Schilling says yes.

Of course Farnsworth was throwing at Manny, but I tend to believe that it was far more in response to A-Rod getting plunked the night before than it was for Manny hitting his two dingers earlier in the game.

Shouldn't we be more up in arms about Mussina trying to hurt our young star center fielder - twice??? (Given that Mike has no idea any more where his pitches are going, probably not...)

Agree w/ SATW, not to many people were questioning intent but rather, when & who from the Sox would retaliate.

The Sox don't play NY again now until early July. However, during the game's broadcast Remy sounded pretty convinced that the Sox wouldn't let this go even if it meant having to wait several months to respond.

FWIW: If Pedro were pitching the 8th last night in place of Beckett the retaliatory pitch would already be done & over with.

Manny seems to think it was intentional, but also doesn't seem too concerned.

Link

I think Ellsbury getting hit twice was enough, but apparently not. Throwing up behind Manny's head was not the way to do things. The guys on BBTN were up in arms, saying that it should have resulted in an ejection and suspenson. I think that at the very least he should have been given the heave ho from the game.

And what's up with Mussina? Can't do the dirty work himself? I would fully expect one of the Yankees to get drilled later this season. If I were Jeter or ARod I'd be back on my heels a little bit when I step in.

If it was a response to the A-Rod beaning, it was an overreaction. If Manny backed up (which is totally understandable) he could have been seriously injured. It was Bush league.

The other facet of the story is thank god Manny didn't rush Farnsworth, he is one bad mofo when it comes to brawls. I remember him absolutely crushing someone who charged the mound when he was a Cubbie. It was gruesome.

Yet the catcher (Barrett?) is on his knees impersenating a begging puppy.


I posted this in another thread last week, the pitch to Manny's head may just be the way Girardi conducts business.


From spring training 08':

'Make no mistake - Pettitte’s pitch yesterday (brushing Ortiz off the plate on March 17th) was intentional. And Girardi had a lot to do with it. Last May, Girardi was on the Michael Kay Show talking about The Rivalry. I wrote about their conversation in a Squawkers’ entry back then:

Girardi criticized how Yankee pitchers let other pitchers, especially the Red Sox, get too comfortable at the plate. He said that the Sox pitchers make the Yankees “move their feet”, but that the Yankee batters don’t do the same. He stressed that the Yankees have to make a change on this.'

Source


There's also this take from today's NY Post:

'Farnsworth tried to take care of the Yankees' Manny Problem last night by buzzing a first-pitch fastball behind the head of the Yankee Killer in the top of the seventh.

You may not like the method, but this is one message that had to be sent. This was old-school baseball in a new-school world.

Noted Joe Girardi, "He just tried to throw 100 miles per hour. He overthrew it and it got away, that's what I saw."

Link

There's also this from the Daily News:

'The Yankees didn't play this type of hardball when Joe Torre was managing, and it infuriated fans and annoyed some players. They thought the Red Sox pitchers got in too many free shots on Yankee hitters without retaliation. They couldn't understand why David Ortiz was never dusted.

It's hard to believe Joe Girardi ordered Farnsworth to send Ramirez a message, but it's clear the new manager wants his team to play with an edge. Maybe Farnsworth was just more comfortable delivering the message on Girardi's watch.'

Source

Maybe because Mussina can't throw hard enough to hurt a Little Leaguer? Well, that's not true, but Farnsworth's FB is 10 - 15 mph faster than Moose's. The ump Vanover ought to be fined for not throwing Farnsworth out of the game. He could have killed Manny.

I kind of went googly trying to find soem Farnsworth fight links...I found one fight with the Royals from 05 where he came out of the bullpen - the fight was clearly over - he ran around a pile of players and decked Jeremy Affeldt. He is such a punk, but, a bad ass to boot. i really wanted him on the Sox, despite his suckitude as a straightballer, just because he can kick ass. The only good foil we used to have was Seanez, who was equally if not more sucky, but he was also a badass MMA fighter.

Agreed. I thought the incident was similar to Jaba throwing at Youks head last season. Everyone accepts that getting thrown at & subsequantly getting hit is part of the game but it's the throwing at heads that brings the incident to another level.






Come on, you've gotta give props to Loco Tavarez:

I was absolutely shocked that Beckett didn't do something when he came back out. I thought his night was winding down, and he was coming out for the sole purpose of retaliation.

Then I was doubly shocked when he came out the NEXT inning and didn't do anything.

But then rational thought crept in and I said to myself...'Hey, Beckett just threw 8 strong against the Yanks...and he WON'T be suspended for doing something silly'

I thought Remy made a good point during Manny's 3rd AB and then after the behind-the-head pitch that in the back of his mind during the 3rd AB, he knew it was coming. Just didn't come when he expected it.

it's still a horrible rule that team A throws at a guy, the umps warn both benches and team B is now hamstrung to do anything in return.

I really think that a fastball at someone's head should be an automatic 6 (for RP) 15 (for SP) game suspension. Figure that takes away 3 starts/relief apps. A ball that could reasonable hit someone directly in the head is simply atrocious.

I don't think that's actually a rule, it's just how some umpires choose to handle it. Sometimes it's probably appropriate, but you're right, sometimes it clearly is not, depending on the teams' history and the pitchers.

Least we forget the time Trot Nixon was in the batter's box, swung & lost the grip on his bat sending it in the direction of a Tampa Bay pitcher standing on the mound.

ha, sure it was intentional...I think there were 2 dudes smokin a spliff down in jamacahhh mon that didn't see it coming....

but alas,,,, my boy manny da badman went back to the bench and had a good chuckle about it...
(word is reading the secret has greatly helped him really focus at the plate)

no sweat about the spankme's bro's and sistahs!!! what comes around goes around...manny won't forget....

bring on texas and go Dice K!

Hammer
who still sez whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooouh!!!!

As satisfying as it would've been to get them back last night, I prefer the waiting approach. Not only do no Sox get suspended, but now Jeter and Rodriguez will have it hanging over their heads until it happens.

I don't know where this conundrum comes from, but it's apropos right now: would you rather get punched 3 times now, or punched once at a time and place of the puncher's choosing, with no warning?

I don't even remember A-Rod getting hit in the first game. That's how notable that was.

But let's just say that Aardsma hit him intentionally.

Let's assume that the Yankees were within their unwritten rights to retaliate.

Let's assume that Jacoby Ellsbury being hit 4 pitches into the next game was not intentional, not retaliation, and not deserving of a warning. Let's assume that Ellsbury getting hit again his next time up was also not intentional. Fair enough – Mussina was ahead 1-2 both times. Let's assume that unintentional HBP - even repeated unintentional HBP – can't ever be a substitute for deliberate payback.

Let's assume that Kyle #$#$#$# throwing at Manny was, therefore, a foregone conclusion and in and of itself not outside the lines. That's fine. But it was still at his head. Not his back. Not his thigh. Not one of those warning shots that's a foot behind the batter. A fastball at his head.

Not only is that not the right way to retaliate, but it irrevocably raises the stakes. It's dangerous. And, frankly, in this day and age of baseball, it's cowardly – because you know the warning is coming to BOTH teams, so you know the opponent is limited in what it can do to return the favor.

I do not understand for a second how that pitch did not result in an immediate ejection. It will be very interesting to see what happens next time. If a Sox pitcher comes out and fires a fastball high and tight, will it only result in a warning? It will have to. The precedent has been set. And it's a bad precedent.

That's a big point.

Id wager many of Farnsworth's teammates wouldnt agree with the decision to throw it there. There is no justification for doing that... ever. You want to hit a guy on the ass? Fine. That hurts like hell, but it has an incredibly slim chance of ending your career. What Farnsworth did was stupid and too far. Yankee fans wont want to hear it, b/c we've been hitting their batters at a ratio of like 10-1 for the last decade... but this one went a little far. I dont think the retaliation will be that big a thing, as emotions fade over two months... and I think everyone on both sides knows what an idiot Farnsworth is, so its not like the Sox are going to blame the rest of the team or Girardi.

I have to say, I think this is being a little overplayed here, and a little underplayed in the media... and really, I find it hard to get worked up about it. He probably should have been thrown out, yes, and if he had hit him in the head Id be very upset. But as it stands... I dont know... not that big a deal, and nothing can be done about it anyway.

I do think he did it b/c of the two HRs... and I do think it can be legit to hit a guy for that reason. I wouldnt in the situation last night, but if youre down 15-2 or something, sure...



EDIT: Still, not at the head though...

Which got him suspended IIRC.

The big deal isn't so much what Buttersworth did, it's what the umpire didn't do.

As long as retaliation is part of the game, sure, every once in awhile a guy is going to cross the line. And the line between throwing at a guy's ass and his head is a huge one in terms of implications – but maybe not so big in terms of what happens when you just popped half a dozen pills in the bullpen before coming into the game, and your adrenaline is flowing, and you're doing something that draws on a different set of emotions and instincts than pitching to get a guy out. It's entirely possible that Farnsworth was throwing at Manny but didn't intend to throw at his head.

But umpires make me sick. They love to protect their own egos. Argue a call, and they don't think twice about getting in your face like a mall rent-a-cop or a bar bouncer, daring you to get yourself ejected. But protect the players? We get a weak "warning" to both benches. Come on. You do that to keep things from escalating – but it doesn't get any more escalated than 97 mph at someone's head.

I'm fine with umpires having some discretion in the matter. Far better than the NBA inventing rules that take away that discretion. But then, it only works if the umpires actually use that discretion instead of falling back to the safety (for them) of issuing a mere warning.

I'm a T-Rex RAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

Manny should have Izzy kicked Moeller in the chest and then charged Farnsworth. Who cares if Farnsworth has kicked butt in the past.

Now, the Yankee batters will have it in the back of their heads until retaliation happens. I suppose that's a bonus. Maybe DJ won't crowd the plate quite as much...

Looks like MLB thought it was intentional...

Yankees pitcher Farnsworth suspended, appeals 3-game penalty

BALTIMORE—New York Yankees reliever Kyle Farnsworth was suspended for three games and fined Saturday for throwing a fastball behind the neck of Boston slugger Manny Ramirez earlier in the week.

more stories like thisFarnsworth appealed the penalty, which was to start Saturday night against Baltimore. He will be eligible to pitch until a hearing is held.

I am glad to hear that he was suspended, even if he is going to try and appeal it, I am pretty sure he will end up serving the suspension some day.

I was in attendance on Thursday, and for some reason, I thought warnings were issued after Ellsbury was plunked the second time. When Vanover came out to call the Manny pitch, I thought he was giving Farnsworth the hook. I was quite surprised, then, to see him issue warnings. Needless to say, Yankee fans were quite pleased to see that Manny was almost drilled in the head. They had been calling for drillings for Manny and Papi all night long.

I'm glad Beckett didn't retaliate that night. Let the Yankees wait around a few months before A-Rod or Jeter get drilled in the leg.

Manny's being quoted on the Globe Web site as saying that Farnsworth didn't deserve the discipline, that the RS hit one of their players (A-Fraud) and Farnsworth was just protecting his players.

He's going out of his way to be the nice guy and stay above the fray but I wouldn't mind seeing him re-think his comments. It's almost like he's saying the RS brought this on by hitting A-Fraud.

The crap part of this is that Farmsworth got suspended. I would have preferred he just get fined. The more he pitches for the First Round Exit Specialists, the better off we are. The guy sucks. He's pretty much a joke. He says he sucked last year because of Torre. Gimme a break.

who knows if it was meant to hit manny

a little odd that a pitch gets thrown behind a hitter who hit 2 hr in the game?

I don't know if you can hurt Manny by hitting him in the head.

Thanks for the quality feedback.


================================================


Is my memory failing me or is this unprecedented? I mean, the umps didn't eject Farnsworth in the moment & yet MLB steps in after the fact & administers a harser punishment (i.e. 3 game suspension).

Sure, the suspension doesn't mean anything in the scheme of things but I'm glad that MLB stepped up & acknowledged that the incident deserved more than a warning to both benches. Thank you Selig for finally getting something right.

Girardi appears to be on the fast track of turning the 90's perception of the Yankees as the 'classy guys who win' back into the *ssh*l* Yanks of the 70's' that you simply can't stand...unless you're a Yanks fan.

Still looking forward to the retaliation pitch to Jeter and/or A-Rod's back side come July.

It wasn't Selig though. I guess "Yankee" Bob Watson finally decided to try to lose the nickname.

I'd still like to hear an explanation how:
a) the umpire thought nothing was awry, yet
b) the bosses in NY thought this merited a suspension

someone is terribly wrong here.

Throwing behind some one is incredibly dangerous. That the pitch was neck high only magnifies that fact. The ump was completely in the wrong for not tossing Farnsworth. I'm just glad the Red Sox never retaliated, or I imagine we'd be wondering who would start in place of Beckett for at least his next turn through the rotation. The suspension is irrelevant anyways. He'll appeal (already has), then get it reduced to a day, which will be served after he conveniently throws the night before. More than anything, I think this is a warning to both sides not to screw around this year unless they're prepared to face the consequences. Girardi talking all off season about how his team won't be pushed around by pitchers, and how they're going to back hitters off the plate probably didn't help.

This just in, 'Kyle Farnsworth's suspension was cut from three games to one Friday by Major League Baseball following an appeal by the New York Yankees reliever..........Farnsworth was to serve the suspension Friday, baseball spokesman Rich Levin said.'

Link: ESPN

Stupid, idiotic move to lower the susension. What are they trying to do, send a message that throwing at somebody's head is as trivial as a reliever missing one f***ing game? And, a seventh inning guy who may not miss one pitch. Worse, he threw behind his head.

"John McHale Jr., executive vice president for administration in the commissioner's office, heard Farnsworth's appeal Tuesday."

Send him out to the plate and have someone throw a 99 mph fastball 6" behind his head, show him what it's like. What a blithering idiot you are, John McHale Jr.