With the trade deadline coming, I usually get excited. 2004 we lost Nomar and won.
Many names have been mentioned like Brian Fuentes, Matt Holliday this year.
What is everyones take on what will happen or not happen?

I personally would like to see us make a move. Will Theo pull the string?

Honestly, in spite of the small samples involved, I think the FO's inclination to make a move will be determined by the performances of David Ortiz and Justin Masterson over the next 6 games. Masterson in particular. The only two problems that this team seems to have are road offense (primarily getting timely hits to turn the previous hits/walks into runs), which Ortiz should help, and bridging the gap between the starters and Papelbon, which Masterson should help. Considering the high cost of trading for any big bat or significant relief help (unless you're Arizona, apparently they got a discount from the Nats), I can't see any moves being made unless one or both of Ortiz and Masterson appear to be useless over the coming week.

I agree that if Masterson and Ortiz fill the bill then the Sox may stand pat. Apparently the asking prices from teams like Pittsburgh and Colorado are insanely high, and I'd just as soon not give up another Hanley Ramirez/Engel Beltre type right now. This team will be in contention in September barring further injuries...they simply don't need to sacrifice any prospects for this year.

I don't really think it's worth paying for middle reliever types simply because relief pitcher performance is so variable. For example, you could trade a couple somewhat useful players for a reliever with a nice track record who is putting up good numbers in an offense-heavy environment (Eric Gagne) and he might suck (Eric Gagne).

And don't even get me started on Holliday. Blech. He's basically Dante Bichette Jr.

I don't think Matt Holliday would sit out against the Yankees. Time to bring him to Boston while letting Manny mosey on down the pike.

No, he would just be a top 15 AL OFer making as much as a top 5 and the cost of Bowden/Masterson and other high level prospects.

Which prospects are you willing to part with for a batter whose OPS has never topped 860 outside Coors?

By the way, he's missed 10 more games this year than Manny has -- apparently he'll sit out against somebody.

Matt Holliday would be the worst acquisition ever. He's going to command a big salary, he's nothing special away from Coors, and he would cost a ton in prospects. PASS.

Theo has much better data than I do to figure out who he should trade for Holliday. Theo probably won't do anything and save the prospects. As he's done in the past Manny may decide to lounge for a month and Theo I would think has now decided to let him walk after this season.

At this point I hope they do nothing, unless it's for a young catcher (which is far more likely to happen in the off season). Assuming Ortiz is healthy and Manny will be back in the lineup at some point, the only glaring need is the bullpen, and there isn't anyone out there that will be a big enough improvement over what's already out there to be worth the cost.

So your last post was meaningless, then. Shocking.

As we both know what is not shocking is that Manny Ramirez is sitting on his can testing his teammates and the loyalty of many fans. One thing can't be made into a joke and that is that Manny's knee issue is a morale builder for the Yankees and even the Rays and a downer for his own teammates. Manny has become a heavy load the last few years.

To you, clearly. I'd still like to let reality run its course and see what happens. The club, as you are fond of saying, has much better data than you do to figure out what to do with Manny. Why not leave it to them, and just watch? Why the never-ending stream of vitriol?

Can you prove there is nothing wrong with his knee?

No more than you can, Wake, but Manny's timing is impeecable wouldn't you say? You put it all together and you can surmise what Manny is up to. He's apparently playing with the team instead of for them. The only vitriol I've seen is directed at me. I don't understand why so many people here attack me instead of Manny. I'm not hurting the team.

Yes, quite a load. Without him, I bet the Sox are trying for their 5th consecutive Series win.

Regardless, what does yet another rant from you about Manny have to do with the trade deadline?



because you are a tiresome fool

Baiting is another telling sign of intelligence.

I'm quite secure regarding my intelligence.

(and I don't think you know what baiting is)

Please cease and desist, you two (chicowalker and czeckswing). You will never see eye to eye on Manny, and you are stirring up multiple threads with your bickering. Thanks...

just trying to bring some facts into the discussion and keep the thread on-topic, thanman

Well apparently he's going for an MRI, so we'll find out soon enough. But you assuming he's fine is just another example of the Manny Basher MO. There's NO reason to think he's not hurt other than the fact that you don't like him. If he says he's hurt, I'll believe him until proven otherwise. The man is trying to get a multiyear contract somewhere, and faking injuries isn't the best way to put up the numbers he would need to get a good one.

Thanks. I come back hoping to read some insight and I find a .... contest.

The Yanks have Nady and Marte. Will this get Theo thinking of a move. Would anyone trade for Manny and pick-up his option to for him to say yes like the Angels?

Are you giving up on the season or is Brandon Moss going to carry the offense?

If that deal is indicative of what any helpful player will cost, I hope not (assuming the Yanks haven't soured on Tabata, who's had a bad year, that is).

No Not giving up, just curious if the right offer is made would Manny leave. I am not giving up but the Yanks have shown by the move today they are serious about this year. We need to be on the phone as well. There are some teams out of contention badly who might give a player away like a Jon Rauch. I think this is going to be a busy Deadline. The Mariners, Pirates, Nationals, Gaints and Rangers are out of it.

I'm sure Theo is.



? There are teams out of contention, but AZ isn't one of them.

Regardless, I don't know if many guys are being given away, and even if they are, I'm not sure what the Sox trade for. Other than the pen, there isn't a glaring weakness. SS, maybe?

[quote name='chicowalker' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:23 PM' post='790571']
I'm sure Theo is.
[There are teams out of contention, but AZ isn't one of them.]

And they fleeced Rauch for not much. This might help AZ win the close NL West.

July 31st can win or lose a race. Theo needs to be activly seeking a good deal.

Sorry - totally misread what you were saying.

Are you sure they "fleeced" the Nationals, though? I don't know anything about the kid they gave up.

Precisely, but 7/31 is a seller's market. Good deals are virtually non-existent. Theo is more likely to find good value in August in a post-waiver trade...in fact, barring a major roster impact (Manny or Papi to DL, for instance) I will be surprised if the Sox make any moves this month. Sox current playoff odds (courtesy of BP) are 85% (although their ELO playoff % is only 78%). I don't think Theo will sacrifice good prospects to bump that 85% to 90%, personally.

If Delcarmen has something seriously wrong with his arm Theo will have to go and get an impact arm. Stiffness in the forearm can sometimes be very bad.A 15 day DL is most likely and pitching in the minors on rehab assignment too so we are looking at 3 to 4 weeks out.

They say the prospect could blossom to a poor man's Delino DeShields. Rauch is only 29 so he still has some years to do well, too.

Assuming we keep Manny, the offensive problems are Varitek and Ellsbury. Luckily Lowrie has solved one problem. Varitek is going nowhere. Maybe the only way to improve the lineup is to get Ellsbury out of there.

Trade for Brian Giles to play RF and move Drew to Center. It's really the only option for improvement with this offense. Ellsbury is flat out killing us right now. Giles is hitting 324/411/441 outside of Petco and is a terrific count-worker and would fit in immediately with our lineup. We can let him walk for picks after the season or pick up a 9 million team option. Pretty decent choices.

This gets Ellsbury into a super-sub OF bench role and gives us the late-inning PR threat we desperately need.

I'd like Theo to look at what it would take to get Giles and Heath Bell. This would have seemed impossible but the Yanks were handed Nady and Marte on a platter, so its certainly possible. Maybe Crisp, Hansen, Moss and a #10-15 level prospect.

Anyhow, I think this lineup could really move the line:

Pedroia
Giles
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell
Drew
Youkilis
Lowrie
Varitek

And before it comes up about Giles and Ortiz hitting back to back, Giles actually hits lefties better at an 839 clip.

I love Giles too, but his defense seems to be in the Manny/Dunn realm of absolutely horrid. Not sure the cost to acquire him would be worth the tiny bump in WARP over Ellsbury at this point...

The Red Sox seemed interested in Marte and picking up Nady wouldn't have been too bad either. Are you telling me that they were not able to put together a better package than what the Pirates got?

Manny. Seems to be this is starting to hit a boiling point. Is there enough time to find a partner for a blockbuster before the 31st ?

I'm not sure benching Jacoby is the best answer. Remember that he's a young guy and there must be some patience on our part. If anything, I'd move him down the order and have Pedroia lead off.

This seems like the yearly drama. Trade deadline nears, Manny takes a break, media goes apesh!t, fans panic, trade deadline passes, Manny is back mashing the ball, fans are happy to see a content Manny.

How about this for a fact: Manny having played the second most games on the Sox this year.

All depends on your view of Tabata -- but I think the Yanks overpaid, and I wouldn't want the Sox trading legitimate prospects for a bullpen arm and pretty good outfielder.

Without ever having seen him play, unless he develops power (which I don't think he showed a tremendous amount of before his wrist/hand injury) I don't think he is anything special as a prospect. He is very young and has had a good BA/OBP, but he is still a long way from being a MLB player.

Nady isn't as good a he has shown this year, but look at his career stats when he gets playing time, I think he is realistically a .800 OPS player (top 30 hitter in the OF). That is a solid but not great starter. Add to the fact that both Marte and Nady are cheap this year and the Pirates sold for cheap.

Casey Blake moved today. Maybe we can make a move with Cleveland like Rafael Perez. He has pitched well out of the pen for them.

Ill take Arroyo back, move him to the pen

If you look at the moves Houston got Wolf, AZ got Rauch, LA Got Blake, and the Empire got Nady/Marte these are all veterans that fill small roles in which one of the guys traded for them is almost sure to be the best player in the deal. Tabata may infact be that guy. I think this team stands pat this year honestly. Hansen has been pitching solid as has Delcarmen. Maybe Moss will get moved but I would doubt it. I personally wouldn't mind seeing a guy like Kemp on this squad, gives the Sox a youthful OF. Drew playing up to his contract has been a fantastic suprise. I don't think the Sox will do anything honestly.

yeah, Hansen was awesome today. Maybe we can trade him for a wiffle ball and bat.

I have seen enough of Hansen. He is as solid as Play Doh. I would try to trade him to Cinci and get Bill Bray he is a lefty and is comparable in age, he turned 25 in June. Hansen has two pitches and he cannot get either over the plate consistently. His manerisms on the mound look as though he is defeated before even throws a pitch. It is time for him to go.

Manny seems to always shut it down when he thinks he has to send some sort of message. No surprise this comes after he whined about his contract and then saw Boras in LA. He's certainly not a $20M guy anymore but I don't think the Sox can move him at the trade deadline. That being said, I don't think they'll pick up his option so they may decide to get something for him now, assuming they can pull off a deal for someone else to replace his production this year.

Hansen would be a prime candidate to trade but who would take him. He simply is a Major League pitcher. I'm not sold on Bucholz, no-no notwithstanding. Crisp has become so bad as to not have any trade value at all. But of the three, only Buch has trade value. They have other guys, Bowden for example, that have good trade value, but he's the ideal guy to take Wake's spot in a couple of years.

So barring a steal for someone like Fuentes, they'll probably stay pat. Maybe get a journeyman guy in the pen. In the offseason they have some work to do, fixing LF, CF, SS and C.

Mark Teixeira is being mention here in Atlanta as going to Boston for Youk. He can definetly match Manny's production. We have 20 mill for him if we can flip Manny for Ryan Church and get rid of him if will agree to go to the Mets. Just a thought. Just depends on how serious Theo wants Manny Gone. We are going to have to do something to keep the MFY's from overtaking us.

It would be interesting to see if they want to part with Youk. My guess is they'd like to see if he could finish a season strong, but if they could make that deal it may be worth it even though I'd hate to see Youk go.

How will trading Manny for Ryan Church help the Sox keep the Yankees from overtaking them?

I don't think the Sox have to make a move. We, as fans, want them to because we feel that SOMETHING has to be done. That doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do. I just can't see a deal that will make a huge difference this season. What is more likely to prove successful; trade a prospect for a BP arm or hope Oki and Delcarmen can pitch more like their 2007 selves over the next two months? Neither option is a cinch so why trade prospects?

Look at it this way, if Delcarmen and Oki aren't effective AND if Manny and Ortiz don't produce at their expected levels, this team isn't winning anything. We can trade Youk, Buchholz, Bowden or Lowrie. Or the front office can just hope that the guys who have come up big in crunch time do so again.

I'd vote for standing pat. A minor trade for a low level prospect is fine but I don't want to give away valuable assets for a player who is no more of a sure thing than the ones we have already.

Agreed.

I really don't see how giving up a cost controlled player like Youks for Teixeira, who is a FA next year annd going to want a huge contract, especially when Youks is just as good as Teixeira benefits the team in any way.

Add some bullpen arms and see how it plays out. Papi is back and that makes the lineup deeper to where you don't need JE and Coco in there together.

$

We trade Manny for Church if we get Tex. That would be the only way to over take the MFY's. It beats tradin him to The angels for Santans in my opinion. Maybe Manny has a change of heart and acts good so somebody will want him in the offseason for a reasonable salary. He is burning his bridges. The Braves also have some useful bullpen pieces too. SO if they sell we have many players to inculde to go all out to repeat. This is the talk on 790 in Atlanta today