I've heard mumblings about Bowden for Salty. The Rangers have some young C talent, the Sox are looking (actively it appears) for the catcher of the future.

Frankly, I'm torn. I have a feeling Bowden will be a very good #2 type starter...But the Sox catching situation doesn't seem to be easily mended via free agency OR internally, and I'm sure others will swoop in and start offering up prospects for some of the Rangers C prospects. Here's my blockbuster to Texas:

Masterson, Anderson, Lowrie for M Young and Salty...Maybe the sox have to add a Moss or Place....

In a separate deal they have Lugo killed.


Discuss....

Anderson in that park could be huge for the Rangers, but I don't see Masterson as being much of a fit for them. Granted he is a sinkerball pitcher, but he gives up too many HR and in that park he could have a real problem. I don't really know how good defensively Young is, but his road numbers are terrible.

A top catching prospect AND the best SS in the AL thus far this year for Masterson, Lowrie, and Anderson? Not likely. Even if you add in Moss, that's not happening.

Hey, geniuses, how about adding your own trade possiblities rather than just shoot down the one I came up with as I typed...

Sorry, I wanted to think about one for a bit instead of just coming up with one as I typed. Those always suck. I do like going after Young though, that's a good idea if you're willing to give up multiple good arms -- which i'm not sure the Sox will do.

Lord I hope not. But I do agree with your premise that we should try and trade with the Rangers for one of their C prospects.

We don't need MYoung though.

I guess I'm a knucklehead but I never try to come up with trades the Sox could/should make. That's because with half a hundred or more players at the different levels that could be involved from the Red Sox, and the same number on any other team, the odds of my nailing a trade down to each and every one of the players is next to impossible. Guess I'm just a party pooper.

Bowden+ low grade, high ceiling prospect sounds good to me. They could always use relievers so Dan Bard is a possibility. I could see them also wanting Oscar Tejada (since we already gave them Engel Beltre).

Well, I wasn;t going to put a trade in there,but I had psycho fingers that forced a trade!

Saw this on MLB Trade Rumors:

Gerald Laird, Rangers. He's currently on the DL with a hamstring strain. He should be back this month. However, the Rangers may be on the fence about selling and committing to Jarrod Saltalamacchia as the main catcher.

Kevin Goldstein at BP

Max Ramirez is a young catcher who is caught in a logjam down in Texas. They already have Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Taylor Teagarden and Ramirez looks to be the odd man out. Ramirez is not the greatest catcher defensively but his bat is what will keep him in the majors. He could be a guy that the Sox target if they look to go the prospect route.

I think with all the young pitchers coming up, the Sox will want someone who will make the pitchers feel comfortable on the mound.

I keep hearing all this hype about Saltalamacchia and Teagarden, but what exactally is expected of them?

I recall reading that Saltamallachia is the catcher of the future. He has all the necessary tools to develop into an excellent catcher, hence he was the main piece in the Teixeira-to-Atlanta deal. I don't know much about Teagarden or Ramirez. But honestly, at this point we HAVE to acquire a young catcher if we feel George Kottaras will spend his whole career as a backup. Varitek is fading, Kevin Cash is worse than Varitek, and so forth. Make a move, Theo!

ll i know of Teagarden was that he was a very good hitter/receiver in College at U of Texas...

But, that's about it...

What about Jeff Clement out of Seattle? I believe the signed Johjima to a 5 year extension last year. Maybe an offer of Chris Carter and Kris Johnson?

I think it was actually a three year deal for Johjima. Clement might come kind of pricey now that that jackass Bavasi isn't there anymore. I like the idea of Teagarden though, I got to see him play a lot when he came to school here and he was pretty impressive. Would come at a more manageable price too.

While I like the idea of going after Clement, you do realize that he is thought of as one of the best catching prospects in baseball. Baseball America has him ranked as the second best catcher prospect in the minors. Kris Johnson and Chris Carter aren't even close to being enough to get him.

Start with one of Bowden/Masterson and add either Anderson or Reddick and that is a starting point...

No way, there's a reason Salty is being converted to a 1B. The discovered he can't catch. Forget about it, it's a pointless trade.

There could be this whole thing where Laird is the incumbent at catcher while they also have Teagarden. Mix that with the fact that his bat would carry over to 1B and that he can play the position.

Still, there have always been questions about Salty's glove at catcher... and while his bat may carry at 1B, its not exactly overwhelming. Id hate to trade some very good prospects for an average-ish first baseman.

More likely they'd be able to pry Johjima out of Seattle after the season, as M's ownership puts the team up for sale and the new baseball braintrust realizes what a bad deal Johjima has. Maybe they could use a utility infielder like Julio Lugo.

As for Clement, Carter/Johnson isn't a realistic offer....

If there really is a deal in the works that has Bowden for Saltamalacchia, I think we have to get it done. Our rotation that may or may not exist in the near-future:

1. Beckett
2. Matsuzaka
3. Lester
4. Buchholz
5. Masterson

Of course Masterson may be plugged into the 'pen, and we may sign a #5 seeing as they can be easily acquired on the market. My point is I think we have enough pitching depth to be able to trade Michael Bowden, especially because we have an obvious weakness at catcher and it will only become worse. Taking a risk on Salty would be a wise move. Heck, what kind of a package could we get from ATL for Bowden + Crisp? I recall hearing that ATL was in the market for an OF and wanted Xavier Nady. Would they settle for Coco?

EDIT: I was going to suggest that perhaps Timmeh will be moved into relief at one point, but I realized that there would be no point to substituting another catcher just to catch his knuckler, and then subbing that catcher out again. Looks like Timmeh will be our #5 until he decides to retire, but that's a move I like anyway

Saltalamacchia.

Also, there is no deal involving Bowden in the works. It's pure conjecture.



Saltalamacchia hasn't been on the Braves for almost a year now.

Theres going to be a major log jam in Texas down the line...Teagarden, Salty, Ramirez, Davis, Smoak etc.

I love Bowden and would prefer not to trade him, but Texas is where you need to look for C help if thats what the Sox want to do

I'm starting to wonder if the spelling headaches will be worth having him But yeah, I think we can only offer Texas our pitching, my mistake on thinking he was still with the Braves.

It's not overwhelming, but it's enough to carry over. Having him work at 1B increases his versatility and actually helps increase the value of Salty, Teagarden, Laird, et. because they can just turn around and say, "we don't need to trade Salty or Laird/Teagarden because we can move Salty to 1B and have one of the other two catch for us".

I always heard he was well-rounded, just going by word of mouth. What are his short-commings?

I don't see why Texas would be in love with Bowden. Don't get me wrong, he is a fantastic prospect, but Texas doesn't seem like an ideal place for a flyball pitcher. I would assume (unless they don't care about guys giving up HR's) they would take this into consideration. I would think it would take a guy like Masterson to get something done with Texas. Granted he hasnt figured out how to not give up homeruns to lefties yet but he is still young and can adjust.

Saltalamacchia, what, a good old guinea, dago, wop, greaseball, goombah name like that? No sweat. Bring him over (if he can play).

Oops, edit, left out the "la" part first time. Maybe you're right.

Bowden may be a guy who tends to create fly ball outs more often than Masterson (not too sure about that), but Masterson has problems with walks, lefties, and the long ball. Bowden is a better prospect for them.

If it took Bowden AND Masterson, I'd do it in a second. Going forward, the issue for the Red Sox is NOT starting pitching, it's the catcher position. If you can fill that hole with a very good, cheap, young player, you do it, especially when the cost is at a position you're loaded at.

Assuming Beckett is resigned when his contract is up, the next 5+ years look like a rotation that includes Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, and Buchholz. That's 4/5 slots solidly filled. If the front office can't dig up a 5th starter SOMEWHERE, they have no business running a Major League team. As it is, you have at least one more year of Wakefield in that spot.

So basically, Masterson and Bowden are both expendable. Now, whether you think you can get better than Saltalamacchia is up for debate, but both of those two should be on the table in a possible deal for a good young catcher.

I'm trying to think it through...I think Salty is probably our best option. I'm going to assume he's the most ready, has the best projections, and since catchers are rare he may be the only option we can physically trade for.

Salty or J. Clement would be fantastic for the future. But I think we all agree that acquiring one of those players will be costly.I would deal Bowden in the right deal but I think Masterson will be a better pitcher for the long haul.But he has to cut down on giving up those dingers.

I just read on MLBtraderumors that old friend Josh Bard will activated from the DL in S.D. and will immediately be put on the trading block... Interesting!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

There are slim pickin's for "young" catchers in the minors that other teams have that the Sox would want.

In the Pacific Coast league, there the "top hitting" catchers are way down the list. The first two listed are 28 and 29 years of age, so they aren't "young".


In the International League it gets even worse.

Matching up a good trade with one of those catchers would be the next hurdle, but give up a good young arm for a catcher that can't hit is crazy. The Sox could sign Tek for a few more years and at least we would have a guy who can call a good game and hit the same as those other "young" catchers.

There is this Mexican League catcher who can hit and is only 26, but could he hit mlb pitching? I doubt it.

One guy I haven't really seen mentioned is J.R. Towles of the Astros. He has struggled offensively this season and has been back and forth between AAA and the majors, unable to claim the starting job. If the Astros sour on him and decide to go with a veteran for 2009 then he may become available...

http://firstinning.com/players/Justin-Towles-a/

2007

AA .324 .422 .551 973 (216 AB)
AAA .279 .340 .279 619 (43 AB)
MLB .375 .432 .575 1007 (40 AB)

2008

AAA .279 .380 .574 954 (61 AB)
MLB .143 .250 .264 514 (140 AB)

BP's Kevin Goldstein projects him as a .280-.300 hitter with 10-15 HR and plus defense.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7081

Realistically what is the chance the team does get a young catcher at the deadline? Slim. In the off season you would have to look at a few things.

1) What is the market and what is the demand?
I personally do not believe teams are in a hurry to deal their young catchers. However if any team could do this and take the risk, its the Angels. They have a ton of young talent including Napoli and Mathis behind the plate. Mathis I believe is more technically sound than Napoli. Solid game caller.

2) What would said team want in return for a young catcher.
Read the market, the teams that could use catchers are dwindling. The Redsox, Yankees,t Chi Sox, Tigers, Royals are some of these teams. Making a lateral move is very difficult, however if you can find a need you can match those needs up and absolutely make a deal that makes sense on both sides. With the Angels it would be power hitting and relief pitching. This rules out Bowden and maybe Masterson if teams look at him and project him as a SP. Bard is an option but does he have the mentality to perhaps be a closer in the future?

3) How much is too much?
If the Sox see a target and can acquire said target, the asking price will always determine if the trigger is getting pulled. Everyone would love to see our 2010 lineup include Salty or Max Ramirez or Doumit or Mathis. But whats the price? If its a combo of Lars Anderson, Tejada, and Almanzar then i'm not biting. A catcher can be found on FA.

What happens in the off season as a prediction? Sox resign Varitek for 1 year team options for a 2nd and 3rd meanwhile trade for Ronny Paulino. While giving up almost next to nothing. Hes severely fallen out of favor in Pittsburgh, and would come on the cheap and is still young.

All good points. The other thing is that it appears we are now staring down the barrel of needing a full time catcher. If that is the case, we cant be just expending resources to go get just a decent young catcher. Id rather overpay for a long term solution first. Save our chips for the big push.

Wouldn't a good young catcher BE that long term solution?

Just because they may be expendable to the Red Sox does not mean you deal two top pitching prospects for a mid level minor league catcher. I will put money on this fact, if we offered Texas, Bowden and Masterson for say Max Ramirez they would accept quicker than Kupchick did Gasol. Even Salty...you give to get in this case but you also don't want to deplete your club too much for the future, or else fans will be making a new thread next year clamoring for a young starter. They have to get a few offers for catcher than assess themselves which deal is worth it.

I'm not saying you just offer those two for a catching prospect straight up. Maybe you trade them for multiple slightly lesser prospects and then send some of those for the catcher. Maybe it's a multiplayer deal for say a young catcher, a decent reliever, and a lesser prospect. Whatever. There are any number of things you can do, and obviously you look for the right deal. I'm just saying that those two players probably aren't going to become important pieces of the Red Sox (unless Masterson stays in the bullpen) because the rotation is basically set for the foreseeable future, so there's no real reason to hold on to them. Especially when the team has a glaring hole that will need to be filled if not in 2009, then definately by 2010.

I haven't given up hope that someone will come out of the Sox system. Luis Exposito has been looking pretty goo and at 21 has risen to the A Advanced level this year.

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/exposito-luis.htm

I don't know about him looking like pretty goo, but he hasn't really been all that great. His OBP is a measly .318 and he's playing in an extreme hitters park in a hitters leauge. Not saying he won't develope, but this is the same leauge where Mark Wagner hit .318/.406/.533.

The Rangers are one of the only teams with catching depth in Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Gerald Laird, Taylor Teagarden and Max Ramirez, and nearly eight teams have been trying to deal for one. The Yankees are one of several clubs in on Laird, and Boston is in on Teagarden.
From Gammons Blog today

Paul Lo Duca and Johnny Estrada. They both have been to an All Star game.
Are they worth anything?

After Tek's selection to the all star team this year you're still using that as a criteria?

Good one. Tek was voted in by the fans. Just be interesting to see if these guys pop up anywhere.

I think Tek will reinvent his swing this offseason and make it more compact. He has been going the other way the last week or so.

Tek was not voted in by the fans, he was voted in on the players ballot.

I wouldn't count on Tek re-inventing anything, I mean he's 36 (37 by next season) and I really don't see him coming back. He's been awful at the plate this season his OPS is .656. That's Jason Kendall bad (and even Kendall has a .330 OBP)

Bottom line is, Jason Varitek is a replacement level catcher who's defense and throwing arm have slipped significantly from his glory days. If I was the Red Sox I would beg him to retire and sign a personal services contract...

He probably wouldn't retire, since someone will pay him for 1-3 more years, but can a guy sign a personal services contract to take effect once he does retire?

Anyway according to Cot's the available catchers in 2009 are:

Catchers
Rod Barajas TOR
Henry Blanco * CHC
Johnny Estrada WAS
Toby Hall * CWS
Adam Melhuse TEX
Mike Redmond * MIN
Ivan Rodriguez NYY
David Ross * CIN
Javier Valentin CIN
Jason Varitek BOS
Vance Wilson DET
Gregg Zaun * TOR

*- Option

So, it's pretty bleak, looks like a trade is our only option... Teagarden?

I suppose its all relative to what they can get in return, but I would imagine that the Rangers would probably trade Laird then Ramirez, Teagarden, or Salty. Laird will be entering his second arbitration year and will be 29 next season.

2006: .296 .332 .473 .805 (243 AB) 105 OPS+
2007: .224 .278 .349 .627 (403 AB) 64 OPS+
2008: .307 .362 .431 .793 (202 AB) 116 OPS+

The thing is I have know idea what it would cost in terms of prospects to get him, I certainly wouldn't give up one of our top SP prospects.

One guy I have always liked as a bit of an offensive catcher is Michael Barrett, but he hasn't been healthy or hit well in San Diego. He also has a poor CERA and CS%. (2004: .826 OPS 2005: .824 OPS, 2006: .885 OPS, 2007 Chicago: .734 OPS, 2007 San Diego: .521 OPS, 2008: .572 OPS)

The guy I think I want and will be available for a trade is: Bryan Anderson from St. Louis (their 3rd ranked prospect according to BP)

Anderson is a guy to look at, this year at AA .388 .412 .525 .937 (80 AB) AAA .313 .396 .415 .811 24/30 BB/K in 176 AB 2007 in AA: .298 .350 .388 .738 in 389 AB.

The Cardinals have Yadier Molina signed long term (09:$3.25M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$5.25M, 12:$7M club option ($0.75M buyout) ) so I think you could swing a deal if you can get a fit with what the Cardinals are looking for.

It would probably cost a Lowrie (fills SS/2B) or one of our top pitching prospects.