Does Bay stay in the 4 hole, as he was in Pitt or does Papi now drop to cleanup?
Can they find a way to put Drew in the 3 slot as he'd shown great success in that slot while Papi was hurting? Who's setting (or should be setting) the table for the big bats going forward? How do you get some production out of the bottom of the order?

Place your lineup projections here.

I'll go with


Pedroia
Youkilis
Drew
Ortiz
Bay
Lowell
Lowrie
Crisp/Ellsbury
Varitek

From ESPN.com, Bay's splits by batting order position this season:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
#3 200 35 52 13 1 8 21 29 1 47 3 0 .260 .353 .455 .808
#4 190 36 57 10 1 13 40 30 1 39 4 0 .300 .393 .568 .961
#5 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .500 .500 .500 1.000
#9 1 1 1 0 0 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 4.0005.000

From 2005-2007:
#3 679 AB .278/.377/.510
#4 790 AB .286/.386/.516
#5 162 AB .290/.375/.451


I would assume that to begin with they keep him at 4, but I wouldn't really expect him to stay there. Which, keeping with what Tito has been doing, would give us:

Pedroia 2B
Youkilis 1B
Papi DH
Bay LF
Lowell 3B
Drew RF
Lowrie SS
Varitek C
Ellsbury/Coco CF




By September, assuming a lot here obviously, I'll throw this one out there:

Ellsbury CF
Pedroia 2B
Drew RF
Papi DH
Youkilis 1B
Lowell 3B
Bay LF
Varitek C
Lowrie SS

Bay vs Lefties
-- ----- AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 84 16 16 7 0 2 8 19 0 22 3 0 .190 .333 .345 .678

PantsB - that's about the third time you've posted that, and 84 at bats is small sample size cherry picking at its most pathetic.

BEAT ME TO IT! Anyway, I'm going to agree with The Green Monster's potential lineup. I was going to bat Drew 5th but I remember how he struggled there last season. Would it be a stretch to have Ortiz bat cleanup, Drew bat 3rd, and Bay bat 5th? That might not be the best for Bay, though. Hmm, how about this:

Pedroia
Drew
Ortiz
Bay
Lowell
Youkilis
Varitek
Lowrie
Ellsbury

We need Jacoby to leadoff for us so we can get more depth in the lower-half of the order. I am not particularly fond of #7-9, those could be some ugly outs (especially with Varitek).

Petey
Youk
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Tek/Cash
Lowrie/Lugo
Ellsbury/Coco

Career .276/.389/.515 in 615 AB (741 PA)


Small sample sizes are fun.

What I would like:

Pedroia
Youk
Drew
Ortiz
Bay
Lowell
Lowrie
Ellsbury
Varitek/Brown

What will probably happen happen:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Bay
Ortiz
Drew
Youk
Lowell
Lowrie
Varitek

I should also add that we did not acquire a new reliever. This might just be the worst offseason I've seen from the team in a while. Darn, at this point we do not look playoff ready at all.

Drew did not struggle because he batted 5th, he struggled adjusting to a new league. Having him bat 5th is probably best since he's kind of cold right now...

How about:

2B- Pedroia [R]
1B- Youkilis [R]
DH- Ortiz [L] (You want the best player getting the most at bats right?
LF- Bay [R]
RF- Drew [L]
3B- Lowell [R]
SS- Lowrie [S]
C- Varitek [S]
CF- Ellsbury [L]

Ortiz owns the #3 spot. Period. Francona has said as much.

Assuming you're correct that it was all about adjusting that was difficult for JD, I think this is our best option at this point. No point in ignoring Bay's .961OPS batting cleanup, and the L-R splits are balanced. Again, though, I think #7-9 look like a bit of a black hole. I hope Ellsbury can regain his stroke and bat leadoff so we can lower Pedroia.

Whoa, it's the offseason already?? Who won the World Series?

But seriously, there is plenty of opportunity to add useful parts throughout August, assuming said parts pass through waivers successfully (and most players do).

My lineup prediction:

Pedroia
Youkilis
Papi
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Lowrie
Tek
Crillsbury

We did All jokes aside, we still weren't able to acquire a reliever. Is there anybody that may pass through waivers?

Is it a smaller sample than the list of pitchers Manny supposedly backed out against? Or does it only work in some situations?

Anyways, bat Bay 4th to split up the lefties.

Pedroia
Drew
Bay
Ortiz
Lowell
Youkilis
Varitek
Lowrie
Ellsbury

As for the above post concerning Ortiz and the 3 spot, he originally was put in the 4 hole and that was his preference, but he was more receptive to a move than Manny, so it was changed.

I think that's a very perceptive predition. It shows a lot less of the Kool Aid drinking cognitive dissonance that I see everywhere else around here. How else can people note the struggles Drew, a far better and more talented hitter who had played regularly on good teams, had changing leagues, while at the same time expecting Bay, who has always played on last place garbage in Pittsburgh and sees almost all of his stats declining slowly but regularly, to make us forget about Ramirez and be a bridge over a hole in the batting order bigger than the Grand Canyon.

I've got tickets to two games in Kansas City next week, about a dozen rows right behind Home Plate, so I'll let you know just how pathetically this reckless experiment is starting out.

Whoever said the team isn't playoff ready, although he or she is correct, is missing the point, because that question isn't very sure to come up in the first place, with the inevitable loss of offense and the uncured (except for kicking Hanson to the curb) problems in the Downs Syndrome middle relief corps.

I would expect Bay would hit between Ortiz and Drew, two LHd batters, replacing Manny at #4.

The middle of the lineup is deep, so it probably doesn't make much difference, except managers like to alternate R and L Hd hitters.

Drew had shoulder surgery that zapped his power. That's why their are clauses in his contract.

I agree the Sox will probably be very proactive in the waiver period. If Buchholz doesn't step up we could nab a starter, or more likely, someone like Mahay will very likely make it through due to his 2009 salary. I don't think we are done.

I don't want Drew and Ortiz back-to-back.

Putting Bay between them keeps teams from being able to use a LOOGY against the both of them. I think the idea of Drew at 2nd and Ortiz 4th is interesting, but I don't think they're going to tke Papi out of his comfort zone in the 3 hole...plus taking away his protection takes away power(see August/September 2006)...you want Bay behind him so they don't pitch around him(even with a good hitter like Lowell 5th.)

I'd go something like this:

Pedroia
Youk
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Lowrie/Lugo
Tek/Cash
Ellsbury/Crisp

Ellsbury
Pedrioa
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Youk
Lowrie/Lugo
Tek

I'm with PantB on the LH splits.

If the middle of the lineup is Papi/Bay/Drew they will get destroyed by LHP, especially late against a tough LOOGY.

2008 vs LHP
Papi .204 .268 .388 .656 56AB
Bay .190 .333 .345 .679 84AB
Drew .279 .423 .525 .948 61AB

per McAdam, Bay will hit fifth:



http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/SoxBlo...mcadam-man.html

EDIT: So...

Pedroia
Youk
Ortiz
Drew
Bay
Lowell
etc...

It seems like with Manny gone it could be the time to make Ortiz the cleanup man. I think Youk would be a fine #3 hitter.

Pedroia
Drew
Youk
Ortiz
Lowell
Bay
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

I think that is the optimal lineup.

Not at .216 with RISP

I agree BoSockBoy. I was gonna post this lineup until I saw that you beat me to it. Drew gets on base well, Youk has hit well in the 3-spot before, and when Ellsbury gets on base he will get the ball rolling for the top of the order. I think Ortiz will be able to move to hit cleanup pretty easily.

Ok, fine, I'll be the one to do it.

Pedroia
Youkilis
Drew
Bay
Ortiz
Lowell
Varitek
Lowrie
Ellsbury


I know, I know...they won't move Ortiz back to the five hole. But this way, you'd get some protection for Bay to get him going a little bit, and move Drew up to the three spot where he's been a better hitter.

Batting Bay fifth doesn't make a lot of sense.

I dont get some of these lineups. It seems like the things we know for certain are:

1-Pedroia
2-Youk
3-Ortiz
4-
5-Bay
6-
7-
8-
9-

Ortiz will not be moved from the three spot, guaranteed. We have been told that Bay will hit fifth. And I dont think theyll mess with the top of the order. I supposed we could see Drew at 2... but Id call it a longshot.

Why is that guaranteed? He prefers hitting 4th but moved because so does Manny. Why is it so inconceivable that he is put there?

Just my opinion, but I do think it is a lock. He's our best hitter, after all, and nothing has happened that should change the top 3 of the lineup. Why would Tito shake everything up? I say Drew slides up to cleanup, Bay goes in the 5 and everything else stays the same.

EDIT: Isnt the fact he likes it and has been batting there for years enough? Why would Bay change this?

It's not the addition of Bay that would change it, it's the absence of Manny. I'm not saying he'll move for sure, but I'm sure he will be given the option, or at the very least asked for his opinion. Maybe he's gotten used to hitting third to the point where he wants to stay there, but originally he wanted to hit fourth. I'm just saying that I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Plus, going Pedroia-Drew-Bay-Ortiz-Lowell-Youkilis-Varitek-Lowrie-Ellsbury is about as good a L/R alternation as you can get, not to mention both Drew and Bay get great protection.

Obviously this won't happen at the VERY least right away, and maybe never, but I'd love to see it.

I actually like Wakefield 49s batting order. That would be totally sweet, but it probably ain't gonna happen.

1. 2B - Perdroia
2. 1B - Youk
3. DH - Ortiz
4. LF - Bay
5. RF - JD Drew
6. 3B - Lowell
7. SS - Lowrie
8. C - Tek
9. CF - Jacoby

This line should produce runs but im more worried about our 4th and 5th pitching rotation as it seems like a month since we got a win from here.
Plus out middle relief has not gotten better over the dead line.
Really need Timlin, Masterson, Oki and The Real Manny to start pitching some now run mid relief.

Welcome to the board, Aus. Your proposed line-up looks like the ticket, at least to start. I don't at all buy the "avoid the comparisons" argument for keeping Bay out of the 4 hole. The comparisons will be there regardless. Tito doesn't like shuffling anyway, so he won't do it until forced. We ain't there yet.

I am assuming that someone will come up from the PawSox to fill Hansen's slot. Hope it is Zink, as he would add an interesting wrinkle.

2B Pedroia
1B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
3B Lowell
LF Bay
RF Drew
SS Lowrie
C Tek
CF Ellsbury

IMO, Tito won't put Bay in the 4-hole to avoid any comparisons to Manny. Lowell has proven that he can handle it. With this lineup, it avoids bunching the lefties together. Of course, this will all change should Jacoby get hot again, which will lead to something like this:

CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
DH Ortiz
3B Lowell
LF Bay
RF Drew
1B Youkilis
SS Lowrie
C Tek

Ideally, I would like to see:

CF Ellsbury
2B Pedroia
1B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
LF Bay
RF Drew
3B Lowell
SS Lowrie
C Tek

Cheers mate.

I don't get to hear much about the Pawsox except from the website which could do with an upgrade IMO, so hopefully Zink can fill a hole.

They have the angels and Yanks game on here tomorrow as my only baseball its on live 5am Saturday morning so I won't get up to watch the yanks lose but hopeful to catch the Sox game on the Net somewhere. If only they could some how give me NESN in Aus....

I'm going to go outside the box a little bit here. All that we really know is that Bay is hitting 5th, and Ortiz is likely to still hit 3rd. Thus, my proposed lineup for now is as follows:

1 - Pedroia
2 - Drew
3 - Ortiz
4 - Youk
5 - Bay
6 - Lowell
7 - Lowrie
8 - Varitek
9 - Ellsbury

After Ellsbury makes some adjustments, Pedroia cools off a bit, and Bay settles in, I'd look at this lineup for September

1 - Ellsbury
2 - Pedroia
3 - Ortiz
4 - Bay
5 - Drew
6 - Youk
7 - Lowell
8 - Varitek
9 - Lowrie

I'd really like to see Drew's high OBP hitting higher in the order, and Youk is quite capable of being a 3/4/5 hitter with his line from this season.

Is JayRay strong enough to protect Papi if he follows him in the lineup? I can see a lot of Ortiz walks to get to the (at least perceived) weak new guy. Even if his weaknesses are merely based on adjusting, they will pitch to get to him.

What's his number gonna be?

Well I was going to go with:
1. Bugs Bunny
2. Bugs Bunny
3. Bugs Bunny
4. Bugs Bunny
5. Bugs Bunny
6. Bugs Bunny
7. Bugs Bunny
8. Bugs Bunny
9. Bugs Bunny

But for me:
1 - Ellsbury
2 - Pedroia
3 - Drew
4 - Ortiz
5 - Bay
6 - Youk
7 - Lowell
8 - Varitek
9 - Lowrie

Batting Gay fourth will be flushing Pedroia's hits and Papi's walks down the toilet game after game because in addition to Gay's high strikeout percentage, he's just a shade over the Mendoza line with RISP (not to mention his prowress with left handed pitchers). Good work Theo, now lets see if Tito can make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Yeah, let's bench GayBay(hahahaha - wow, that rhymes!), he's teh suck.
Theo's two WS rings: flukes...I would have traded Manny for Pujols and prospects.
Bay is nothing more than an AAA player, and he's canadian so he's an eh eh eh player, eh?

(I hate you ForbesK)

But seriously, I recall reading that Bay has an OPS of .961 batting cleanup?

1 - Pedroia
2 - Youkilis
3 - Ortiz
4 - Lowell
5 - Bay
6 - Drew
7 - Lowrie
8 - Varitek
9 - Ellsbury

I could see Youk getting time in the 4 hole as well so...

1 - Pedroia
2 - Drew
3 - Ortiz
4 - Youkilis
5 - Bay
6 - Lowell
7 - Lowrie
8 - Varitek
9 - Ellsbury

If I were Tito...

1. Pedroia
2. Drew
3. Ortiz
4. Youkilis
5. Lowell
6. Bay
7. Lowrie
8. Varitek
9. Ellsbury

You get very solid bats at the beginning of the lineup and a potential good one in the 9th spot. I also like Youk sandwiched between Papi and Lowell at cleanup.

His number was 38 in Pitts, but has apparently changed to 39 since yesterday. I guess Schilling didn't take too kindly to folks trying to take his old number.



Edit: According to Boston.com, Curt Schilling would be willing to give up his number for a fee, which would go to his charity organization "Curt's Pitch". So maybe Bay will pay to keep his old number, or maybe he doesn't care about ALS.

Not right now, but if we can get Ellsbury hitting again, this is probably the optimal line-up.

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Youkilis
Drew
Bay
Lowell
Lowrie
Varitek

Until Ellsbury starts hitting....

Pedroia
Drew
Ortiz
Youkilis
Bay
Lowell
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

I agree with this lineup 100%. Good L/R alternation, separates Drew / Ortiz / Bay from each other preventing use of a LOOGY (Bay's splits against lefties, yeah I know SSS but this lineup negates that anyways), and I want the best hitters on the team to be getting the most ABs. Pedroia, Drew, and Youk have been mashing, Youk should slot in nicely at #3. Papi's been a cleanup hitter before so I don't see the big deal. The only thing about this lineup I don't like is the f*#%ing black hole bottom 1/3. If I could make one change I'd bat Varitek 9th, but I think we all know that ain't happening.

Jason Bay now has more HRs than any Red Sox... he's our second best hitter. He can "protect" anyone.