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The A-Rod files

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#1 Sox Fan in Pensacola

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 08:37 AM

So what is everyone's opinion on this. I know some want to keep Nomar as a lifer, but IMHO, if we can get A-Rod, arguably one of the best players of this century already and young enough to improve, we have to jump at it.

I would even sweeten the pot with Hanley Ramirez and see if we could get a Kevin Mench or something, I may even just give them both Ramirez's for A-Rod to get the deal done. Then trade Nomar for something - the rumored Glaus, Washburn deal? Or try to get Eckstein in it to play 2B?

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 08:40 AM

I'd love to see Nomar finish his career with the Sox - but it's all about the money, in my opinion.

I would like to see the Sox brass approach Nomar one more time in the offseason and exchange money ideas. If he honestly wants to stay in Boston (which can be argued), maybe he will take a modest upgrade from 11mil.

If not, Sox will make arrangments to have a deal in place for A-rod and then deal Nomar to Anaheim.

#3 Sox Fan in Pensacola

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 08:47 AM

Yeah, I would not like to be in Theo's position of having to say "Well Nomar, we can't look at Jeter or A-Rod's contracts, e have to look at today's market and we can't give you anything more than 12 million.

Yet, I wouldn't want to see Nomar get a Jeter type contract either....

#4 mac0822


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 09:40 AM

I'd love to see Nomar around for the long haul, but if he prefers to leave after this season, I think he should be traded. Getting ARod would be difficult. Obvioulsy Ramirez would have to go in that trade & why would Texas trade a stud SS for a DH?

#5 Thisistheyear


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:29 AM

They have to re-sign Nomar, and I want it done by Christmas.

I don't like ARod.
I don't want ARod.

So what if he's better? He costs twice as much. Is he twice as good? Did he knock in 210 RBI last year? Did he hit .610?

I realize these aren't reasonable arguments, but if Nomar wants to stay, he should stay.

#6 hytem


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:36 AM

Nomar isn't going anywhere unless Manny is dealt for ARod.

The deal works because both Texas and Boston save money.

And Nomar gets to go to the West Coast.
Who wouldn't want to live in San Diego.

Hopefully, this deal can be made soon while the Schilling momentum
is high. The Foulke signing as well.

My best to the Royal Rooters, and their exalted place in Red Sox History.

Remember 1918.

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:45 AM

Who wouldn't want to live in San Diego.

San Diego is beautiful, went there for work, and it was such a great place.

Anyhow, back to the AROD question .... if we can lose Manny and bring back AROD then I am all for it, even if we then have to trade Nomar because I think Nomar will bring us back some prettty good pitching/prospects in a trade.


Sounds good to me!

#8 MargoAdamsLoveChild


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:54 AM

Can you imagine the detonation 206.4 miles south if the Sox trade Manny to get A-Rod, sign Foulke, and keep Nomar on top of signing Schilling? That would be perhaps the greatest WFAN listening in the history of the station!

Anyway, why can't the Sox do the A-Rod for Manny deal with some prospects thrown in if necessary (remember, the Rangers are saving about $90M over the life of the contract if they dump A-Rod) and still keep Nomar? Despite his sometimes pissy attitude with the media, I've never heard anything but rumor and innuendo that he wants to be on the West Coast. I thnk that's a pantload ... there's nobody more "East Coast" in his approach than Nomar. He is smashmouth baseball personifed. I think he wants to stay. And I think he'd make the move to second if he had to.

That being said, when A-Rod was rumored to the Yankees in 2001, he made it clear he'd be willing to move to third for Jeter. I mean, Nomar isn't on the artificially inflated pedestal that Jeter is (he's just a better player, offensively and defensively), but why wouldn't A-Rod consider moving to third base? We move Mueller to second (thereby saving money because we don't need a second baseman) and we use the second base money to get a good defensive left fielder.

This has been thrown around over at SoSH, but imagine A-Rod to Nomar to who cares on a 6-4-3 double play? Just thinking about it makes me unnaturally aroused. :wub:

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:26 PM

I don't see any feasable way that the sox will keep both A-Rod and Nomar. It definitely is nice to think about, but they simply would have a very tough time affording them both. Surely Johnny Damon would have to go in that kind of scenario, and since they would trade Manny in order to get Rodriguez, there are two holes in the outfield that would need to be filled.

Personally, I don't think that Nomar will sign any sort of contract extension with the Sox. He may claim time and time again how much he loves Boston, per the rumors regarding what his sentiment at the wedding was, but he was made for the So-Cal lifestyle. I suppose getting A-Rod would be the best thing to replace him.

However on the other hand, the last two teams to win World Series were Anaheim and Florida, two teams without major superstar presence. They were built on solid all-around players, with a youth focus. While obviously, like any Red Sox fan, I'm extatic at the acquisition of Schilling and the prospect of A-Rod, but I think the brass should look to build the team all around with speed and defense. Just my .02.

#10 Thisistheyear


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:37 PM

Speed and defense?

OK, put everyone on waivers. We're starting over.

I would love to have Nomar and ARod, but I don't see either of the premier shortstops in MLB moving their position.

Nah guhn daht.

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:41 PM

Obviously starting over isn't going to happen, but I really think that in order for a team to win (especially in the playoffs) they must learn how to produce runs. Getting rid of Manny would be a good way to help this out, he killed far too many potential rallys last season. Also would allow for a defensive upgrade.

I would much rather have A-Rod here than no A-Rod. I just don't think it's very likely that A-Rod and Nomar will play on any team together other than the All-Star team.

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:55 PM

I dont think that moving positions would be a factor. If they wanted to win a championship that badly they should want to do anything to help the club achieve that goal. Mone money money is the big issue here. If the red sox brass really want A-Rod then Manny has to go. His and A-rods contract alone would equal almost a minnesota twins type clubs payroll (not exactly sure what there payroll is just using it as an example) if both of them were to stay in Boston. That alone would complicate things in signing the free agents coming up next year like varitek and others and that would start to disassemble the core thta we have come to know as the red sox. If Nomar really wants out or is not going to resign b/c he wants to go to the West Coast then trade him while you still can get something for him dont go away empty handed. Get rid of manny and get A-rod you will get manny type numbers from his bat and a good defensive shortstop now you just need a left fielder with nomar type hitting numbers and the other thing you get in A-rod instead of manny is that you get a player who RUNS TO FIRST.

#13 The Ghost of Todd Jones

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 01:53 PM

Assuming that getting A-Rod would mean losing Manny AND Nomar, I would do it in a heartbeat.

A-Rod is the reigning AL MVP and Gold Glove winner, not to mention the best SS in the game. Of course RSN has an emotional tie to Nomar, but there is no emotional tie I wouldn't break for 2004 to be the year.

Before trading A-Rod/pitcher(Williamson or Kim?) for Manny/Nomar:
Big hole at 2B

Huge hole in LF
Big hole at 2B
about 10 mil to play with

Assuming A-Rod and Manny are about similiar offensively, that means we would need to put Nomar's bat in LF. I think Shannon Stewart would be a great option out there. Get Johnny Damon and his inconsistencies out of the leadoff spot and put Stewart there. Damon drops to 9 but we keep his defense and speed and we'll still have the best #9 hitter in the league. Another possibility is JD Drew if he's non-tendered. His injuries scare me but when healthy, he would be another monster in the lineup.

If we could also manage to get a 2B either the Manny or Nomar deal, that would be a big plus. If Nomar went to the Angels, I'd love to see Adam Kennedy at 2B.

If this doesn't happen, we still have Nomar and Manny to create offense for Curt Schilling, so no big loss if it doesn't happen

#14 Cambridge


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 02:27 PM

"I may even just give them both Ramirez's for A-Rod to get the deal done."

I don't agree CT. While it's possible that Hanley will go the way of other failed prospects, he's still one of our potential gems. We're just now trying to emerge from what has been a poorly regarded minor league system, and we need to keep some of these guys. I'd certainly be willing to trade him in the right deal, but probably not in a "pot sweetener" situation like this.

#15 MiddletownYazMan


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:00 PM

I would not be at all surprised if this deal goes through before we see the fiorst dawn of 2004. We are hearing from too many sources that this deal is still possible. The main stickler seems to be Hicks and if Hart convinces him that this is the best move as far as saving $$ goes than maybe it will drop. Nomar is a great player but the upside to ARod given his age and his career trajectory is a lot higher than Nomar's. There are two ways to look at nomar a) his 3 or 4 protracted slumps were anomalies related to personal issues or B) he is in a post surgery decline that indicates he will not perform at the same level he did before the tendon split. I believe in b but my heart wants me to believe in a. I would make this trade if the opportunity to make it were presented.

#16 NJSoxFan



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Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:22 PM

Everyone loves Nomar, but he is no where near the player AROD is.

I think if you EVER have a chance at getting a player of this calibur, you do it. Whatever it takes.

There are not many opportunities like this. And when there are, it is usually at the tail end of a players career.

AROD is young, and probably the best player in MLB, certainly top 3.

#17 OilCan Jolmy

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:59 PM

If Nomar's going to get 17 mil a year, take A-Rod at 25.

This is a no-brainer.

Here's where we are folks:

1) Nomar in the last year of his contract.

2) Manny Ramirez albatross and headcase issue. Already put on waivers.

3) A-Rod's frustration with Texas, his desire to play in Boston (or New York).

Add that up, you have a near guarantee this will occur. A-Rod in Boston, Manny in Texas (for Hargrove), Nomar in Anaheim for K-Rod and prospects.

How could this not happen?

#18 Lou Duffys Cliff

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 05:42 PM

If the ARod-Manny trade does happen I for one hope that Nomar stays and if that is the case my preference would be to have Nomar stay at SS and have ARod play 3B. The rational for this is that even though ARod is the better SS, I think he would have an easier transition to 3B for the sole reason that Nomar tends to make throws better when he is on the move and going to his right as opposed to when he is standing flat footed or going to his left. But, the concession that Nomar would have to make to stay at SS is that he would have to take a 4/5 year deal at somewhere in the 13-15 mil range.

#19 amessier


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Posted 01 December 2003 - 05:52 PM

There are at least a couple reasons why it wouldn't happen: 1. Nomar's not going to get $17M/yr. - nobody is in 2004 - Schilling just set the new (revalued) standard; 2. Red Sox management understands that adding A-Rod while subtracting Nomar and Manny and still needing a top-flight 2nd baseman would create both productivity problems and defensive issues that aren't easily addressed by available free agents or trades.

Of course it's possible (Theo has shown himself to be shrewd and hard-working) that some number of moves, signings and karma could make the '04 Sox the team for the ages without Garciaparra and Ramirez, but I have my doubts. I think if A-Rod comes, it's Manny alone who moves on. Nomar stays, and remains the starting shortstop.

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 06:02 PM

If Manny for ARod can be made to be revenue neutral, and since the Sox are already committed to Nomar and Manny, why can't they keep 'em both at least for this season. Could be fun, could result in a WS win which might affect Nomar's salary demands (hmmmm...do I want to stay here and contend every year, or do I want to go to SoCal and just keep warm all the time...)

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