[redsoxmania13]

Not sure if this is the right forum to post this...

[Sox Fan in Pensacola]

Hey you forgot move the Sox to Hartford... :)

[Sox Fan in Pensacola]

Ahhh, being able to afford tickets to Fenway... That is a novel idea. Then a family could go to the game and enjoy themselves without spending an entire week's vacation fund on one three hour game...

That's why I don't mind occassionally going to see the Sox at another venue.

[Fenway]

Sox Fan in CT, on Dec 4 2003, 07:45 AM, said:

Hey you forgot move the Sox to Hartford... :)

Whatever happened to the minor league park they were going to build in Hartford??? It was supposed to be like a mini Ebbetts Field

[RedSoxAnni]

I've got to go with a new ballpark. Fenway has its charm, its sentimental value, and its historical significance, but it is an anachronism. It's just not a comfortable place to watch a baseball game.

I don't think the Sox will have a problem filling a ballpark, as long as the owners put competitive teams on the field. In order to keep revenues up, and to get ticket prices in a more competitive range, the Sox need a stadium that holds at least 45,000. Adding 1000 seats to Fenway Park does not significanlty increase revenues. And it does nothing to improve the current configuration.

I agree that HWL have improved the Park, and have made it more fan-friendly. It is cleaner, and more inviting. However, the seats are still too small, the right field seats do not face homeplate, and the support columns turn every single grandstand seat into an obstructed view seat. You pay $44 for infield grandstand seats behind first base, and your view of either the left-handed batters box, or first base, or a portion of the basebath between first and second is obstructed. There's no way around this, because of the way the park is supported.

Putting an upper deck on the park does not get rid of the columns in the grandstand sections. And it doesn't help the current configuration in right field. If the Sox ripped out all the seats and redesigned the park, they'd probably end up with a lower capacity ballpark.

An upper deck, while feasible, would be very expensive. I don't know the cost of the "green monster" seats, but the foundation work needed to build them was considerable. Those new seats are supported on 140 piles, driven 50 to 80 feet into the Boston Blue Clay. The left field wall is not supporting any of the load. An upper deck would have to be supported the same way, by driving hundreds of deep piles around the existing supporting walls. An upper deck would have to be an independent structure, constructed external to the existing one. It might not be cost-effective to do this.

The time has come to face the reality that Fenway Park should be preserved as a cultural artifact, but the Red Sox should move on.

Anni

[Nuf Ced]

RedSoxAnni, on Dec 4 2003, 10:01 PM, said:

I agree that HWL have improved the Park, and have made it more fan-friendly. It is cleaner, and more inviting. However, the seats are still too small, the right field seats do not face homeplate, and the support columns turn every single grandstand seat into an obstructed view seat.

There is another option which is making the rounds which would mean gutting Fenway on the existing site and rebuilding which would require them to play at Gillette Stadium for 1 or 2 years.

HOK designed Gillette that it CAN be modified for baseball similar to Pro Player in Miami. Short term a pain in the neck, though our friends in Ct and RI wouldn't mind. But commuter rail from So Station would get the city folk there. Long term the Sox return to sacred ground.

Of course there is the Seaport option which now with the Dig finished would have good access and McCourt wants to sell. Whatever the land costs are in Southie, they would make back in selling the Fenway parcel which would be coveted by BU, the hospitals or a developer that could build a monster mall there.

Another factor is I am not sure Kenmore Sq can absorb another 8 to 10,000 people a night. The Green Line is full as it is and highway access is limited. I dunno maybe an on/off ramp for the Pike but that would be backed up to Newton Corner.

I think ownership will watch the new park in Philadelphia carefully as they ponder what to do.

[Lou Duffys Cliff]

2 words... waterfront park

[chowder35]

They need to build a new park, renovation might end up costing more. I too am one of the tall people who can't sit a whole game at Fenway, I find myself hanging w/ the standing room only people because i can't sit fit in the seats well.

[SoSHnubbed]

Absolutely you have to keep Fenway Park as the home of the Boston Red Sox. And I don't mean necessarily the stadium as is - but the Sox just won't be the Sox unless they're playing on that specific field.

I agree that Fenway is a tourist attraction in and of itself, and I think it's become such an important part of Americana that it should be preserved as a historical landmark. But I do understand the economics of baseball, and the need to have a higher capacity stadium.

I just think the Sox mystique would take a major hit if they played anywhere else other than the field at Fenway.

Think about it - how could the Sox ever play at a stadium without the Monster?

:(

[rico1024]

I voted to add another deck for a variety of reasons. In a way, would I like a new ballpark? Sure I would, as would many fans, as Fenway doesn't have the amenities that these new ball parks do (not that I feel that you need them). But more to the point for me, at least, is that Fenway is uncomfortable if you are over 5'8". Not only that, but with 34k seats, a payroll of $120m+, ticket prices are astronomical as they are now just to cover payroll and try to compete. Baseball used to be a family type event. Where the average Joe could bring his kids to the game, buy them a dog, soda, and peanuts, and have a good all around time. Now you have to be a corp exec in order to afford to bring anyone but yourself to the game. I mean, it shouldn't cost a parent $200+ (obviously not including beer) to bring a kid or 2 to the game. Let's face it: Not everyone can afford to buy $4 hot dogs and $5 sodas...

So why did I vote to add another deck? Reality. Fact is that it will be damn near impossible to have the politicians sign off on a new park even though the RS accounts for a very large part of the local economy. (I will work on finding figures) Southie doesn't want it. The waterfront property would be perfect (an East Coast Pac Bell!), but we are all well too aware of the politics in Boston to know that if it were easy to do, it would be done, not to mention the financing that it would take to just acquire the property and physically build the park, and also all the padding we would have to do to all the local big wigs. Who doesn't really love Fenway? I get the goosebumps every time I am there-which is far less than I would like now that I am down in CT- There is no replacing the Green Monstah, the mystique, tradition, or the way the park is situated. A friend of mine (die hard MFY fan) was absolutely dumbfounded when he was visiting Boston. He said "Damn, I walked right by it and didn't even know it was there." It is a stadium which was built INTO the city....even the MFY fans get chills when I bring them there.... So I voted add a new deck since I think the odds of getting a new stadium are slim in the near future.

Do I think a new stadium needs to be built at some point? Yes, but not because of the economics for the RS, but for RSN, and the legions of youngins that would like to be able to afford to go more than once or twice a year. More people would be able to go. I have to spend an absurd amount to get tickets when I come, and that is IF there are any to even be had. Truth is that if the Sox were playing in an old garbage dump, they would have as loyal and as big a following as they do now. My parents weren't/aren't real into sports other than the ones that the kids played, but anytime something big is going on with the Sox, they bring it up. I am hooked to the sox like Robert Downey Jr is hooked on booze and coke. I just can't shake it and there is no other reason other than if you are in the Boston area, it is in your blood, and you are willing to give your blood and anything else to see them win. For the life of me, with all the love and passion we collectively have for the RS, why the friggen politicians can't hammer something out. RS are a cash cow...Do they think they would lose money on this?? I bet if they said we need public donations (crap) that it would raise a significant amount from the RSN. Why couldn't RSN buy shares like the Packers fans at Lambeau?

Where most cities are building new parks with all the bells and whistles to try to bring fans in (not working, btw), we should be building one to ALLOW more fans to be able to go and see the one thing that unites us all. Until then, I vote to keep adding more seats...

[MCO Sox Fan]

While a new ballpark would be nice, all you have to do is look a little further south to Baltimore to see what happens if you do not field a competitive team in a newer park. Camden Yards was an impossible seat when it was new, but as the Orioles sank to the bottom of the standings seats became available. If you look to the West a little ways, you see Wrigley field and a stadium that fills its seats no matter how bad the Cubbies are. Wrigley has the same feel and mystique as Fenway, and I do not think that the Sox can move that into a new stadium no matter how nice it is.

I voted for the upper deck, but would love to see a major renovation of the seating areas while keeping the field the same as it is now. Knowing that Gillette can house the Sox for a couple of years while reconstruction takes place would ease my concerns of an extended refurbishment. Yank out all the seats (exept of course the Monstah seats) and rebuild the seating structures with multiple decks, suites, and of course no more obstructed views. They rebuilt Soldier field without disturbing the outer shell of the building, and I would love to see the original brickwork saved in any renovation. Yes, it would cost more money, but I feel that they would make more money in the long term by keeping the field where it is with the outfield walls, bullpens, and Monstah intact.

[Nuf Ced]

I really want them to rebuild on the present site and if it means a year or 2 of Foxboro, so be it. In exchange for 2 years of misery, Red Sox baseball will be back where it should be for decades to come.

I just don't think it is possible to do the work needed during an off season, this IS Boston and nothing ever gets done on time or on budget.

[Rustjive]

nufced, on Dec 26 2003, 03:33 PM, said:

I really want them to rebuild on the present site and if it means a year or 2 of Foxboro, so be it. In exchange for 2 years of misery, Red Sox baseball will be back where it should be for decades to come.

I just don't think it is possible to do the work needed during an off season, this IS Boston and nothing ever gets done on time or on budget.

ala The Big Dig, the Sox would probably be stuck at Foxboro for the next decade or so.

The benefits for the Pats might be alright, because they might actually get some decent groundskeeping...

Even though it is an anachronism, Fenway's got so many idiosyncrasies about it that it'd be pretty difficult for me to see it go down. I'm proud when I say we've got Fenway; I cannot imagine telling someone that I'm proud about our new stadium. I fear we'd fade into obscurity like PNC in Pittsburgh or Comerica in Detroit.

[GWSoxFan]

I'm a pretty big fan of the plan that came out a couple of years ago to leave the Monster up where it is and make a small park out of the infield and left field and then build a new stadium on the other side of Yawkey Way (this might not be possible anymore. Were they going to use any of that land that the new Landmark Center or whatever that thing is called was built on?). I like Fenway, but I too am tall (6'5") and I'm starting to prefer staying at home watching the games on TV in a COMFORTABLE seat rather than trying to cram into those seats that were built for people who are 5'5".