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Nick Adenhart killed
Car accident

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Jmorgan 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 03:54 PM

I heard the news early this morning and was blown away by the closeness, ( I live about 20 minutes away from Angel Stadium). I mean it's so surreal, I watched this guy pitch a 7 inning gem just hours before...I remember them saying during the telecast that he'd had only about 7 days of mlb service time. My eyes well up when I think of his hard work, dedication and love for a game that finally loved him back.

Rest in Peace, Nick.
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rominer 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 04:07 PM

View PostThe Mad Hatter, on Apr 9 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

Such a terribly sad story...

Not to continue hijacking the thread, but the ****tard that was driving should be charged with murder. A car moving 40 MPH or however fast it was going is quite the weapon. I don't see much of a difference between driving a car while intoxicated and carrying around a gun shooting people. Not only are you endangering yourself when driving drunk, you are a risk to all of the innocent people on the road.


If I go out in my back yard to shoot target practice, and a stray bullet flies into my neighbor's yard and kills them, should I be charged with murder?

The driver was clearly not only reckless in getting behind the wheel in the first place (a mistake that is relatively easy to make), but also extremely reckless in the way he chose to drove (a mistake that does require a certain degree of intent I'm sorry, but short of being passed out there's no level of drunkenness that makes the distinction between red light and green light a difficult one to make). So, yes, he should absolutely be penalized to the full extent of the law. But there's a reason that the full extent of the law in these cases isn't typically "murder."

The driver was a moron. I have no sympathy for him. But stupidity and murder are not the same thing.
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Mike LansWho 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 05:44 PM

View Postrominer, on Apr 9 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

If I go out in my back yard to shoot target practice, and a stray bullet flies into my neighbor's yard and kills them, should I be charged with murder?


Sorry to hijack with the penalty argument, but your scenario does not quite fit this tragedy. It should read like this:

You shoot target practice in your backyard, a stray bullet flies into your neighbor's yard but does not hit or kill anyone. The cops come and take your gun away telling you to never shoot target practice in your backyard again because next time you are likely to kill someone. Fast-forward to some time later. You shoot target practice in your backyard again. This time stray bullets fly into your neighbor's yard and kills three of them.

That's not murder. It's triple murder.

Either way, this is an incredibly tragic story, regardless of who was involved.
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rominer 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:04 PM

Right. Forgot the suspended license part. Still not sure it's murder. His intent wasn't to kill. He was just reckless and irresponsible on multiple levels.

Again, don't have a lot of sympathy for the driver, whatever he gets. I just see a distinction between this and murder.
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Jmorgan 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:32 PM

I'm sick of the bullshit lack of ownership in America.

I mean you have a guy with a SUSPENDED License with at least one prior DUI conviction and we're discussing whether the act of killing another human being through careless and reckless behavior is murder just because it may have not been his intent. WTF?!? If that was my son lying on the grass under the yellow sheet, you bet your ass it would be murder and if I was stupid enough to be in Gallo's shoes right now; I'd accept the fact that I destroyed lives through my own reckless action and accept that I murdered all three of them.
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Locklandworth 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:33 PM

View Postrominer, on Apr 9 2009, 05:07 PM, said:

If I go out in my back yard to shoot target practice, and a stray bullet flies into my neighbor's yard and kills them, should I be charged with murder?


Yes, it's murder. Anyone that grew up with firearms in a responsible firearm owning family knows that if you're holding a loaded weapon and that weapon kills another person, it's murder, accident or not. This is a non-negotiable distinction. Only irresponsible cowards would argue that it's not murder.

I really like and respect you Rominer, but this is a hard line of basic gun safety, it's murder, every time, PERIOD.

I realize the laws of the land for the most part don't line up with this thinking, but that doesn't make it right, in fact it's a tragedy.

ON TOPIC EDIT: This is MURDER too.

This post has been edited by Locklandworth: 09 April 2009 - 06:41 PM

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rominer 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 07:10 PM

View PostLocklandworth, on Apr 9 2009, 03:33 PM, said:

I really like and respect you Rominer, but this is a hard line of basic gun safety, it's murder, every time, PERIOD.


I didn't know that this was the thinking among gun owners. I don't own a gun. I've never owned a gun, don't intend to ever own a gun, and really don't like guns. The analogy was just "stupid, reckless act with foreseeable negative consequences."

Which, by whatever method, just strikes me as different from malicious intent.

It's an insignificant distinction given the ultimate result of the actions. I get that. I don't disagree with that. I don't in any way intend to absolve the driver of his responsibility in this. But I always thought that, in legal terms, intent was relevant. Morally, to my way of thinking at least, intent is relevant. "Killer" and "murderer" are not the same thing. This guy was clearly a killer. Most people here seem to think that he's also a murderer. I don't.

The incident is no less tragic either way. Sorry to belabor the point. I'll leave it alone now.
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czar 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 08:41 PM

View PostManny's ps2, on Apr 9 2009, 03:16 PM, said:

but it [DUIs] happens


(Manny's; this is nothing personal, but it touches a nerve).

"It happens?" Please.

I'm so sick of the lack of accountability people attribute to DUI's. It's a stupid, selfish decision. Plain and simple. I've been known to partake in the occasional (wait, Tuesday through Monday isn't occasional?) night of putting down a few beverages-- but in no instance have I ever considered (or left myself the opportunity) to pick up my keys and try to take my 2,000 lb missile to the streets. There's a very clear line between laughing "haha, I got trashed and hooked up with that annoying girl from tri-delt last night," and "haha, I got drunk and got in my car and almost totaled it sixteen times."

I've you've been caught once; you need more than a f*cking slap on the hand. If you've been caught twice; that's it. This isn't some bull**** fifteen strikes policy. A few months ago a 24 year old girl who was 2 weeks away from getting married was killed because some woman who had SIX prior DUI convictions got plastered and drove on the wrong side of I-74. I'm sorry. Prior convictions show me that you lack rational judgment and respect for others. Damned if you're going to be an idiot, but if that stupidity threatens my life than I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for you and "people make mistakes." We're a race that's smart enough to put a man on the f***ing moon, but not smart enough to go "hmmm, maybe pounding six beers and hopping in my car at 3 AM is a bad decision?"

Honestly, if I ever got behind the wheel drunk and killed someone; knowing that my absolute disregard for the safety of a common man; I'd hope they gave me the death penalty, because I don't think I could live with the guilt.

This post has been edited by czar: 09 April 2009 - 08:43 PM

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Malzone64 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 09:27 PM

View PostThe Mad Hatter, on Apr 9 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

Such a terribly sad story...

Not to continue hijacking the thread, but the ****tard that was driving should be charged with murder. A car moving 40 MPH or however fast it was going is quite the weapon. I don't see much of a difference between driving a car while intoxicated and carrying around a gun shooting people. Not only are you endangering yourself when driving drunk, you are a risk to all of the innocent people on the road.
I saw pictures of the victim's Mitsubishi, and the driver's van on TV, and the damage might imply a faster speed than 40 mph. Terrible shame. I've known parents that lost a child and they, the parents, were never the same.
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Renton 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 09:51 PM

Its like RSF2 thinks of the dumbest, most inappropriate thing he could say in any situation -- and then says something even stupider than that. I would pay to see TM kick his ass (i'd like to give MPS2 the benefit of the doubt that he wasnt trying to be a prick).

So sad to see something like this happen. I dont know about the rest of you, but I feel like I know these guys just from watching them play. Obviously hadn't seen much of Adenhart, but I felt pretty bad when I found out about Darryl Kile. Not like what I feel matters when it comes to something like this.

And yeah, it would be great to see him charged with murder 3 or something like that -- even if it means the definition of murder needs to be changed.

This post has been edited by Renton: 09 April 2009 - 09:53 PM

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rominer 

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Posted 09 April 2009 - 11:20 PM

View PostRenton, on Apr 9 2009, 06:51 PM, said:

Its like RSF2 thinks of the dumbest, most inappropriate thing he could say in any situation -- and then says something even stupider than that. I would pay to see TM kick his ass (i'd like to give MPS2 the benefit of the doubt that he wasnt trying to be a prick).


I know that RSF2 and the English language are like water and oil, but I really think what he was trying to say wasn't that what makes this such a tragedy is that Adenhart was a prospect and not just some AAAA bum. He was saying it's sad that the only reason this will get any attention is because Adenhart was a prospect and not just some AAAA bum.

And that's true. If it was just an unheralded minor leaguer, it might have been a 3 paragraph AP story with no picture. And if it was all a bunch of nobodies in the crash, it would have made the evening news here if it happened between 10:30 and 11pm and they could have a camera truck on the scene to cover the "breaking news." But otherwise, it wouldn't even make the news except on a slow news night. Not here in L.A.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 12:31 AM

View PostManny's ps2, on Apr 9 2009, 04:16 PM, said:

It is awful, but life in prison for a really bad decision won't bring the kid back. Yes, the guy who did it deserves punishment, but I can't say I've never driven drunk - I've just never hurt anyone in the process. I doubt the guy got into his car and said "I'm going to blow through a traffic light and smash into someone" He got in his car, already impaired by alcohol and made a really bad choice. Not excusing, in any way, what the guy did - it was stupid and he will and should pay for his stupidity.

I haven't DUI'd in at least a few years, but it happens, and I bet lots of you spewing vitriol have done it (to some degree) yourselves.


On LA accidents: They don't report traffic deaths on the news in LA and refer to serious accidents (that cause traffic jams) as "Carbecues"... Oh how I don't miss LA.


The point is that it has happened often enough that anyone who drinks and drives knows they risking the lives of others.

Lock the SOB up for the rest of his life. And while they're at it, make all DUI's punishable by at least 5 years in prison. That will put an end to drunk driving. The only difference between this a-hole and someone else who drives drunk and doesn't kill someone is luck.

MPS2, I don't mean to single you out. I know many here and everywhere have done it.

This post has been edited by BigSlick: 10 April 2009 - 06:32 AM

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 07:07 AM

View Postrominer, on Apr 10 2009, 12:20 AM, said:

And that's true. If it was just an unheralded minor leaguer, it might have been a 3 paragraph AP story with no picture. And if it was all a bunch of nobodies in the crash, it would have made the evening news here if it happened between 10:30 and 11pm and they could have a camera truck on the scene to cover the "breaking news." But otherwise, it wouldn't even make the news except on a slow news night. Not here in L.A.


Yes and to expand upon this line of thinking, I'd ask how much time any of us has spent lamenting the loss of the other two young lives in this same accident? How many even know the names of the other two victims? The female who was driving the car was only 20 years old, a college student and cheerleader at Cal State Fullerton. I'm sure none of us consider her death any less tragic. Her family and friends are obviously every bit as devastated as are Nick Adenhart's.

RSF2 points out, however, her death and that of Henry Pearson, aren't getting the same level of public attention nor shows of public mourning. While it is understandable that this might be the case, that doesn't make RSF2's point any less valid.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 07:47 AM

Here's a mother of six children in Rhode Island who got killed by a drunk driver on Tuesday. Maybe every car should have one of those breathalyzer ignition locks.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo200...Y.bb52d12b.html
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 08:35 AM

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Lock the SOB up for the rest of his life. And while they're at it, make all DUI's punishable by at least 5 years in prison. That will put an end to drunk driving. The only difference between this a-hole and someone else who drives drunk and doesn't kill someone is luck.

MPS2, I don't mean to single you out. I know many here and everywhere have done it.


This guy should be in prison for the rest of his life. Sorry, when you kill 3 people in an accident that was 110% your fault, and you don't even have a valid license [since his was suspended for multiple DUIs] then that is what you deserve.

However, stating that someone who gets a DUI should be imprisoned for 5 years is retarded. In some states, the limit is .08, others .10. I am sorry, but i have driven probably hundreds of times over those limits, and never once been in any accident, or been pulled over, etc. Go to a sports bar to watch a football game, or NCAA tourney game, have a 6 beers and get in a car, and unless you are on the heavy side, you will probably be about .10, or maybe slightly higher. There is a huge difference between drinking and then driving, which millions of people have been doing for years, and getting in your car hammered and driving even though you can barely retain consciousness.

I was pulled over once on the way home from a sports bar for doing 65 in a 50. Because I always speed. However, I had been drinking and had to go through the whole process on the side of the road before the cop would let me go. IF he actually made me blow a breathalizer, I probably would have hit .10, and lost my license. Now, if I did, its my fault, and while I would be annoyed that I lost my license and that I was nabbed on a time where I barely had anything to drink compared to my younger days where I had driven with less discretion, and had never been caught, I would have accepted that ... but, to have to go to prison for 5 years b/c you went to watch a playoff game with some friends and are completely fine to drive is just silly. And since I passed all 200 of the annoying cops tests, clearly I was ok to drive - but I still bet I would have blown a .10 or higher.

I realize some people dont drink, and there are probably others who have never drank and drove, but i would bet the overwhelming majority of the population has, and most are smart enough to do it sensibly. People need to stop with the automatic jail time for a DUI.

Not singling you out BS btw, but your last sentence could not be more wrong. There is a HUGE difference between this guy, and any guy/girl who gets multiple DUIs and still drives drunk, and the rest of the normal drink and drive folks. If I had ever gotten a DUI, I would never drive again even after sniffing some wine - its just not worth the hassle/fines/etc to ever have it happen again. Most people wouldnt .... This shithead didnt think anything of getting in a car hammered, and with no license after being nabbed several times over.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 08:59 AM

View PostNJSoxFan, on Apr 10 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

I realize some people dont drink, and there are probably others who have never drank and drove, but i would bet the overwhelming majority of the population has, and most are smart enough to do it sensibly. People need to stop with the automatic jail time for a DUI.

Not singling you out BS btw, but your last sentence could not be more wrong.


Then we can agree to disagree, because I think the part of your quote that I bolded could not be more wrong. There is no such thing as sensibly driving drunk.

Edit: Before arguing with me any further, I should point out that a guy on my Babe Ruth baseball team was run over and killed by a drunk driver when he was 17, so my opinion is unlikely to change.

This post has been edited by BigSlick: 10 April 2009 - 09:02 AM

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Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:19 AM

You dont have to change your opinion. In fact, I assumed as much - well not that a kid from your BR team, but that someone you knew was killed. I find that most people that are so adamant about NOT driving after drinking have been affected in some way. I have only known 1 person who was killed in a drinking/driving accident, and she was a girl who used to give me a ride home from some parties, not a close friend is what I am saying ... To me, there is a big difference between drinking and driving and driving drunk - despite what the signs say in my town [buzzed driving IS drunk driving]

Anyhow I am not out to change any opinions or to say drinking and driving is a good idea, it isnt, its just a necessary evil at time. Those who are responsible enough can handle it, IMO. I just thought the mandatory 5 year prison term was silly.

We do agree that the ****head who killed these people should rot in prison though.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:40 AM

View Postjackson, on Apr 10 2009, 08:47 AM, said:

Maybe every car should have one of those breathalyzer ignition locks.


I think that is an excellent idea. I'm not in favor of enforcing every law with this level of force, but this is a case where civil libertarians can eat me.

And NJSoxFan, I'm pretty sure it's .08 nationwide now.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:58 AM

Is it? I think it is still .10 here in NJ ... either way, a pretty low number. It is not too challenging to blow a .08. I know a lot of women, like my fiance, who probably would be limited to 1 drink while out. As in one hard alcohol drink or shot.

Using a bac calculator, if you weigh 175lbs and have 2 vodka drinks in an hour, you are over .08.

I am more of a beer drinker, so, that would give me about 10 beers in 5 hours before I hit the limit.
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Posted 10 April 2009 - 10:06 AM

On a weird, selfish note, this was the first time ever that I've had to drop a fantasy player due to death. That was a very strange feeling drop. Felt bad doing it.
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