[BigSlick]

I'm against all of them, and I don't think any will get in.

At the same time I don't know how the HoF can basically ignore a 10-15 year stretch of baseball and disqualify almost everyone from that time period. It's a bad situation that will never go away and I certainly don't know the answer on how to fix it.

[coloradojack]

That guy that died yesterday. He should get in.

[Hail Cesar]

I think it depends on whether Clemens was using during his years with the Red Sox. If he was, then maybe he shouldn't get in. If he wasn't, then he might have good enough numbers to get in on that stint alone.

Same thing goes with Bonds. If we knew when he started using, it makes it easier to determine how much it really helped him.

I'm torn, but I don't think that all players during the Steriod Era should be excluded just because there might be a suspicion of using drugs. I'm sure there were players who didn't use drugs during that time and performed at a Hall of Fame level, but there is likely still suspicion behind their stats because if everyone else was using, then they must have been using too.

[BigSlick]

It may be circumstantial evidence, but this isn't a court of law... If you look at the back of either Bonds' or Clemens' baseball card it is pretty easy to determine when they started using.

[Manny's PS2]

Both Bonds and Clemens are worthy, regardless of what kind of drugs they were ingesting. I could care less about the others though, and I wouldn't shed a tear if none of them got in, unless I was using tears for lubrication.

[Mike LansWho]

I don't see why Piazza doesn't get in. I don't recall his name being attached with steroids. He's among the best offensive Catchers of all time.

[Mike LansWho]

Also, you could make argument that Bonds and Clemens are worthy based on what they accomplished before their steroid use began. It is widely believed that Bonds started after the McGwire/Sosa hype of 1998 and Clemens is believed to have started when he left for Toronto in 1997. Up to those points Bonds had already won 3 MVP's, multiple All-Star appearances and Gold Gloves to go along with nearly 400 HR's while Clemens had already won 3 Cy Young Awards, 1 MVP, multiple All-Star games to go along with nearly 200 Wins and 2500+ strike outs.

[MrNewEngland]

I don't know how anyone could not vote Bonds in. He's the best baseball player in MLB history.

[Hail Cesar]

Bonds really is an interesting case because even when he was on the juice, the guy had ridiculous hand-eye coordination. Sure, some of the balls Bonds mashed while on the juice might not have left the ballpark if he was just a normal human, but there's a case to be made that maybe those hits would still have been fair balls. I don't know. I'm just a simple caveman lawyer.

[Mike LansWho]

Hail Cesar, on 28 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Bonds really is an interesting case because even when he was on the juice, the guy had ridiculous hand-eye coordination. Sure, some of the balls Bonds mashed while on the juice might not have left the ballpark if he was just a normal human, but there's a case to be made that maybe those hits would still have been fair balls. I don't know. I'm just a simple caveman lawyer.

That's the thing about Bonds. Before he started juicing (see my last post for reference) we was already on the fast track to the Hall of Fame. He was well on his way to be the first and only member of the 500/500 club. He really didn't need the steroids to be a Hall of Famer. He needed the steroids to be among the absolute greatest of all time.

[Mike LansWho]

By the way, if this thread was titled "In AND Out" I would select Hail Cesar's mom.

[BigSlick]

Mike LansWho, on 28 November 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

By the way, if this thread was titled "In AND Out" I would select Hail Cesar's mom.

Thank You!!!!

After all of the baseball related posts today I was starting to worry that the quality of the board was on the rise.

[Mike LansWho]

BigSlick, on 28 November 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Thank You!!!!

After all of the baseball related posts today I was starting to worry that the quality of the board was on the rise.

You Bimbo bakery guys always talking about things rising.

[Hail Cesar]

Mike LansWho, on 28 November 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

You Bimbo bakery guys always talking about things rising.

Like dough. Dough rises. Yeah! I'm so funny!

[Mike LansWho]

Hail Cesar, on 28 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Like dough. Dough rises. Yeah! I'm so funny!

http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/24281000/ngbbs507f51e8d325b.jpg

[Hail Cesar]

Mike LansWho, on 28 November 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

snippity snip snip sheroo

Is it? Is it really?

[Manny's PS2]

Bonds and Clemens are no brainers, despite the size of their enormous heads. Both should get in, unless the asshole sportswriters are going to make some kind of a ridiculous gesture...Time to move on from the roids era.

[JMDurron]

Piazza is absolutely going to get in (I actually forgot to select him for Part II, oops), but I think definitely Bonds and probably Clemens should be in. Baseball has always treated cheating to try to win as a better option than gambling (risking insincere attempts to win), and therefore neither of them should be in the Pete Rose category. If being a good, do-it-by-the-rules human being was the criteria for entering the HoF, the building would be extremely tiny and empty. I would vote for Bonds and Piazza, and maybe Clemens. I'm still not quite rational about Clemens, although I intellectually admit that he should be in the HoF.

[MrNewEngland]

JMDurron, on 29 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Piazza is absolutely going to get in (I actually forgot to select him for Part II, oops), but I think definitely Bonds and probably Clemens should be in. Baseball has always treated cheating to try to win as a better option than gambling (risking insincere attempts to win), and therefore neither of them should be in the Pete Rose category. If being a good, do-it-by-the-rules human being was the criteria for entering the HoF, the building would be extremely tiny and empty. I would vote for Bonds and Piazza, and maybe Clemens. I'm still not quite rational about Clemens, although I intellectually admit that he should be in the HoF.

You know... this is true. Granted there has never been a result as huge as the streoid era, but there really always has been cheating in baseball. The 1919 White Sox, that stadium that actually moved the bleachers back & forth between half innings (depending on which team is up), trying to read what pitch the catcher is calling, spitballs (vasilene)... heck "stealing" is just part of the game.

[BigSlick]

MrNewEngland, on 29 November 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

that stadium that actually moved the bleachers back & forth between half innings (depending on which team is up)

Is this real, and if so how have I never heard of it?