I saw this post at Baseball Analysts today, and I thought it was pretty interesting. Here's a brief passage from it, though its a pretty quick read anyways

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/...night_grady.php



I had forgotten about this game, as it's one of those games you tend to forget about after you win the World Series. Either way, after that game and his appearance at Fenway (when he got booed) he wasn't used the rest of the way and hasn't had an ERA that's even league average.

I read that article and I 100% agree with the sentiment expressed. I loved Kim when we got him. In fact, I was thrilled that we got him for just Hillenbrand.

I think we hashed this out a year or two ago on the board here. I dont remember the specifics, but I believe Grady used him four days in a row multiple times, and Kim pretty much always pitched at least back to back days. The misuse of Kim rose to the level of criminal negligence, IMHO. It may, in fact, surpass the mistake of leaving Petey in. I know none of you will agree with me on that, but Kim was a young pitcher who had put up phenomenal numbers in his young career. His promising career was ruined and the cause can be directly attributed to a period of abuse by a manager, IMHO. I feel that the ugly stuff at the end of his time here was a result of the frustration he felt from this. I think the author is wrong there... Kim was done come playoff time. It wasnt his fault, though.

Its funny, too, b/c I just heard Jim Rome yesterday talking about Mike Piazza and he was playing an old clip where he asked him what pitcher owned him and he said, surprisingly, that it was BK. Claimed he could never pick up the ball from Kim. Said he must have been 0 for 10 or something.

The Kim backers always seem to ignore the fact that the guy absolutely could NOT get left handed batters out. He had no control against them and couldn't be trusted with guys on base.

Sorry, we have had this argument over the years, and I think its revisionist history to suggest he was dependable outside of a nice stretch when he was first acquired.

For his career, lefthanders have a .382 OBP against him with an .833 OPS.

he was a stud in Arizona.
I too was thrilled when the Sox got him.
as it turned out, there was a reason he was available.

how the guy lost it so fast is a mystery.

The fact that his career was a washout was evidence that he wasn't what his proponents thought he was. You are what you are. He had a couple good stretches in his career, but whether it was his pysche or his ability, he was not cut out to be a closer for the Boston Red Sox.

No kidding. I wish somebody would look into the 2003 season and maybe write an article with a possible explanation of how he might have lost it. That would be nice.

Thanks for the memories, B.K.

You hauled the dead equine out of deep freeze, so I'll resume pummeling it.

Kim was acquired on May 29, 2003, in exchange for one Shea Hillenbrand. At the time, the Sox' "closer by committee" was sporting an ERA of something north of 5.50...strangely enough Kim was pressed into service as a starter, making two relief appearances and five starts in June. Kim's ERA in those five starts was 4.50, with a 2-1 record. Incidentally, Kim was the starter in the record-setting 25-8 win over Florida on June 27 wherein the Sox scored 9 runs before an out was recorded in the first inning.

On July 2, Kim notched his first save in his first opportunity with the Sox.
On July 7, Kim took over for Pedro in a 1-1 game with the Yankees and allowed an unearned run in his second inning of work, losing 2-1. This is the beginning of the end for Kim in Boston.
On July 12, Kim earns his fourth save in five calendar days, in his sixth appearance in seven calendar days, having pitched at least an inning every day from 7/6-7/12 with the exception of 7/10.
On July 18 and 19 Kim returns from the All Star break and pitches scoreless innings against Toronto.
On July 25 Boston rallies to tie the game in the eighth against Mariano Rivera, but Kim allows a solo home run to Jorge Posada in the ninth to lose another Pedro start against the Yankees.
On July 26 and 27 Kim pitches against the Yankees, recording a blown save and a win on the 26th and a save on the 27th.
On July 31 Kim throws 48 pitches in three hitless innings in a loss at Texas.
On August 3, in his next appearance, Kim throws 33 pitches in a two-inning, two runs allowed save against Baltimore.
On August 23, Kim makes an appearance for the fourth straight day, having thrown 17, 13, 28, and 19 pitches in the four games.
On August 26 and 27 Kim throws 21 and 26 pitches in two effective outings against Toronto.
On August 31 Kim allows a two run home run in the ninth to Jorge Posada, again in relief of Pedro.
In September Kim appears in 12 games, going 3-1 with 5 saves, allowing ten base runners and four unearned runs (in his lone loss) while striking out eleven in thirteen innings. good for an ERA of 0.00 and a WHIP of 0.54. All of which allowed the Sox to clinch the AL wild card on September 25.

So. Kim comes to Boston, single-handedly fills the most glaring weakness of the 2003 club, endures unconscionably abusive overuse by Grady, pitches like a Hall of Famer during the most crucial month of the season, but goes 1-2 with a 5.14 ERA against the hated Yankees, mostly due to Jorge Posada while in relief of beloved icon Pedro.

All of this leads you, MFLetou, to continually misrepresent his Sox career as "a nice stretch when he was first acquired" and Kim as a guy who "absolutely could NOT get left handed batters out" and "had no control against them and couldn't be trusted with guys on base".

Yeah. Right.

I'd need to see proof of this, from usage patterns (both at the time and historic) and factors beyond that.

And the rest of his CAREER, Cambridge? Is that all attritbuted to Grady Little? The entire, stinkbomb, washout of a career? All because Grady used him too much in 2003?

I believe that Bill Parcells has it right--you are what your numbers say you are. BK Kim is what his numbers say he is. In 2003, that was a good pitcher who struggled at the very end. For his career? A failed pitcher who couldn't get lefties out. You ask me to believe that the five years after 2003 is a fluke, I believe its more logical that 2003 was a fluke.

As usual, in all forums but one, we agree... Kim had a very short streak of effectiveness; that's common with relief pitchers.

There's no telling what, exactly, ruins relievers who have a short blossoming period and then fall to the dirt. Kim's one of literally thousands.

It's funny when people make posts about an article and make it clear that they didn't open the article. As it points out, Kim's OPS allowed against lefties that season was .664, actually lower than Embree's, the pitcher he was removed for. That September he gave up no earned runs (but 4 unearned all from a single appearance) in 12 games and 13 innings, despite being used 5 days in a row (August 30-September 3) and 5 times in 6 days (September 18-23).

Oh well.. shit happens, that just really reminded me of how much I liked that guy.

I don't think the Sox make the playoffs without Kim in the pen that year. By October, however, he was burned out and his weaknesses were exposed. Scott Williamson supplanted him as the relief ace late in the year either way.

Now, if we're doing the bullpen retrospective, Williamson is a guy who should be looked at. Everyone remembers how Timlin, Schilling, and the good ol' boys questioned his work effort and toughness when he got injured in that famous Yankee Stadium series in July '04, but in late 2003, he was lights out, and should've been closing game 7 in Yankee Stadium if Grady knew what he was doing. Alas, it wasn't to be.

Embree has worse numbers against lefties than righties, I know.

His OBA was actually a few points lower among lefties, but his OOBP was much higher than against righties because he had control problems against lefties. I'm not advocating that bringing in Embree into that particular game was the right way, so I really don't know what bearing that has on anything. I AM saying that he was an effective pitcher for a brief period of time, suffered a bit of a meltdown, and has sucked ever since. I just don't get all this pining for him even now. He wouldn't even make the roster.

This keeps being said, but I don't think it really holds up. His line in September was 13 IP, 11 Ks, 1 BB, 6 Hits, and an opponent's line of .136/.208/.182. FWIW his platoon splits in 2003 were .222/.320/.344 vs. lefties compared to .226/.264/.337. His K rate vs. lefties was actually higher than vs. righties, just walks were too.




As it turns out, I'm saying the first part as well. That's interesting. And what's wrong with pointing out an interesting blog post on an old player we had? If I make a thread about say Mo Vaughn's 1996's season would that have anything to do with wanting him on the roster?

The Pirates released him after Spring Training of this year, citing attitude problems.

So, he is available....

From Feeding the Monster:


I think I understated the usage, if anything. This WAS a very good pitcher. His struggles since are the result of this stretch... I think that's pretty clear. This wasnt a guy who was doomed to fail. Grady Little ruined him. We had no other bullpen arms at all at the time.

Six out of seven games three times! Absolutely criminal. I cant even imagine that happening. That's not even over a full season - we acquired him with a good portion of the season gone already!

He was most likely going to have a very good career, IMHO. He had done remarkably well so far in his career. Go look at his numbers. If we had a young reliever like that we would be excited as hell right now, even if he had some struggles with LHH. Would I want him now? No, his arm is wrecked. I wish we could have used him responsibly and kept him since then, though, in an alternate timeline kind of way.

Really BK, I had forgotten those games in NY an the memories, here in Arizona we always seem to dwell on 4 other games that October, go figure.

I don't think it's fair to say that his career was wrecked solely by his usage in 2003 in Boston. He was a full-time big leaguer in 2000. From 2000-2003 his innings pitched totals were:

70.7
84.0
98.0
122.3

Plus an extra smattering of post-season innings. He was excellent in every single one of those years.

Grady's usage of him in the 2003 post-season may have cost the Sox the pennant. His treatment by the home crowd in Boston was abominable and smacked of racism.

It should also be noted that his post-2003 ineffectiveness coincided with a move to Colorado. Throwing a buttload of high-leverage innings before your 25th birthday and then pitching at Coors Field for a few years is probably enough to derail anyone's career. I don't know if he's completely toast now or not, but it seems like he is and it's a shame. He was a fun guy to watch pitch and he's still only 28.

So five years and two rings still doesn't numb the sting? It happened, Grady was a buffoon, and it very well could have been a Marlins/Sox series that year had different decisions been made. Grady rode Kim like a mule throughout the regular season and then single-handedly euthanized him almost as soon as the playoffs began. I was at Game One. It hurt, but the Red Sox recovered. Kim somehow, did not and was lost forever. Still, posters on this board argued that Grady Little should never have been fired. "He was good with the veterans." Clearly, there were no other possible candidates on the planet who actually had a brain, that could handle veteran egos and needs. [/sarcasm] It's all about compiling the best collection of talent possible and giving them the best chance to succeed. After that, you roll the dice. This ownership group understands that, and has displayed that understanding in spades. Personally, I believe that due to the volatility of veteran relievers, you need to build the bulk of a bullpen from within. If you have Papelbon and Co. in house, you don't need to trade for a closer/ace type to ride for 40+ innings after the All-Star break. The Kim fiasco (made a fiasco by Grady Little) is history, history that has been learned from.

Agreed on all counts, NN. I was at Game 2 of that series, and yes, it was annoying at the time. The only reason I feel the need to rehash that stuff is because the treatment of some players (including Kim) by the mainstream Boston media and a certain subset of fanboys really wasn't just. We should pride ourselves on being some of the best and smartest fans in baseball, and that means giving the guys on the field a fair shake.

What a surprise! I never knew that Grady Little didn't know how to use a bullpen!