanman2 @ Apr 28 2008, 01:11 PM)
Kolb is an option down the road only if the Sox fall on REALLY hard times. He may or may not be as good as Timlin right now, but Timlin is around because of reputation, not merit, and Kolb has no cache to bump him ahead of guys who can actually pitch in the majors successfully.
Hmmm, that made sense when I thought it but not when I typed it. Oh well.
Well, what I'm saying is that I would not have released Kolb given the state of the bullpen and Timlin right now. If I absolutely had to make a roster move that involved releasing a pitcher, it would have been Timlin, not Kolb who was pitching quite well in Pawtucket.
I also think the Sox overrate Hansick.
(Edit...yes I know its Hansack, but I like calling him Hansick. So there).
Lesbian BoyFriend
May 11 2008, 09:38 PM
Man, this guy SUCKS. He was cooked a year ago and the only thing that's left is a smoldering pile of crap.
Malzone64
May 11 2008, 10:48 PM
QUOTE(Lesbian BoyFriend @ May 11 2008, 07:35 PM)
Man, this guy SUCKS. He was cooked a year ago and the only thing that's left is a smoldering pile of crap.
Last year he was pretty damn good in the second half of the season, and in the post-season, after being not so hot in the first half. I think the powers that be are still looking for that. How long will they give him to come around? I think quite a while because they really like Timlin.
bosockboy
May 11 2008, 11:13 PM
Tonight's situation is the toughest there is for a manager. Do you roll the dice and expend your valuable bullpen guys while trailing by two runs in the hopes that the offense comes back....no one usually does. If Wake pitches a decent game tonight (like 6IP, 4ER), we win. Tonight's not on Timlin.
MFLetou
May 12 2008, 08:48 AM
No, its not, but frankly the guy isn't showing much improvement. I love him, but I fear that at this point, the Red Sox should probably try to DL him, and if he doesn't want to go, release him.
I actually thought last year people were WAY too tough on him, but this year...I mean, at a certain point, you just have to get people out, and he can't do it.
Jermaine Van Buren Fan
May 12 2008, 08:52 AM
QUOTE(bosockboy @ May 12 2008, 12:10 AM)
Tonight's situation is the toughest there is for a manager. Do you roll the dice and expend your valuable bullpen guys while trailing by two runs in the hopes that the offense comes back....no one usually does. If Wake pitches a decent game tonight (like 6IP, 4ER), we win. Tonight's not on Timlin.
Wakefield definitely deserves more blame than Timlin, but let's not absolve Mike of any blame.
I can't wait until Hansen goes down again today while this man keeps his job. His renaissance last season consisted of getting extremely lucky on balls in play and fly balls not leaving the yard. He can't strike anyone out, and he can't keep it on the ground. I'm generally a supporter of Theo's, but his continued sentimentality towards Timlin despite his expiration date being sometime in 2005 is really hurting this team.
DFA/Force him to retire and bring up Gronkiewicz when he's healthy.
acr
May 12 2008, 01:04 PM
So far, we've had reliable enough starting pitching that Timlin hasn't had to come in more than once a week. He's not dragging the team down by any means, even if we could have a better option there. As long as the rotation stays healthy and can give us 5 to 6 every night, and the rest of the pen is being halfway decent with their innings, Timlin's presence isn't going to hurt us too much. That said, he better not be anywhere near the postseason roster.
Jermaine Van Buren Fan
May 12 2008, 01:28 PM
QUOTE(acr @ May 12 2008, 02:01 PM)
So far, we've had reliable enough starting pitching that Timlin hasn't had to come in more than once a week. He's not dragging the team down by any means, even if we could have a better option there. As long as the rotation stays healthy and can give us 5 to 6 every night, and the rest of the pen is being halfway decent with their innings, Timlin's presence isn't going to hurt us too much. That said, he better not be anywhere near the postseason roster.
He gave up what turned out to be the winning run last night - just because he comes in when they're trailing doesn't mean he cant hurt them. He effectively comes before Papelbon in tie games on the road, since Tito most likely won't use Papelbon until the Sox get the lead. Mike Timlin has been, is, and will continue to be a great detriment to this team's chances of winning baseball games. He provides no tangible value, and him being a great mentor to the younger pitchers (if he actually is) is not a valid reason for keeping him on the roster.
Also, if he shouldn't be anywhere near the postseason roster, why the hell should he be on the regular season roster? To take up space? See what Gronkiewicz can do - at worst, he's a cheaper Timlin, and if his peripherals translate, he's an option for the third man on the depth chart. Either way, we know that Mike Timlin is worthless, so there's no reason to continue any further.
24Red Sox
May 12 2008, 05:35 PM
If Timlin continues to pitch the way he has been pitching for the next few weeks, does anybody think he could be the one to go when Colon comes up to the majors?
retire25
May 12 2008, 09:48 PM
QUOTE(24Red Sox @ May 12 2008, 06:32 PM)
If Timlin continues to pitch the way he has been pitching for the next few weeks, does anybody think he could be the one to go when Colon comes up to the majors?
No, I think CB goes back to the bushes to limit his innings and gain some consistency - something that tonight's performance shows he badly needs.
dtkendrick
May 12 2008, 09:54 PM
I have been one of the biggest Timlin fans. I have tried to defend him to everyone who continues to say DFA him. However, when the wife throws up her hands and exclaims "How many more f-ing runs is he going to give up?" as she storms off to bed, I have to believe it may be time to thank him for his role in the two titles, shake his hand, and ease him into the retirement home. It sucks seeing people not realize that they are just too old and not capable of running with the kids of today.