Royal Rooters: Offseason Thread - 2010 - Royal Rooters

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Offseason Thread - 2010
Here's where we ramp up to next season

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Mike LansWho 

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:24 PM

View PostRed Sox Fan2, on 12 October 2010 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why not sign Dunn? Play him in LF when the Sox are at home and DH him against LHP and away games.


Let's pretend for a second that he isn't one of the worst defensive outfielders of all time (hyperbole, but not completely out of line) and the fact that he hasn't played any outfield since 2009. What do you do with the other full time outfielders on the team? Do they get rid of Ortiz? Martinez? Who DH's on those days when Dunn plays LF?

I'm not saying that the Red Sox won't or can't sign Dunn. If they do, I'd have to assume that they won't let him anywhere near the outfield.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:25 PM

View PostThe Ghost of Ned Martin, on 12 October 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:

You simply DO NOT trade JD Drew in a contract year. It is during contract years when he demonstrates why he was once the top pick in the MLB Draft. I have never understood why so many dislike Drew. Has he lived up to his potential? No but he has always been a very productive MLB hitter, an excellent baserunner and defensive outfielder. What would you consider a worse investment? The money the team has paid to Drew over the course of his time here or the money thrown at the SS position? Drew has produced, especially in clutch situations.I certainly wouldn't re-sign him unless his price drops dramatically but I think, overall, he was a decent investment.

You have overlooked the main reason Drew Sucks. People call him Nancy, and there's no comeback for that. He's severely limited with that monicker, and it has a negative effect on the fan base.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:37 PM

Ortiz is still on the team and he gets to face righties and DH home games. Dunn could play a game or two at 1B and there are always injuries to consider. As far as LF is concerned I would think the Red Sox at that point would use their current corps of Kalish, Ellsbury, Cameron, and Drew. I'm also a believer in Cameron getting traded this off-season but even if he isn't, it could still work. Also, not every away park has a spacious LF which could give Dunn more time in LF and give Ortiz more time to DH.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:49 PM

Can we hop back into reality and remember that Dunn should not be allowed anywhere near the outfield, unless it's for autograph signing? If Ortiz stays, no to Dunn.
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rominer 

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:52 PM

Let's not get carried away. Dunn can play LF, but only if the Sox pick up Ben Sheets to shore up the rotation.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 12:59 PM

Can Dunn play CF also? Hear me out. ellsbury can PH and DH, also playing some SS to spell Scutaro, who will primarily catch next year. Tek is coming back, as a pitcher, but he'll need Papi to be his special catcher to catch his gyroball. So when Papi catches Ellsbury DH's, but won't be allowed to steal, so he appears to have more power. Otherwise, Scutaro catches, but Beltre plays behind him to make Scutaro's throws (hurt shoulder), leaving a hole at third - where Youkilis can come in, when he's not selling popcorn.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 01:03 PM

View PostManny, on 12 October 2010 - 12:59 PM, said:

Can Dunn play CF also? Hear me out. ellsbury can PH and DH, also playing some SS to spell Scutaro, who will primarily catch next year. Tek is coming back, as a pitcher, but he'll need Papi to be his special catcher to catch his gyroball. So when Papi catches Ellsbury DH's, but won't be allowed to steal, so he appears to have more power. Otherwise, Scutaro catches, but Beltre plays behind him to make Scutaro's throws (hurt shoulder), leaving a hole at third - where Youkilis can come in, when he's not selling popcorn.


That dock sweeping position had better come with internet access.
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Posted 12 October 2010 - 01:46 PM

I don't see why that's such a problem when Dunn, who has LF experiance, would be playing LF in the shortest ballpark. Yes he's a butcher, but it's not like they need Willie Mays. The Red Sox lived off Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez in LF for an entire season. I think Dunn will do just fine.
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rominer 

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 04:06 PM

View PostRed Sox Fan2, on 12 October 2010 - 01:46 PM, said:

I don't see why that's such a problem when Dunn, who has LF experiance, would be playing LF in the shortest ballpark. Yes he's a butcher, but it's not like they need Willie Mays. The Red Sox lived off Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez in LF for an entire season. I think Dunn will do just fine.


Adam Dunn makes Manny and Bay look like Willie Mays, for one thing.

Beyond that, though, it's not that Dunn couldn't work. But it's a square peg in a round hole kind of situation. He doesn't directly address the team's biggest needs. He's not a catcher, he's not a third baseman, he's not a relief pitcher.

He doesn't fit the bill as a replacement righty bat if the Sox fail to retain Beltre and Martinez.

As a LF, he would actively stand in the way of revisiting this year's notion that, while Ellsbury is a middle-of-the-pack CF, he could be a premier defensive LF. As a 1B, he's forcing the team to move a gold glove player out of that position. As a DH, he's not good enough against righties to match Ortiz's production, and not good enough against lefties to be an unconventional platoon partner.

If you sign him, you're gaining in some areas, but sacrificing considerably in others – and it all but necessitates rethinking other parts of your roster to make it work. That's not impossible, but it seems like it would require too many moving parts to be a logical Plan A.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:23 AM

View PostRed Sox Fan2, on 12 October 2010 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why not sign Dunn? Play him in LF when the Sox are at home and DH him against LHP and away games.


Because he makes Manny Ramirez look like Jacoby Ellsbury and Mike Cameron's love child in the field, and supposedly isn't willing to DH? Plus we already have a LF, unless your plan is to trade Ellsbury (or just give up on Cameron being healthy) for someone to play 3B, in which case some roster gymnastics would be required before such a signing could occur.

This post has been edited by JMDurron: 13 October 2010 - 07:24 AM

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:02 AM

View Postrominer, on 12 October 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

As a DH, he's not good enough against righties to match Ortiz's production, and not good enough against lefties to be an unconventional platoon partner.


I agree with just about everything you posted except for this. Dunn's LHP vs RHP splits are much more level than Ortiz's, but he still has good production against both. Last season he had a superb .965 OPS versus RHPs. Against LHPs he had a respectable .719. David Ortiz does have a better OPS versus RHPs, but not astronomically better (1.059). His .599 versus LHPs is what makes him strictly a platoon DH. I think Dunn's ability to mash righties and hold his own against lefties makes him an everyday, non-platoon DH.

Another thing that Dunn has over Ortiz is the fact that he stays pretty consistent throughout the year. It's been well documented over the past couple years that Ortiz has turned into a slow starter. He does break out with some very good months during the summer, but Dunn seems to keep the same level of play all season long. This is probably unfair since one man a team does not make, but I have to wonder how many games the Red Sox could have won this year if Ortiz didn't have a sub-.600 OPS for the first month of the year.

On the other side of that, Ortiz does strike out quite a bit, but Dunn strikes out an awful lot. They both rack up a lot of walks, but Dunn had an alarming ~40 walk decline from 2009 to 2010.

Given the option, I'd rather have Ortiz and Martinez platooning DH. Adam Dunn would be a good plan B if he's willing to be an everyday DH.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:09 AM

When he hits .213 and K's three times a game, while butchering LF and being "country" all the while...Something tells me that's a recipe for disaster in Boston.

This post has been edited by Manny's PS2: 13 October 2010 - 09:10 AM

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:32 AM

Ortiz:
34
2008: .264/.369/.507/.876 23 HR 70/74 BB/K
2009: .238/.332/.462/.794 28 HR 74/134 BB/K
2010: .270/.370/.529/.899 32 HR 82/145 BB/K
Dunn:
30
2008: .236/.386/.513/.899 40 HR 122/164 BB/K
2009: .267/.398/.529/.927 38 HR 116/177 BB/K
2010: .260/.356/.536/.892 38 HR 77/199 BB/K
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:34 AM

I get it, dude hits ball far. But is he equipped for Boston and does he fit the roster needs? Maybe they can plant him at first (and i do literally mean to plant him, because those feet don't move) and move Youks to third...

I just have a bad feeling about signing the big Country boy in Boston, especially one that K's 200 times a year. Papi gets a pass in Boston (basically) because of previous heroics. If he had all those clutch hits for the Nationals and came to Boston and put up his 08-10 numbers, he'd have hearing loss from the chorus of boos in April each year. He recovers, rides it out and ends up hitting. I'm not sure if Dunn gets the same pass, how the fans/media in Boston will effect him and his worth on a team with a DH, a future DH...and a logjam in the OF.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 10:53 AM

HE'S LIKE A GIANT MARK BELLHORN!!!!!!!!!!

And I really liked Mark Bellhorn.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:40 PM

Like I said in my last post, he's a good plan B if you can't bring back both Ortiz and Martinez. Unfortunately, he'll probably have signed elsewhere by the time plan B takes effect. He's a Type B free agent, so any team can pick him up on the first day of free agency and not have to worry about him being offered arbitration or losing a draft pick. I have a feeling that he won't be available for long.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 12:55 PM

View PostMike LansWho, on 13 October 2010 - 09:02 AM, said:

I agree with just about everything you posted except for this. Dunn's LHP vs RHP splits are much more level than Ortiz's, but he still has good production against both. Last season he had a superb .965 OPS versus RHPs. Against LHPs he had a respectable .719. David Ortiz does have a better OPS versus RHPs, but not astronomically better (1.059). His .599 versus LHPs is what makes him strictly a platoon DH. I think Dunn's ability to mash righties and hold his own against lefties makes him an everyday, non-platoon DH.

...

Given the option, I'd rather have Ortiz and Martinez platooning DH. Adam Dunn would be a good plan B if he's willing to be an everyday DH.


Yes.

If you have David Ortiz on the roster – which maybe I assume to be more of a foregone conclusion than it actually is – then Dunn, while good against righties, is not better. He's acceptable against lefties. Better enough than Ortiz that you would play him against lefties if those were your choices, but not so much better that you would actively pursue him for the sake of some bizarre lefty-lefty platoon. There are better options for a platoon. Sticking to familiar faces to start with, Martinez in that scenario would obviously be great (1.173 vs. lefties this year), Varitek has been very good (~.850) against lefties even in recent seasons when he's been mediocre (or awful) overall, even Darnell McDonald had an .821 OPS vs. lefties.

If we're talking about declining Ortiz's option, signing Dunn to replace him, and using Dunn as a full-time DH, then no question he's the best available free agent option at that position. But that still leaves you without having filled your needs at catcher, 3B, and in the pen. The only need you're filling is one that only exists because you chose to create it by declining Ortiz's option.

In either event, it's not that the Sox couldn't find a way to use Adam Dunn if he was on the roster. It just doesn't make sense to make him a primary target. Giving precedence to needs that you don't have over needs that you do have is a very human and/or American sounding approach to things. But humans and/or Americans are dumb.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 01:52 PM

View Postrominer, on 13 October 2010 - 12:55 PM, said:

But humans and/or Americans are dumb.


This is true. I am both human and an American.
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rominer 

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:07 PM

View PostMike LansWho, on 13 October 2010 - 01:52 PM, said:

This is true. I am both human and an American.


Moron.
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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:08 PM

http://www.obscureprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/get_a_brain_morans.jpg
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