Will Joba throw at Youks again? This is the first time Joba will face Ortiz... how inside will he throw against Papi? The bitching by Yankee fans to throw at Papi, including the biggest bitcher, Mike Francesca, is well documented. With the Torre era over, Girardi seems to have been listening to the complaints.

Before any Yankee fans come in and start pissing and moaning about the game where Pedro hit both Soriano and Jeter, let me pre-emptively state, Soriano's stance set him up in the strike zone and Jeter is right on the edge perpetually diving over the plate.

Lastly, Mr. Beckett was doing some serious jawing at Joba from the dugout after Joba threw at Youks for the third time. Will Beckett retaliate if he has a lead or if he is down a couple runs? I predict Arod may be the recipient of any message...

Thoughts?

I just hope the Sox don't play like shit and win the series like they should instead of making an already tight playoff race tighter

Youks also dives over the plate. And this isn't an issue just about the Yanks and Sox. Today's hitters all want to cover the outside part of the plate. The pitchers have a right to back them off the plate with inside pitches. I saw it the other day when Glen Perkins when up-and-in on Jeter and Giambi. It was no big deal then and it won't be for most knowledgeable baseball fans on Friday night the first time Joba backs Youk off the plate or Beckett does the same to Jeter and others. It's baseball. Because it's the Yanks and Sox, though, it gets blown out of proportions by ESPN and anyone else who wants to buy into this crap.

Why does everyone forget that Jeter swung at the pitch that hit him?

Well, it's not crap that Joba threw at Youkilis last time.

I'd prefer to see clean games, so I hope he doesn't do it again.

I hate these games. They're for the rest of the country, not Red Sox or Yank fans. I'd rather just NEVER play the Yankees.

Ever.

I don't think much will happen this weekend. Last time they played 7 batters were hit in one game for both teams and there didn't seem to be any ill will afterwards.

I don't want them to hit him intentionally, but the Yanks better pitch Ortiz inside, it doesn't make sense not to considering he's just returning from his wrist injury.

It's a lot easier if you just focus on the baseball. This rivalry is the best thing I've seen in the American League in my lifetime. ESPN and all the other media play up all the "back stories" and enflame the issue with incendiary coverage because those tactics enhance ratings and sell newspapers. But if you just boil it down to the players on each side, it's the best thing going on a daily basis for six months that we have in modern sports. I love the fact that we get to see this 19 times per year, minimum.

I agree that they're way overblown, but NEVER play the Yankees? Too much stress, or tired of the hype? I admit that the games between the Sox and Yankees were more "fun" years ago. Two teams that always had star power, and geographically close enough to have fans for both sides at the games. And, the inevitable beer induced fights down the right field line late in games. Then again, the results are much better now, starting in 2004. I think I saw that it's within a game or two in the last hundred or so games (Francona era?).

Yes, Youkilis definitely does, just like Jeter. Sadly, most Yankees fans I've seen (not you, not others here, I'm sure) don't seem to understand that.

However, that doesn't really account for Joba, say, throwing behind him.



and the pitch to Soriano was close to catching the plate (although it was high), iirc -- when he dug in at the plate, his hands were hanging over, as opposed to Jeter, who dives in

I loved that -- both had to leave the game b/c Pedro did what he should, but neither was hurt. (Of course, I forget whether we won)

I just don't enjoy the stress or the hype. I don't look forward to these games; I just want them over with. And I find them hard to watch.

Or at his head...

Throwing inside to gain the inner half of the plate is a big league pitchers job. Throwing at someone's head is bush league (This includes Pedro's attempt to decapitate Karim Garcia... but Pedro's response to the media was priceless).

Or for Farnsworth throwing behind/over Manny's head.......twice.

The series this weekend will stand on its own merits. Past history means nothing. If you're attending one of the games, check out the players on the field during BP and you will see that many of them are friendly. Posada is one of the few red-ass players on the Yanks. Youk probably isn't friendly with a lot of the Yankees, especially Joba. But the truth is, most of the 25 players are basically friendly rivals. The players don't have as much hate for each other as the fans do.

I guess dredging up old feuds stokes up the rivalry for some fans. For me, both teams have a clean slate going into the weekend. These three games will create new memories and maybe swing the momentum from one team to the other for a few days or weeks.

Just remember, the regular season ends with the Yanks at Fenway. Maybe the playoff field will already be set and those games will not matter. I hope they're tied for first with three games left and the WC goes to the loser. That would be great fun.

I was thinking the same thing. I thought both HBPs were considered strikes (although I may be wrong with the Soriano pitch).

I don't think it's a matter of Joba being "dumb enough", I think it's partly a matter of a guy who throws 96+ mph with questionable control at times facing some hitters who like to lean out over the plate. As long as he isn't throwing at anybody's head, I'm not really expecting to have any issue with HBP in tonight's game. My main worry would be Beckett retaliating for one of the more innocent varieties of HBP (ditto Joba if Beckett or one of the bullpen arms like Hansen hits a Yankee), or somebody like Coco being dumb enough to charge the mound and start a suspension-causing brawl. There's a big difference between headhunting and a garden variety HBP. As long as it's just the latter, and not the former, hopefully things won't escalate unnecessarily.

Actually, I've not been watching all the Red Sox games lately, even though I get just what's on ESPN or Fox or TBS or the current two weeks free Comcast. The games are just far too long, especially Sox - Yanks games. The NFL did something about too-long games, guessing about 15 years ago. I really wish baseball would, but they take the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach, as attendance continues to break all time highs. I mean, the game has, what, 7 - 8 minutes of real action, and now it's stretched out to more than three hours, and the AL is worse, and Sox-Yanks worse still. I shouldn't complain with the current string of good Red Sox teams, but, come on. It could take years for the game to lose significant popularity, but a commish like Selig wouldn't see it until it hit him between the eyes, and broke his glasses. I do know they had an attempt to speed games up this year, and it netted 1 - 2 minutes a game. Wow!

But, I'll be watching this weekend.

This is true. Although, since Lard Ass was throwing at his head, I don't see how relevant it is to this particular discussion.

I just checked the Yankees' roster. Nobody named Lard Ass on the squad.

Ummm, actually my intention starting this thread was to specifically discuss the games between Boston and New York this weekend, so, under this topic, it is an issue just about the Yanks and Sox, but thanks for stating all the other offtopic obvious stuff. It was a real edification.

This statement would be valid if the pitches didn't go behind Youk. The fact that he dives toward the plate has nothing to a ball thrown head high behind him

How's this: No, Joba will not throw at Youks on Friday night. Yes, he will throw inside to Papi. No, Girardi isn't listening to the complaints. He has proven to be a much better handler of pitching staffs than Torre. And no, Beckett won't throw at anyone because the Red Sox learned their lessons about how beanball battles can hurt a playoff contender when Coco ran on the field against Tampa and got several of his teammates suspended along with himself.

I'd believe ya....if it wasn't for the fact that Girardi was one of the complainers himself before he was named coach of the NYYs.




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That's different from throwing at batters, though, which is what a lot of Yankees fans want. If nyyfans is like it used to be, the ignorant masses want Ortiz thrown at because more Yankees batters get hit than Sox batters and because of the damage he's done. The more knowledgeable among them advocate what Girardi said, and what jackson said, which is just sound baseball.

Hear, hear. "Moving their feet" is what all pitchers want to accomplish. Looking back on the Joba/Youk thing last August, I think that was just a young, impressionable kid trying to please his teammates in the wrong way. He paid for it with a suspension and a lecture from Joe Torre, who knows a little bit about moving hitters off the plate, having caught Bob Gibson for a few years.

I've seen enough of Joba's pitching this year, especially as a starter, to appreciate that his control is not always there. That's my big worry tonight. He gets a little out of whack with his delivery. It's very easy to spot in the first inning. If he's bouncing off his landing foot and hopping towards first base, he's overthrowing and his fast ball will be sailing on him. If he lands in the same spot and isn't bouncing, his control should be fine.

Let's be very clear here - the ball behind Youks and the balls at Manny were not intended to make them move their feet. A ball 6-12 inches off the inside part of the plate from the letters to the knees is intended to make hitters move their feet and is baseball. There is no way on this planet, those pitches to Youks and Manny can be considered as an attempt to have them move their feet. That was not baseball.

P.S. Let's also not forget the pitch at Youks was because Youks made a hustle play that pissed Joba off. Joba was being a petulant little bitch after he made a poor decision to attempt to block the plate and Youks made a clean and appropriate baseball play when Joba was in a defenseless position. In reality, Youks could have plowed Joba over and it STILL would have been a clean play.

I have nothing to add, I just felt the part I quoted needed to be repeated.

Yep.

Personally, I am hoping to come home tonight to highlights of Joba getting his fat ass handed to him, knocked out after less than an inning pitched.

Put these cockroaches away.

**** the Skanks.

I agree with Kylexray and BigSlick here. We should not just rush over the fact that Youk did not take the opportunity to bowl over Joba, (which would have been the normal play for someone guarding the plate).

I have heard several yankee fans ridicule Crisp for his reaction yet defend Joba for his.

Spot on, Kyle. I was slightly disapointed that Youks didn't take the opportunity to go in on his feet, shoulder dropped, after asshat threw at his head 2 times in a row.

Think Youk would like to see him covering the plate again?

I don't think I've ever said this about a player before, but Joba deserves to get hurt.

My blood is still boiling over that pitch (and a few in the 9th). He already has gotten suspended for throwing at Youk. MLB needs to put a stop to this and suspen him before the start of the next game. If not, I hope Papelbon walks over to Joba and has the folowing conversation.

Paps: Jeter or ARod?

Joba: Huh

Paps: Jeter or ARod? I'm letting you pick.

Joba: Pick what?

Paps: Pick which one I'm going to decapitate because you keep throwing at Youk.

Nah -- somebody should throw at Joba's dad.




Yeah. You know what, though, I'm not pissed so much b/c the Sox lost, but b/c the ump basically took it out of their hands. Even the Drew pitches I can live with, because he was calling that weird high / outside strike all game for lefty batters. But Lowell, and some others, he was basically giving Rivera strikes off of both corners.

Throwing at Jobas dad? Thats just wrong and cold man

I didn't say at his head.

I feel the same way. I get worked up again just thinking about. Joba Chamberlain is a punk. Id like to see him physically harmed. There is no Yankee I despise more. Ive never seen a rookie with this sense of entitlement since... well, Dustin Pedroia.

Seriously, though, Joba is a b****. Who does he think he is with this s***? Its ridiculous and there is no place for it. I would trade letting ARod become the all time HR king for this prick having a career ending injury. He returns me to pre-2004 levels of Yankee hatred every time I see his ugly face. Fat piece of s***.

Joba's not too bad when he's on your side. He's a throwback to Bob Gibson, Sal Maglie, Early Wynn and Allie Reynolds, guys who would go up and in to gain an advantage against good hitters. That's what Joba is doing, of course. Youk had been on base five straight times in their first five meetings -- two hits and three walks. That changed tonight. Joba got into Youk's head even before he went up and in. Youk had a real lame hack on a slider that broke over the inside corner in the first inning.

Youk is Boston's toughest player, mentally speaking. Joba has been challenging him for a year now. I'm not sure where he gets this from because that kind of headhunting hardly exists in today's game. The hitters started to get an edge after the pitchers almost ruined the sport in 1967-68. MLB lowered the mound, shrunk the strike zone, juiced up the balls and brought the fences in. Pitchers have little to fight back with.

Boston can't retaliate today until Wakefield is out of the game. I expect to see Jeter go down in about the seventh inning and all hell will break loose, just like in Game 3 of the 2003 ALCS. The worm has turned and now the Yankees are the bad guys, the headhunters. The Red Sox, who seem distracted by the Manny situation, have to fight back, otherwise I may be questioning whether this 2008 Red Sox team has the same kind of heart and desire that the 2003-04 Sox had. I'm sure they do. And now is the time to show it.

There is a world of difference b/t up and in and throwing at a guy's head. I was right there with you defending his right to throw inside. That's not what he did tonight.

Joba's not a throwback. He's a punk, and he deserves to be hurt.

He won't get hurt, of course, because he's a pitcher. But if Jeter or anybody else does get hurt by a HBP -- regardless of how serious it is, short of death or a coma -- I will laugh my ass off. And even if it were as serious as one of those, I wouldn't laugh, but I'd still say Joba was the only person to blame.

I can easily understand the anger of Red Sox fans over Joba. He is throwing at Youk's head. Repeatedly. But he's also a great young pitcher. He hasn't thrown at anyone else's head around the league. Just Youk. That's the wierd part.

After all the back-and-forth over relieving and starting, Joba proved last night he can eventually become to New York what Pedro once was to Boston -- a dominating pitcher who occasionally throws at the heads of other players. Pedro got away with it for years. I'm not real remorseful about having Joba in pinstripes, not after what I saw from Joba on all the other pitches he made except for that one to Youk, which was followed by a crazy slider for strike three.

Pedro threw inside.

Joba throws AT people.

Skanks win a really skanky game 1-0.

It's 5-5 on the season.

I hope those ****ing cockroaches get killed by all the Skank-hating umps around the league for the rest of this season.

Just go the **** away, and let us fight it out with Tampa Bay.

I really hope that before this season is over Youk gets another chance to score with Chamberlain covering the plate. Then I hope Youk's shoulder slams into his jaw, he falls back slamming his head on the plate and he goes into a coma for 18 years. After the 18 years he awakes to become nothing but a drooling vegetable.

That is exactly what he risks doing to Youkilis everytime he throws at him. I honestly feel that is the fate that the punk deserves.

I think I've actually calmed down a little since last night.

You're an idiot.

Three times directly at Youk's head. What this really tells us, even more so that Joba is a prick of the highest order, is that Youk is a big, whiney, pussy. You want to put an end to Joba and his bullshit? Kevin absolutely should have handled his business by getting at least one shot in. Joba is messing with his baseball career, his health, and potentially his eyesight. Lose the game, players get suspended, whatever. This is some bullshit Girardi and Joba are pulling off.

Youk should have charged the mound, bat in hand, and taken care of the situation. Period.

You're mixing up two very different things. I don't think anybody is questioning whether Joba is a good young pitcher or whether the Yankees should be glad to have him.

As for Pedro, let's keep in mind what Yankees fans always get their panties in a wad about if you ever mention Papelbon and Rivera in the same breath. And I disagree that Pedro threw at people's heads for years -- he threw at people often, he didn't throw at their heads often.

I have no problem with pitching inside. I have no tolerance for throwing at people’s heads. Letting the pitchers bat would help.
I also realize on occasion a pitcher is trying to pitch inside and it gets away. I wish this were the case.

If you took that seriously, apparently you're the idiot.

I mean, when would a Sox pitcher have the chance to throw at Joba's dad?

New York media misinterpreted Papelbon's remarks, not the fans. I doubt there's a Yankee fan alive who wants to see Papelbon in today's game. Because that usually means he's protecting a lead.

I mentioned Joba's strong effort because it has been a long time since the Yankees had a pitcher like this. I guess I can't help myself.

And to think, the Red Sox had the pick right before the Yankees grabbed Joba. Boston took somebody else! That could have changed baseball history quite a bit if Theo hadn't listened to the negative scouting sreports on Joba's health issues.

The Yanks have no chance this year if Joba doesn't replace Wang in the rotation.

I'm referring to the fans, not the media -- the fans who, if you mention anything about Papelbon being as good as Rivera (not this year), can't accept that fact and need to point out the obvious -- that Papelbon's career hasn't approached that of Rivera.




Many people could have taken Joba -- hell, the Yanks took Kennedy in front of him. As for baseball history, I'm going to wait until he's pitched a full year as a starter before declaring him one of the all-time greats.

I agree on both points. Pap's been better than Mo the past two years, this year Mo has been impeccable. But they don't pitch against each other. And last year doesn't matter, nor does 1996-2006.

If you remember, Pap and Rivera had a nice get-together session at the 2006 All-Star game, same as Jeter and Pedroia did earlier this month at the 2008 game (Herald had a nice story on this today). I think the players get along a lot better than the fans do -- except for Youk and Joba, which pretty much parallels the fans' feelings for the other side.

The key as a fan is to remain calm, whether your team is winning or losing. It's a long season. Joba could hit a wall after 120 innings and have a dead arm in September. That happens a lot to young pitchers.

And Boston could win today and Sunday night. Maybe Manny comes out and torches Pettitte. He sat himself down for Felix and Joba, now he gets two pitchers he can handle. Assuming he plays.

They do, which is both good and bad, imo.

Since you bring up the players v. the fans, however, I'll throw out the notion that Joba embodies the 20 year old drunk fanboy crowd. A punk, not worthy of respect, who shouldn't be tolerated as they endanger others. I don't like Jeter or ARod, and I think Jeter's overrated (though very good, obviously), but I've never had the hatred for a Yankee that I do right now for Chamberlain. And it has nothing to do with whether he's good, it's that he is either (i) intentionally trying to get a guy hurt or (ii) among the most stupid human beings on the planet.

Whether last night's incident was intentional I can't blame Youkalis for being upset. 3 times in a year now near the head would make anyone upset. I know was upset at how Pedro used the Yanks as a bullseye so I can understand the feeling.