[RedSoxAnni]

Peter Abraham, Globe - Youkilis questions Ellsbury's absence

Kevin Youkilis was asked what he thought about Jacoby Ellsbury rejoining the team tonight after spending five weeks in Arizona

"I don't know what's going on with Jacoby," he said. "I don't think any of us really know."

Was it strange for Ellsbury to be away from the team that long?

"Don't go down that road," Youkilis said. "One thing I can say is there's a lot of guys here that are hurt and supporting the team. We wish Jacoby was here supporting us, too."

Plenty of players feel the same way. Youkilis is one of the few with the courage to say it on the record.

[GreenMountainSoxFan]

RedSoxAnni, on 09 July 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

Peter Abraham, Globe - Youkilis questions Ellsbury's absence

Kevin Youkilis was asked what he thought about Jacoby Ellsbury rejoining the team tonight after spending five weeks in Arizona

"I don't know what's going on with Jacoby," he said. "I don't think any of us really know."

Was it strange for Ellsbury to be away from the team that long?

"Don't go down that road," Youkilis said. "One thing I can say is there's a lot of guys here that are hurt and supporting the team. We wish Jacoby was here supporting us, too."

Plenty of players feel the same way. Youkilis is one of the few with the courage to say it on the record.

Initial reaction is that Youkilis is throwing a teammate under the bus. Seems fairly inappropriate to rip on a current teammate to the media that way. Presumably he does not think that Ellsbury should be out in the field - Guy had broken ribs (twice?), which is a nasty injury to walk with, let alone run, dive, fling self against walls, etc. This means that he is upset because Ellsbury is not hanging out in the dugout each night. Is that really a big deal? Maybe it is. I don't know.

[BigSlick]

I think that the timing of the question was bad as well. Youk might have answered differently if he was asked the same question before they lost 4 in a row. He's an emotional guy who might have answered any question negatively at that point.

[jackson]

I call it leadership on Youk's part. He's just speaking for a lot of other players on the team.

[acr]

The words really aren't that bad. The media is just going to try to spin this into some giant clubhouse war.

[jackson]

acr, on 10 July 2010 - 11:26 AM, said:

The words really aren't that bad. The media is just going to try to spin this into some giant clubhouse war.

The media ask the question. Youk decides to answer it honestly. Words don't impact performance so it's all meaningless, unless Ellsbury takes them to heart and decides to push harder to come back sooner.

Yanks had a much worse situation with Pavano but bottom line was, he was hurt, too. Nobody wants to be hurt. It just happens.

[GreenMountainSoxFan]

jackson, on 10 July 2010 - 11:53 AM, said:

The media ask the question. Youk decides to answer it honestly. Words don't impact performance so it's all meaningless, unless Ellsbury takes them to heart and decides to push harder to come back sooner.

Yanks had a much worse situation with Pavano but bottom line was, he was hurt, too. Nobody wants to be hurt. It just happens.

Right, so why is Youk complaining that he is not there? The team apparently mis-diagnosed him twice. I think I would want to have a different group handle my rehab as well.

[yazgoesbacklooksupitsgone]

BigSlick, on 10 July 2010 - 07:15 AM, said:

I think that the timing of the question was bad as well. Youk might have answered differently if he was asked the same question before they lost 4 in a row. He's an emotional guy who might have answered any question negatively at that point.

I don't buy the 'I'm an emotional person' excuse in any context, be it sports, politics or the world at large. When someone sticks a microphone in your face, either choose your words carefully or shut the f*ck up. To do otherwise puts you on the wrong side of the dooshbag line.
I can understand now why Manny had to be separated from Youkilis in the dugout in '08.

I'm also not buying that Ellsbury, all banged up and unable to play, in any way can help this team by sitting in the dugout during games and clapping, which is what Youkilis is suggesting he do. Screw that. The best way he could 'support the team' is the way that he did: going to Arizona, getting healthy and then coming back when he is able to play.

[Wakefield 49]

yazgoesbacklooksupitsgone, on 11 July 2010 - 07:21 AM, said:

I don't buy the 'I'm an emotional person' excuse in any context, be it sports, politics or the world at large. When someone sticks a microphone in your face, either choose your words carefully or shut the f*ck up. To do otherwise puts you on the wrong side of the dooshbag line.
I can understand now why Manny had to be separated from Youkilis in the dugout in '08.

I'm also not buying that Ellsbury, all banged up and unable to play, in any way can help this team by sitting in the dugout during games and clapping, which is what Youkilis is suggesting he do. Screw that. The best way he could 'support the team' is the way that he did: going to Arizona, getting healthy and then coming back when he is able to play.

There is no reason he couldn't have done the same rehab work he did in Arizona anywhere else. It's not about "helping" the team, it's about "supporting" the team, and there is a big difference. Running off to the other side of the country when you don't have to gives the impression that you don't care much about the team. True or not, if that's the impression your teammates have of you, that's not a good thing. Youkilis was in no way out of line with his comments. As one of the leaders of this team, his opinion on matters such as this counts. As someone once said, if one guy says it, ten guys are thinking it.

[BigSlick]

Wakefield 49, on 11 July 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

There is no reason he couldn't have done the same rehab work he did in Arizona anywhere else. It's not about "helping" the team, it's about "supporting" the team, and there is a big difference.

But if you're Elsbury and the team screws up the diagnosis and you're unfairly questioned about whether you're really hurt or not, don't you want to be under someone else's care?

[Wakefield 49]

BigSlick, on 11 July 2010 - 08:54 PM, said:

But if you're Elsbury and the team screws up the diagnosis and you're unfairly questioned about whether you're really hurt or not, don't you want to be under someone else's care?

The diagnosis really didn't matter. As has been said many times, the treatment for a fractured rib is the exact same treatment for a bruised rib. So what if they called it a bruise? They could have called it whatever the hell they wanted as long as the treatment is the same. I also don't think people questioned that he was hurt, they questioned whether he could play through it. To me, as long as it isn't making it worse and/or causing enough of a downgrade to performance that someone else is a better option, you man up and play through it. Now, I'm no doctor so I don't know if he would be risking worse injury or not, and he didn't play enough to determine whether or not it was seriously affecting his performance. But to ask those questions is completely fair.

[Jack Hayden]

Wakefield 49, on 11 July 2010 - 10:25 PM, said:

To me, as long as it isn't making it worse and/or causing enough of a downgrade to performance that someone else is a better option, you man up and play through it. Now, I'm no doctor so I don't know if he would be risking worse injury or not, and he didn't play enough to determine whether or not it was seriously affecting his performance. But to ask those questions is completely fair.

I've never had broken ribs, but from what I understand, they likely make it incredibly painful to swing a bat. Now, if you're in intense pain every time you swing a bat, you're going to suffer a serious "downgrade of performance." Ellsbury can barely hit major league pitching at full strength. How can any reasonable person suggest that he can play through an injury like that?

[RedSoxAnni]

Wakefield 49, on 11 July 2010 - 10:25 PM, said:

The diagnosis really didn't matter. As has been said many times, the treatment for a fractured rib is the exact same treatment for a bruised rib. So what if they called it a bruise? They could have called it whatever the hell they wanted as long as the treatment is the same. I also don't think people questioned that he was hurt, they questioned whether he could play through it. To me, as long as it isn't making it worse and/or causing enough of a downgrade to performance that someone else is a better option, you man up and play through it. Now, I'm no doctor so I don't know if he would be risking worse injury or not, and he didn't play enough to determine whether or not it was seriously affecting his performance. But to ask those questions is completely fair.

This is my concern. Ellsbury's press conference with him reading from his notes smacks of someone trying to "prove" that he was not treated properly, but, as many have said, the treatment would not have changed if they had identified the fractures right away. It's not uncommon for fractures to be missed right after an injury, particularly if there is soft-tissue injury as well. That's why they'll often have you come back for more imaging after a few days.

[Wakefield 49]

Jack Hayden, on 12 July 2010 - 07:48 AM, said:

I've never had broken ribs, but from what I understand, they likely make it incredibly painful to swing a bat. Now, if you're in intense pain every time you swing a bat, you're going to suffer a serious "downgrade of performance." Ellsbury can barely hit major league pitching at full strength. How can any reasonable person suggest that he can play through an injury like that?

How did Curt Shilling pitch with that ankle injury? It's all about pain tolerance, which is what people were questioning about Ellsbury.

[Jack Hayden]

Wakefield 49, on 12 July 2010 - 06:09 PM, said:

How did Curt Shilling pitch with that ankle injury?

Mostly out of the bullpen, and terribly. 5.69 ERA and 93.1 IP. The guy's just got no guts and no "pain tolerance." What a chump.

[BigSlick]

Wakefield 49, on 12 July 2010 - 06:09 PM, said:

How did Curt Shilling pitch with that ankle injury? It's all about pain tolerance, which is what people were questioning about Ellsbury.

Really? Exactly how much pain was Schilling in compared to Ellsbury?

[chicowalker]

Wake: The problem with Youkilis's comments is that he made them through the media. I love Youk, but this was bs and it wasn't "leadership."

re pain, injuries are different. I have no idea how much pain Schilling's ankle problem caused, and what they were able to do to reduce that pain. I do know that when I was playing sports in college, an ankle sprain wasn't bad pain-wise once taped -- but there was the much more serious question if whether the ankle would support any kind of a cut. I also had rib injuries once, and it became clear I couldn't play at all once I did anything dynamic or, much worse, was hit on them.

I'm not sure how any of that translates to baseball, but I thought it had become common knowledge that certain rib, ab and oblique injuries can have terrible consequences for players.

[bosredsox5]

chicowalker, on 13 July 2010 - 10:17 AM, said:

Wake: The problem with Youkilis's comments is that he made them through the media. I love Youk, but this was bs and it wasn't "leadership."

re pain, injuries are different. I have no idea how much pain Schilling's ankle problem caused, and what they were able to do to reduce that pain. I do know that when I was playing sports in college, an ankle sprain wasn't bad pain-wise once taped -- but there was the much more serious question if whether the ankle would support any kind of a cut. I also had rib injuries once, and it became clear I couldn't play at all once I did anything dynamic or, much worse, was hit on them.

I'm not sure how any of that translates to baseball, but I thought it had become common knowledge that certain rib, ab and oblique injuries can have terrible consequences for players.

Exactly, I like Youk, but his comments were ill advised and hurt the team IMO. Ellsbury is an important part of the team, and breaking five ribs is an extremely serious injury.