Leephus Pitch posted in today's game thread that the Herald is reporting that Ortiz is out for at least a month and may require season ending surgery.

Obviously in the short term Manny becomes the DH, Ellsbury moves to LF and Crisp starts in CF with Moss getting called up to be the 4th OF. The question is, do they stand pat or try to make a deal for another bat?

Note to Theo: When Barry Bonds' agent calls you tomorrow hang up on him.

Ortiz out at least a month

If Papi is done for the year. Sign Bonds. We don't win without the big fella's bat.

Isn't his trial scheduled for August? He could play 2 months and be lost for the season. Not to mention the impact on the clubhouse with his perpetual dickheadedness.

No thanks.

Our clubhouse is strong enough to ignore his douchitude if it appears. His bat is too good not to give him a look. I would think his name came up in the front office immediately. Plus, we lose nothing in terms of youth if we sign him.

The wild card is obviously his joke of a trial. No idea what's up with that.

I don't care if he's a racist cheating dickface, he can hit the ball. As long as it's not an absurdly rich contract(I'm assuming that the organization will get insurance on Papi), you have to look at Bonds.

That said, we still easily win the division with Manny DHing and an OF of Jacoby-Crisp-Drew, especially with our starting pitching. I'm just concerned for the postseason.

If Ortiz is out for the year, sign Bonds and let him DH for the rest of the year. If he wants to play bad enough, he will keep his mouth shut and just play.

Corey Dillion, Randy Moss, and Barry Bond.

Sure lets give it a try.

Chris Carter has been on fire in AAA. He had 10 HR's in May. He might be an option as well.

Edit: Francona on NESN said it was a sheath in his wrist. Isn't that the same injury that Nomar had that sapped his power ever since?

Forgive me but I am seriously hitting the...

I'm pretty sure Moss is the new LF and Manny becomes a full time DH. If they go externally someone like Xavier Nady would be perfect.

Hitting 324/383/538 and probably available and if he isn't then Jason Bay probably is. I suspect we see a move at the trade deadline and not before. I would rather shut Ortiz down for the year then risk his career.

Also putting Lowrie at SS would close the offensive gap a little.

Actually DHing Manny is a great fit. An OF of Crisp, Jacoby and Drew is crazy good on defense, too... a significant boost to our pitching staff.

I think the spotlight goes on Lugo if the offense struggles now. I think they really love the Crisp-Jacoby-Drew OF. Chances are now that Jed Lowrie's offense looks mighty appealing if Lugo struggles. Lugo is actually hitting pretty well right now, but you see my point.

Biggest need is still bullpen depth and set up help...

I think MDC and Hansen are coming around; I doubt they make a trade for a bullpen arm.

The other simple solution is to just let Casey DH; there won't be any power but he will hit .300

I abhor the thought of Crisp and Lugo both playing everyday. Crisp was 3 for his last 34 coming into tonight and Lugo has 7 XBH hits all year (all doubles.) They are both simply terrible, but they will probably start out with the defensive dynamo outfield, and mix and match Casey and Moss also.

boston.com says there is no tendon tear and has Francona quoted as saying surgery is very unlikely

Get Bonds to DH if Ortiz can't come back in a reasonable time frame. If not, then shop Crisp to the Pirates for Bay and see if they're interested.

I can't see any reason why they would be interested in a Crisp for Bay trade.

I wouldn't give up any key prospects to fill the hole.

And if it is established that he will return by the end of the season, then you don't make a move, just have Casey or Carter pick up ABs. When the Rays start their slide, we really won't have any competition....we have enough of a headstart on the Yanks anyway. It may cost us homefield in the end, which is a concernw ith the road struggles, but we can't sell the future short for this season.

When you say they, do you mean the Pirates? If so, then yes, another player would have to be involved in order to sweeten the deal.

What makes you think that the DRays will go on a slide? No one on that team is really playing way over his head, and they're only going to get better down the stretch in terms of talent: Price could easily come up to help the big club.

While Carter has earned a crack at some big league at-bats, he really isn't considered a real prospect. Casey's upside is probably in the .290/.350/.400 range. A first-division team can't hand 400 DH plate appearances to those sort of numbers and expect to win, especially when it's replacing someone like Ortiz.

If the big guy's going to be out for most of the year, the solution has to come from somewhere else, and it's going to involve either trading prospects or bringing in Bonds.

Sign me.

At least I won't try to **** up the clubhouse.

**** Bonds.

Depth; we have it.

All things considered, I'd rather have Big Papi batting 4th, but all we need to do to rationalize this is to realize that we only lose the difference between his production and the production his replacement produces.

I'd rather take it slow and easy, maybe get him back in crunch time, and see what a series of call-ups OR a trade (if it gets to that) produces.

The line-up, with Manny at DH and the outfield defense improved greatly (let's take THAT into account, as well, as an overall part of the net sum!) looks very, very good even without Papi.

Worst case, he's out for the season; in what I'd hope is a more likely case, we've got him (and his clutchness) as well as Curt Schilling (and his clutchness) on the shelf while a parade of hungry kids show their stuff.

We're so damn deep, we can sustain this and still win the AL East and far more.

Worries, but nothing life-threatening.

Can't wait for his next at-bat! In the meantime, who will step up??

This is interesting.

that makes a lot of sense in the short term, if it's only a month.

but if Ortiz is out for the year, I gotta admit, Bonds does too.
I can't believe he'd be a problem in the clubhouse if they lay down the law to him right up front.
(and if he balks, then we know his "I just want a ring" claim is BS).

Francona also has as much experience as anyone in managing that kind of ego.

Theo: Hey Neal! Are you interested in Coco Crisp, our 4th outfield with an on base percentage of .284 and a slugging percentage of .381?

Neal Huntington: Actually I am. I'm a fan of his speed and defense. Who would you like in return?

Theo: I'd like Jason Bay, your outfielder with a .411 on base percentage and a .543 slugging percentage.

Neal Huntingon: Jeez Theo, that trade seems slightly lopsided, but if I made it I'd be saving money right?

Theo: Actually, you'd have to pay Coco 1.5 million more this season (prorated of course!) and .5 million more next season. However, we are willing to part with a mid-level prospect.

Right now, you have Crisp's bat replacing Ortiz's in the lineup. That's not good.

What's Brian Daubach up to these days?

The team survived last year with Manny out for more than a month, wasn't it? In fact, they won the world series. Sobering up, maybe they gave back some of the lead when Manny was out. The bad thing is if they have one more injury to an offensive guy, they're screwed, or if not that, pretty severely hobbled.

True, they survived the Manny injury last year, but part of that was just resting his knee to keep him ready for the playoffs.

Okay, take this bong and let me lay this on ya:

TROT NIXON is available.

Is the Jason Bay rumor just a rumor or any truth to it, because that would be fantastic!

his name always comes up because he makes fairly big money on a bad team.
but I can't imagine PIT will just give him away.

This is just the Icing on the cake of a crappy night can it get any worse.

Internally I would like to see Carter get a shot, but I have a feeling because Francona is more familiar with Moss and Moss performed well with the big club so far this season that he would be higher on the pecking order and get the first shot.

In terms of Bonds, he was one of the best hitters in baseball last season (.276 .480 .565 1.045 ) on a team with very little offensive support. Would I rather have some of the other names mentioned as potential trade targets, sure. But Bonds doesn't cost you Bowden, Lowrie, Masterson, Bard, etc. to get, all he costs is money.

You sign Bonds to an incentive laden contract based on GP or AB where he has a reasonable base salary and large bonuses based on the GP/AB thresholds met. If he struggles, is stuck in court, or is a clubhouse problem you cut him.

One of the Redsox' advantages over most other teams in baseball is financial, this is a situation when they could use that financial advantage to their direct benefit on the field.

I personally want the Red Sox to give Carter a shot at DH until Ortiz comes back/trading dead-line.

Mainly because he has shown enough power to take a flier on. His bat is solid, his defense is just lacking but that becomes irrelevant if he's the DH.

There's no way they sign Bonds. Who knows whether he can even produce? He hasn't had a ML at bat in eight months and is well on the wrong side of 40. They've also taken his magic vitamins away.

I think it'll be Moss, though I'd like to see Carter get a chance too. He's 25 and has mashed at AAA. He strikes me as a guy who could be a useful, strictly one-dimensional player. At this point, one dimensional is ok.

To me, the concern with Ortiz is that this drags on the rest of the season. The injury is similar (according to the Globe) to the one Schilling had. He, of course, needed surgery and wasn't effective again until 2006. I'm worried.

Has this report actually been confirmed yet? We might be reacting to something that is not totally accurate.

Francona confirmed it last night.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/reds...as/extra_bases/

Craptastic.

That is all.

Unless they're getting a Bonds like hitter I would rather move Manny to DH and have better defense in the OF. Moss should be called up IMO. I like the idea of looking at Bonds if Ortiz is going to be out all season though. Yes, he's over 40 and hasn't played since last year but he also had a 170 OPS+ last year. Plus they took away his "magic vitamins" before this year.

Jason Bay would have been a good buy low candidate in the offseason but this year he has a 152 OPS+. Your not getting him for Coco.

I doubt that it will be Moss in LF. This team will not compete with him starting every day. He might get a call up to fill in the reserve hole and get some ABs, but in the end if Ortiz was out for a serious length of time the Sox would immediately have to go out and acquire someone in a trade to make up for that production. Hell, in a pinch Youkilis could play LF, so there is always that possibility. The good thing about this team is that they have a lot of guys that are flexible in the field enough to play various positions, same with guys like Lowrie and Moss.

I don't think we'll see Youk in LF, he's only played there 18 times in his career so it would be a stretch to put him out there for an extended period of time. I don't know that Moss would start but instead he could be the backup with Crisp in CF and Ellsbury in LF.

As for Bonds...no. This team does not need that circus following them around. That isn't just something players can quickly ignore and 'deal with.' That will be a huge distraction and the fans would not accept Bonds here, nor would he accept coming here. Remember that it was just a few years ago that Bonds referred to Boston as a 'racist city' and that he would never play here. I pray that this idea never even needs to seriously be thought of.



That's why I said, "in a pinch."

Whether we think Bonds is a good idea or not, it's just something I do not see this Front Office doing. To those AL teams that don't have an entrenched DH, he'd be a net positive to any of those teams. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a gentlemen's agreement not to acquire this guy. But even if that were not the case, I don't think it's necessary for us.

I'd have to say the best option for me once Masterson goes down is to call up someone like Brandon Moss.... I don't see Jeff Bailey being up here too much longer, so Moss would retake that 4th outfielder role. I would say Chris Carter as he seems to be hot, but I'd rather have Manny at DH. I remember how Manny seemed to excel at DH before we had Papi, looking at tape between at-bats, and a hitter of Manny's caliber who can concentrate on his next bat is going to be a lethal weapon in the lineup. And we can certainly miss Manny's D in leftfield. We call up Carter, and he's pretty much forced to DH because of his awful defense, so at least Moss could get a few starts here and there.

This is a difficult blow, but if any team can handle the hopefully temporary absence of their best player, it's this team.

I've heard grumblings before that Theo has a real hard-on for Adam Dunn; I expect until the ASB we rotate the AB's between, Crisp, Casey and Moss and make the best of it. If he needs surgery, I expect Theo to move heaven and earth for Dunn. He's the perfect fit...needs to be a DH, near 1000 OPS with massive power (more than Papi or Manny) and can be rented since he is a FA this winter (and will return a type A draft pick.)

If we go outside the organization (big if) I'd be stunned if it were anyone other than Dunn. Our farm system is stacked, we can afford to spend a little on something as important as Papi's spot in the lineup. The Reds are loaded with young pitching; off the top of my head they probably need a SS and a C long-term.

In the old days, a team would sometimes visit another team and leave with a new player. Boston is at Cinci June 13, 14 and 15.

I'll be your typical Red Sox center of the universe fan: Cinci needs a SS and C? Send them Lugo and Cash (and $$$$ cash) for Dunn.

I wonder what the cost of getting Adam Dunn would be. He is a FA after this season and the Reds continue to fall further and further from competition. However, Dunn would fit a huge and is a massive talent. I would think someone like Lowrie would be too much, but how about a package of Tejada, Kots/Wagner, and $$$ appeal? I personally would rather keep Dunn over Manny, but that's just me.

Not nearly enough. Lowrie, Kottaras and an upside young arm (with groundball tendencies in that park) is probably the cost for Dunn.

Until and unless Ortiz is done for the season, I'd assume that the team will go with the Ellsbury/Crisp/Drew OF with Manny DH option. If Carter keeps mashing, even if Ortiz is out for the season, I don't think you're going to see an acquisition from outside of the organization to resolve the issue - Carter will be promoted to DH, and we'll be back to the original 4 OFer situation that we've been seeing so far this season. It's really just a question of how much is lost in each of the following scenarios:

1) Offensive downgrade from Ortiz to Crisp, defensive upgrade from Manny-Ellsbury-Drew to Ellsbury-Crisp-Drew with Moss as the 4th OF.
2) Offensive downgrade from Ortiz to Carter
3) Offensive downgrade from Ortiz to *ACQUIRED PLAYER*, plus the cost of any money and prospects needed to acquire the new player.

If we take it as a given that a player who is superior to Ortiz offensively cannot be acquired, then I don't see why the team would consider it worthwhile to spend money and talent to acquire a new DH, when options #1 or #2 would be similar in term of overall team effectiveness. The benefit of getting Manny out of the OF cannot be overlooked here. If Coco can hit at all like he did before his current slump, there may be little to no overall downgrade in team performance *when defense is totally taken into account, particularly during road games.* If Coco keeps sucking with the bat, then I think we see Carter. If Carter can't produce at the MLB level, then it looks like the Red Sox may be paying out the ass in prospects to acquire as little of an offensive downgrade as possible, and that absolutely has to be the last resort.

I say stand pat, and if Dunn is served up on a platter near the Trade Deadline - snap him up.
Otherwise - Trust in Casey/Manny/Moss/Bailey/Carter/Crisp

FWIW: here's a partial list of players who have contracts expiring after the 08' season & will be eligable for free agency & thus may be available to the Sox for rent for the remainder of the season:


Moises Alou NYM
Garret Anderson * LAA
Willie Bloomquist SEA
Emil Brown OAK
Pat Burrell PHI
Endy Chavez NYM
Adam Dunn CIN
Jim Edmonds CHC
Juan Encarnacion STL
Cliff Floyd TB
Brian Giles * SD
Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN
Raul Ibanez SEA
Jacque Jones DET
Kevin Mench TEX
Craig Monroe MIN
Jay Payton BAL
Scott Podsednik COL
Carlos Delgado * NYM
Ben Broussard TEX
Richie Sexson SEA
Mark Teixeira ATL
Frank Thomas OAK
Jim Thome CWS
* - player whose contract includes 2009 option


Source: Cot's

Speculate at will.

Carter gets the gig it looks like:

http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/SoxBlo...x_recall_1.html

I have no problem whatsoever if the Sox decide to give some internal parts a shot to shine first. If it doesn't work, go get someone.

I'm still surprised that it wasn't Moss considering they both have similar batting lines this year and Moss can play the OF. Having Carter in the lineup means Manny is in LF.

Ellsbury-Pedroia-Youkilis-Manny-Lowell-Drew-Varitek-Crisp-Lugo is still a better lineup than a lot of teams we're competing with. We just lose the HR Power.

I agree that Adam Dunn would be perfect, but I don't want to give up Lowrie and Kottaras when they could just throw money at Bonds for 3 months. Giles is an interesting option too, since the Padres are a mess...honestly I haven't followed his numbers since he left Pittsburgh, and I know he's fallen a lot. I can't tell if that's just decline or from the Petco pitchers park. If we got Griffey Jr, it would take me back to my childhood.

The fact is that the Manny/Ortiz show is not going to continue forever---both guys are aging, and health issues have been creeping in for both of them. They will need to be replaced at some point--it just might be that the timeframe is being pushed up.

I'm all for giving Chris Carter a shot, too, but I would point out that they already called up the guy with the best production in AAA--Jeff Bailey--and I'm not sure he's even had a hit (though he seems to walk a lot).

Jason Bay for Coco Crisp is the type of suggestion that gives message boards like this a bad time. It will take significant resources to get a Jason Bay, or an Adam Dunn for that matter. Now, the Red Sox may decide that they want a longer term solution, and make a deal for one of those guys, but its certainly going to take a number of good propects to do that kind of deal.

My bet is that they try to make due with Casey, the 4 man OF, and the AAA(A) guys.

We arent getting Dunn ... it would be far more likely we could get Griffey once he hits #600 IMO

I just hope whatever happens, we dont sell the farm for 3 months of a guy if in fact Papi is done for '08

Maybe instead of us improving our lineup, we can simply convince our upcoming opponents to trade Eric Gagne amongst themselves.

Give Gagne a chance to finally earn his World Series ring.