bigbilly
Jun 18 2008, 10:10 AM
I don't know if this is enough to start the thread for the "official" trade season, but since July 31 is only 6 weeks away and rumors are going to start filtering in, maybe it's time.
The Chicago Tribune
is reporting that the Cubs are interested in Coco Crisp and have been scouting the Red Sox for a possible Murton/Hill for Crisp deal.
QUOTE
The Cubs recalled Matt Murton from Triple-A Iowa on Tuesday and sent Eric Patterson back down, though they may just be showcasing Murton for a possible deal.
"We hated to send Patterson out, we really did," manager Lou Piniella said. "He's a good young man. We just needed a right-hand bat. We lost Soriano, and we brought up two left-handed bats (in Patterson and Micah Hoffpauir).We're happy to have Murton back. Let's hope he can come in here and swing the bat and help us."
Or perhaps help someone else, because Murton definitely is not in the Cubs' long-range plans.
General manager Jim Hendry sent special assistant Ken Kravec to scout Boston this week in Cincinnati and Philadelphia. The Cubs still are interested in Red Sox center fielder Coco Crisp,and now may be willing to include Rich Hill in a multiplayer package. Murton was acquired from Boston in the Nomar Garciaparra deal in '04.
After the Cubs demoted him May 1, Murton hit .298 at Iowa with one home run while playing exclusively in left field. He had played in 289 games with the Cubs from '05 to '07, so the demotion was difficult to digest.
Manny's ps2
Jun 18 2008, 10:30 AM
Coco's stock has certainly risen...
Rich Hill and Murton? Sounds pretty enticing to me.
Tomclash
Jun 18 2008, 10:50 AM
Murton and Hill are AAAA players, IMHO. Hill's whip is as mediocre as his uncontrollable fastball.
The Love Below
Jun 18 2008, 11:00 AM
Please, please, please no Trade Rumors megathread. Post them individually or something. This is going to turn into 147 pages of bullsh*t.
I edited the title. Please, we've asked plenty of times before, pick less broad topics for threads. It creates better discussion.
If you have a question about this, please PM the barstaff.
- TLB
Red Sox Fan2
Jun 18 2008, 12:07 PM
QUOTE(Tomclash @ Jun 18 2008, 11:47 AM)

Murton and Hill are AAAA players, IMHO. Hill's whip is as mediocre as his uncontrollable fastball.
I don't know what else you want for a 4OFer. Granted he is a tremendous defender, but he can't hit. I really like the idea of getting Rich Hill because it gives the organization even more depth because he has options. Granted he is wild and probably will always be, but he is still relatively young (28) and he doesn't give up many hits. He also has a solid K/9 ratio and last year had a G/F of 0.92.
Plus, he was born in Boston, MA. Just another guy to root for
Tomclash
Jun 18 2008, 12:39 PM
QUOTE(Red Sox Fan2 @ Jun 18 2008, 01:04 PM)

I don't know what else you want for a 4OFer. Granted he is a tremendous defender, but he can't hit. I really like the idea of getting Rich Hill because it gives the organization even more depth because he has options. Granted he is wild and probably will always be, but he is still relatively young (28) and he doesn't give up many hits. He also has a solid K/9 ratio and last year had a G/F of 0.92.
Plus, he was born in Boston, MA. Just another guy to root for

He's from Boston and you're right - that's a plus.
I would rather have one above replacement level BP arm than two AAAA players.
Who gets booted off the 40 man squad and if it is a "multiplayer trade" do the Sox have to give up another player?
Hill has 24 BBs in 25.1 innings at Iowa - not sure the Sox need that coming out of the BP. If Farrell thinks he can correct that - which means controlling the "fastball" - the deal becomes more attractive.
In essence I think the Cubs get a starting OF for two minor league players in their late 20s.
Manny's ps2
Jun 18 2008, 12:41 PM
QUOTE(Tomclash @ Jun 18 2008, 10:47 AM)

Murton and Hill are AAAA players, IMHO. Hill's whip is as mediocre as his uncontrollable fastball.
That's odd, since he finished 8th in Whip in the NL in 2007....Hmmm.
Yazfest
Jun 18 2008, 01:01 PM
i just wonder if this is the right time with Ortiz out and Manny nursing a sore hammy. We need our outfield depth.
Mike LansWho
Jun 18 2008, 01:08 PM
QUOTE(Yazfest @ Jun 18 2008, 01:58 PM)

i just wonder if this is the right time with Ortiz out and Manny nursing a sore hammy. We need our outfield depth.
How would trading 1 OF'er for another OF'er plus a pitcher hurt your outfield depth?
Yazfest
Jun 18 2008, 01:21 PM
QUOTE(Mike LansWho @ Jun 18 2008, 02:05 PM)

How would trading 1 OF'er for another OF'er plus a pitcher hurt your outfield depth?
Because one can field at a major league level and hit at a AAA level and the other can field and hit at a AAA level. I choose the former.
Manny's ps2
Jun 18 2008, 01:44 PM
career MLB batting average for Mr. Murton - .297 OBP = 365
Same for Mr Crisp: .278 and .327
20 points in BA and 40 points in OBP - hmmm.
Tomclash
Jun 18 2008, 01:46 PM
QUOTE(Manny's ps2 @ Jun 18 2008, 01:38 PM)

That's odd, since he finished 8th in Whip in the NL in 2007....Hmmm.
Not so odd really. 2007 was last year. Look at his WHIP in 2008 in both Chicago and Iowa.
Renton
Jun 18 2008, 01:47 PM
QUOTE(Manny's ps2 @ Jun 18 2008, 01:41 PM)

career MLB batting average for Mr. Murton - .297 OBP = 365
Same for Mr Crisp: .278 and .327
20 points in BA and 40 points in OBP - hmmm.
The overwhelming difference in defense widens that gap, especially since Crisp can play CF and Murton can not. Though if you throw Hill in, i'm very intrigued. By the move and you.
Flaming Mo
Jun 18 2008, 01:51 PM
Rich Hill in the AL would be a desaster...
Mike LansWho
Jun 18 2008, 01:59 PM
QUOTE(Manny's ps2 @ Jun 18 2008, 02:41 PM)

career MLB batting average for Mr. Murton - .297 OBP = 365
Same for Mr Crisp: .278 and .327
20 points in BA and 40 points in OBP - hmmm.
Yeah, but Coco can play the field at a Major League level, apparently.
Manny's ps2
Jun 18 2008, 02:01 PM
Rich Hill is 6'5 and throws 300 mph, I'd like to see Farrell have a shot at "fixing" him.
Murton also has more pop than Coco, last four or five games aside!
Plus if Coco is going to go all gimp on us every year and then take two years to heal well enough to hit .250...Well, you get my drift.
edit - exaggerration - he throws 250 mph.
RedSoxAnni
Jun 18 2008, 04:17 PM
It looks like the Mariners may also be interested in Coco.
From the Seattle Times today:The Mariners have explored the possibility of moving left fielder Raul Ibanez into a DH role. One way the Ichiro shift to right would allow that to happen is if the Mariners can find a full-time left fielder — like Ken Griffey Jr., to name one rumored trade target — to come in and play left.
Another possibility is taking a run at Boston Red Sox center fielder Coco Crisp. If Crisp — rumored to be on the block in Boston — were to be acquired, he could play center and Reed and Bloomquist could move to left.
But for now, with the trade deadline more than a month away, the Mariners aren't tipping their hand.
bosockboy
Jun 18 2008, 04:44 PM
Coco has certainly restored his trade value if writers are using the phrase "make a run at Crisp." I think we will cash him in for relief help; Hansen's outing today was less than inspiring and I still think we need an insurance policy there. SD is still in desperate need of OF help; maybe Heath Bell is a possibility. I like Murton a lot, and Hill has a ton of potential, but would be buried here with our depth. He might even be behind Bowden on our depth chart here. If its Chicago, hold out for Murton and Gallagher or no deal.
alskor
Jun 18 2008, 08:27 PM
Wait... do people not like Rich Hill? Can somebody give me an actual reason why we wouldnt want this guy??? He's a strikeout machine. Last year he had a 3.92 ERA with 183 Ks in 195 IP. He's a curveball/flyball type but we would be nuts not to do that deal. What does he have like a year and a half of service time?? Lets just say we could get him for Crisp, we could easily turn around and trade Hill for something better than Crisp, IMHO. Have we become so spoiled that we dont think young, cost-controlled, above average starting pitchers with great K numbers are not worth trading fifth OFers for??? Really...?? I would do this deal in a second, and if they want to throw another valuable player like Murton in I would dance a jig. Im not exactly a Coco hater, either.
EDIT: I do seriously doubt we can get Hill for Crisp - that's crazy. Why wouldnt they just sign Lofton?? Same old Cubbies, though, so its always possible.
bosockboy
Jun 18 2008, 10:46 PM
FYI...Edmonds left in the 4th inning tonight with a foot ailment...maybe this ends up getting something moving on this.
john dopson
Jun 18 2008, 11:29 PM
QUOTE(alskor @ Jun 18 2008, 07:24 PM)

Have we become so spoiled that we dont think young, cost-controlled, above average starting pitchers with great K numbers are not worth trading fifth OFers for???
I like Hill too but if he's an "above average" starting pitcher, why's he in the minors?
czar
Jun 19 2008, 07:02 AM
QUOTE(john dopson @ Jun 19 2008, 12:26 AM)

I like Hill too but if he's an "above average" starting pitcher, why's he in the minors?
18 BB in 19.2 IP in the majors in 2008.
24 BB in 25.1 IP in AAA in 2008.
The Ghost of Ned Martin
Jun 19 2008, 07:19 AM
I don't trade Coco at this point unless they can fill a major need in return. I don't see where Murton gives us anything that Brandon Moss can't provide. I like Hill too but he hasn't pitched well enough to stay in the major leagues.
There isn't any need to trade him, especially with Manny's hammy issues. Hold onto him unless he returns a young catching phenom (not likely) or can bring a missing piece for a weakness that becomes obvious as the season progresses, Coco is more valuable in a Sox uniform.
john dopson
Jun 19 2008, 12:57 PM
QUOTE(czar @ Jun 19 2008, 05:59 AM)

18 BB in 19.2 IP in the majors in 2008.
24 BB in 25.1 IP in AAA in 2008.
precisely.
I knew the reason and was asking rhetorically.
Hill is a mess right now.
bigbilly
Jun 19 2008, 01:18 PM
Denials from Chicago:QUOTE
Contrary to a published report this week, the Cubs were not already pursuing veteran starting outfielders. In particular, Cubs insiders shot down a report that the team is pursuing Red Sox outfielder Coco Crisp, with one source saying the team has had no talks with Boston on the subject since spring training.
Left-hander Rich Hill, who has continued to struggle with his control since a demotion to the minors six weeks ago, is scheduled to start tonight for Class AAA Iowa after a precautionary trip to Chicago this week to have his back checked. Hill, who was fine, spent a brief stretch on the minor-league DL in May with back spasms.
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