http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...names_de-1.html

From the NY Daily News:

When you think about Derek Jeter's career in pinstripes, four-time World Series champion, World Series MVP, eight-time All-Star and captain are all labels that may come to mind immediately. But when several players in the majors thought about Jeter, they slapped him with another tag: Overrated.

In a Sports Illustrated survey of 495 Major League Baseball players in its June 23 issue, Jeter was voted the most overrated with 10% of the vote.

He got nailed with this in 06, too.

The week before, SI's Players Poll was asked the question "Which player would you want if you were building a new team?" Jeter came in second in that poll, right behind A-Rod.

Both polls prove that the players just give any answer they want to SI and its stupid pollsters.

Bwah. That's funny. I get the overrated part. While he's a good player he is on the short list of undeserving gold glove recipients and he doesn't hit for HR power. He gets on base really well and he's very durable though. And he has managed to stay at an up the middle position for a long time.

I don't get why you'd want to build a team around him, though. He's old enough for hair plugs, fercrissakes.

Just to placate those who will accuse me of needless Yankee-bashing: When I opened this thread, I expected the article to be about Varitek.

Fans who follow their own team closely are usually are about two years ahead of the curve when it comes to knowing which players have peaked and are heading to the downside of their careers. But some of these guys can fool you. Damon lost some weight and looks like his younger self this season. The same could be said about Giambi. They both were underachievers in 2007. Jeter continues to backslide in terms of offense. He'll find a way to hit .300 this season and come through with big hits when it counts but when he is compared to his younger self, there really is no comparison. I'd call him maybe the seventh most valuable player on the team this season. Let's see: A-Rod, Rivera, Posada, Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Pettitte, Moose, perhaps even Abreu. That's nine guys who have had more impact on this 2008 team that DJ. And I forgot Joba, who's pretty important, too.

I have been surprised by Damon's bounce back to something resembling his old self this year. Same thing with Giambi and Mussina. Don't take Jeter for granted, though. Some of us have to suffer through Julio Lugo at-bats. Shortstops who can hit well are still a rarity.

I'm not throwing him under the bus. Just saying he's not the same player he was five years ago. In a pennant race, I'll take my chances with the overrated shortstop past his prime. Same as I would with a few other veteran infielders like Renteria, Tejada, et al.

I would like to trade Cano for Brian Roberts. But I know that's impossible.

If you include Hughes and Chamberlain, I bet the Orioles would go for it.

If Jeter played for Kansas City, he'd be the one notable guy and nothing much more.

He's compiled some counting stats, he's a gamer, but he's a shitty captain. The Skanks named him as their "captain" aftter 1996 and haven't won anything since.

He kills the Yankee defense with his terrible play at shortstop and only barely makes up for it with OBP.

He's really no big whoop; I've never feared his at-bats, and I think he acts like a whiny punk; I'm glad he's not our shortstop when all these "considerations to his elevated stature" are combined.

I disagree! Jeter is a great captain! He brings orange wedges and water to spring training every year!

And OBP is the most important thing a hitter can do. Jeter does it exceptionally well and he plays a position that features a very low offensive bar, so that is a very valuable contribution. His defense, however, does suck. And, yes, I think too much is made of his "leadership skills" or whatever. He never offered to switch positions when they acquired ARod and had no one to play center. Biggio certainly would've. I think Biggio is Jeter's best comp for roughly comparable contemporary players in terms of skill set.

Seriously, I get naming someone captain in hockey or basketball or even football. In those games, it makes sense to designate a player who is responsible for yelling out defensive assignments, calling plays, and being the go-to guy for tactical purposes while play is going on. I.e. if Bruschi starts screaming at the cornerback that he needs to play tighter bump and run coverage during a two-minute drill, then maybe having the C next to his name gives him some added authority to do so. The same obviously applies to hockey and basketball where it is important to get back and forth on offense and defense. The coaching staff can't call every play or point out everything that everyone on the floor needs to do immediately because play doesn't stop often enough.

But what is the captain supposed to do in baseball other than bring the orange wedges and water? It's not like Damon's out there in left and Jeter is shouting at him about how to play the wall or something. And if Damon screws up the play, he's gonna see the whole coaching staff in the dugout in 5 minutes anyways. Maybe giving Varitek the C designation helps give him more authority when he's calling pitches, but it's not like that was a problem for him before the designation was made. Iunno, the whole thing seems like a bit of goofy ego-stroking to me.

Doesn't the captain have to catch the bat from the opposing captain before each game and do the hand-over-hand thing to decide who gets "last ups"?

I think there's more to it than you think.

Three Phrases Most Often Uttered by Michael Kay:
1. See ya!
2. You're watching New York Yankees baseball on YES.
3. Past A Diving Jeter!

Leadership is a subtle thing in baseball because basically batters are on their own once they step into the box. Fielders either make the plays or they don't. It's an individual sport within a team concept.

Michael Kay told a story about batting practice the other day where Cano was trying to pull outside pitches and Jeter yelled at him, then jumped into the cage and showed him what he meant. Hit the outside pitches the other way, even in BP. Then he hit an outside pitch into the RF seats to prove a point to the stubborn Cano, who is getting himself out more often than pitchers get him out. Derek doesn't need a big "C" on his shirt to show some leadership.

Red Sox fans amuse me with their preoccupation over Jeter. Let's face it: the guy had great timing. He's been in the playoffs every year since he came to the big leagues. He has spoken often over the years about the great teammates he has played with. For all I know, Jacoby Ellsbury may have the same kind of career. A lot of things in life are about timing, both good and bad. Ask Don Mattingly.

Jeter has never won an MVP so it's not like he's been given a meaningful award that he didn't deserve. Gold Gloves are popularity contests. I can show you players every year that won the award over more deserving candidates.

When I want to see bad shortstopping on a consistent basis, I turn on Red Sox games and look at Julio Lugo for a few innings. Bad hands, sloppy mechanics, pouting, and he's a lousy hitter, too.

I'll stick with Jeter through the remainder of his career, figuring even an aging thoroughbred still knows where the finish line is.

I'm staring at this for like 10 minutes trying to fathom what it means.
I hate Jeter as much as anyone but the yanks haven't one anything since 1996? Anything?
You either typed in the wrong year for his captancy, or you were in a coma from 1998-2000.

Mostly stems from hearing Yanks fans gush about Jeter being much better than he is...



Yes, Jeter > Lugo. Don't think many people would disagree with that.

Exactly. What kind of defense is that, comparing Lugo to Jeter? Grasping at straws? Sour Grapes? You be the judge.

Who's comparing? Read the post. I'm just saying that I can turn on the TV to NESN and see a lousy shortstop. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

And what did Lugo have to do with anything? He's not overrated, everyone knows he sucks. Kind of a sad little wannabe potshot at us.

...at least Lugo gets to balls.

As much as I hate capt. intangibles and agree he's overrated, he's a fine ballplayer. He should be playing 3rd base, where his defensive limitations wouldn't be so obvious. Sometimes I wonder if his gold glove is too heavy and causes his range to slip?

He's the third best SS.............................In NY.

Or maybe he's just gassed from all the beauty pageant contestants he has to entertain...

Feel free to sharpen up your anti-Yankee emotions today, guys. In two weeks, you'll be coming to the stadium for a four-game July 4 weekend series. Should be some fireworks. I hope Tampa Bay doesn't rough you up too much on the way to New York.

NYY vs. TBR - 5-5
BOS vs. TBR - 6-3

It's really not limited to Yankee fans. In fact..I'd put most of the blame on the media. Come to think of it, a lot of fans think their guy is better then he is.

Having said that I think Jeter is both over rated and a great ball player. Most people seem to think you can't be both, which is wrong.

You can do whatever you want with numbers. Here's my take: Road Sucks are 0-3 in Tampa. I believe the series next week is down there, right?

We've come a long way fellas. Before when the Yankees were winning the division every year at least their digs at us were legit -- now that we're on top the diss is that our road record isn't good enough. Grasping at straws indeed.

Oh, and 'Road Sucks.' --- AWESOME. When are you going to change your sig to 'Jonathan Papelboner SUX!'?

"Road Sucks"?????

I think you may have gotten lost, here you go... www.nomaas.org

Knew it wouldn't be long before jackson busted out the insults. Of course at his age, "Road Sucks" is about as creative as he gets. So they're the "Road Sucks," and yet they hold a five game lead over the Yankees. Does that mean NY is just mediocre no matter where they play?



I agree with this. I am much more concerned about the second place Rays than the third place Yankees.

July 4th series in Yankee Stadium? Good thing Righetti isnt still pitching.

End of discussion.

Maybe he's referring to the TB RS brawl and any repercussions there may be. As long as we have Coco, we have that covered.

Road Sucks in a discussion about Derek Jeter. Seems apt.

Agree 100%. it's part of the reason I dislike conversations about overrated / underrated -- many people fundamentally misunderstand what it means. Plus, it requires an assessment not only of how good a player is but also what general perception is.

I'm still not sure what Lugo has to do with this, though...



You're an odd one, jackson -- not sure what to make of you. Is the "reasonable fan" approach just a disguise for a trolling Yanks fan, or do you have some split personality thing going on?

No trolling. Just like an open-minded conversation. Maybe I don't stick to thread topics like is required on this board. My mind sees all sorts of things branching off from an original point.

To summarize: Yes, Jeter is about the 10th most valuable player on this Yankee team. He was once a great baseball player, now he is a great player on the down side of his career, same as Ken Griffey and a few others. And if posters want to make cracks about Jeter's lack of range, then I think it's fair to bring up Lugo's name.

And if someone posts a stat that says the Red Sox are 6-3 against Tampa, then I am going to point out they are 0-3 in Tampa. I think Boston's road record this season heading into a 10-game trip is a valid issue to bring up. That's the one thing I don't get about this team so far. They kill at home and are mediocre on the road.

You guys don't have enough threads for all the questions and concerns I have about both of our teams. That's why I stick to the Yankees' thread as much as possible. And without me being obstinate at times, the Yankees' thread would be emptier than Manny's head. But that's okay because this is a Red Sox board. I get that.

If you don't want me around, let me know.

Open minded?



Yes, nice try troll. Just admit it, embrace it, and stop pretending you're not a shit head troll.




.........

No problem. Have a good season.

I don't have any problems with that.



If we're comparing the two, or discussing shortstops in general, sure

When it's about Jeter being named most overrated, Lugo's irrelevant (unless he's somehow in that discussion).



Again, perfectly valid. But "Road Sucks" makes you sound juvenile.



Nah, you bring interesting insights at times, and I like having Yanks fans here. You really do throw off different vibes at times, though (much moreso than most people), whether you realize it I don't know. (imo)

I can see Jackson getting a little testy at times, simply because he is one of a few Yankee fans on a Red Sox board. It's really all part of the rivalry to step up and defend your team, irrationally sometimes. It's also common for someone to stoop to somewhat juvenile levels in defending their team/players.