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*** Official 2012 Boston Red Sox ***
what to do? who to get? trades? so many things.

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SFFM38 

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:53 PM

This says it all! my 1st topic EVER!.

My main concern would be Carl ****ing Crawford because .255 / 11 HR / 56 RBI / 18 SB for 18M is just simply unacceptable, maybe ask Carl in the off season to see if he wants to be trade or not.
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rominer 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:00 AM

Fold the team.
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:17 AM

Baseball sucks.
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:20 AM

View PostSFFM38, on 28 September 2011 - 11:53 PM, said:

My main concern would be Carl ****ing Crawford because .255 / 11 HR / 56 RBI / 18 SB for 18M is just simply unacceptable, maybe ask Carl in the off season to see if he wants to be trade or not.


Before tonight I honestly wasn't concerned about the 2012 Carl Crawford. I fooled myself into believing that his bad year would motivate him to come back next year and be the player we all thought Theo signed. After not coming up with the catch tonight I assume (hope) that he feels worse than I do and it will weigh on him and crush any hope of a bounce back year.

Maybe it's too early for me to be talking about this.

Ok, I'm going to try to look at this reasonably...

Starting Pitching: In spite of the past month you have to think that the top 3 of Lester, Beckett and Buchholz will be solid. I love the guy, but Wakefield needs to hang em up. We're stuck with Lackey, but maybe he gets his personal issues behind him and get's his ERA down to 5.50 next year, although that might be asking for too much. I don't like any of the minor league options for a 5th starter. They can move Aceves into the rotation or possibly pick up another
starter.

Relief Pitchers: I'm pissed at Papelbon right now because of tonight, but he has pitched a lot recently and maybe expecting anyone to be the 2004 Keith Foulke is too much to ask of anyone. I say bring him back. Bard had a rough 5 or so outings, but he was unreal for most of the year, so we're still solid in the set up role. I'd like to see them exercise Wheeler's option and give him more opportunities in closer games. He got in the dog house early, and in spite of pitching well he could never get any work in situations that mattered. Other than that they'll likely bring in an assortment of arms to try to find some decent middle relief.

Position players: Drew is obviously gone. I hope Reddick can successfully play RF every day, but I doubt it.

I'd like to see Scutaro come back. It took a great September for everyone to realize that he's a pretty good player. I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go and gave the job to Iglesias though.

I expect Tek to get another cheap 1 year deal to back up Saltalmacchia.

Based on 2011, Ortiz certainly deserves and should get a new deal.

The rest of the positions are basically locked up.

One thing I just thought of, management is going to want to do something big to get fans thinking about 2012 instead of 2011. I wonder if they'll decide to let Ortiz go and go after Pujols and platoon him and Gonzalez at DH/1B... Or maybe they let Scutaro go, trade Iglesias for a pitcher and go after Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins. Or maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into the 2012 World Series so that I don't slit my wrists tonight.

This post has been edited by BigSlick: 29 September 2011 - 03:22 AM

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SFFM38 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:56 AM

Reyes, Ellsbury, Crawford combined ...! talk about speed kills!!, thanks for a good post.. atleast that made me feel little bit better, what do u think it would take to sign Reyes? 4/40M ? maybe? but then Lugo got that and we all know how that worked out.
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:04 AM

View PostSFFM38, on 29 September 2011 - 03:56 AM, said:

Reyes, Ellsbury, Crawford combined ...! talk about speed kills!!, thanks for a good post.. atleast that made me feel little bit better, what do u think it would take to sign Reyes? 4/40M ? maybe? but then Lugo got that and we all know how that worked out.


I'm sure it would be more than 4/40. He made $11mil this year. It would be more like 4/60.

Edit: And the only reason I have it at 4/60 instead of more money is the injury concerns.

This post has been edited by BigSlick: 29 September 2011 - 04:06 AM

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SFFM38 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:15 AM

View PostBigSlick, on 29 September 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

I'm sure it would be more than 4/40. He made $11mil this year. It would be more like 4/60.

Edit: And the only reason I have it at 4/60 instead of more money is the injury concerns.


just looked it up on Cots site Marco has a 12 club option, so they might exercise that option , hey would you mind to tell me what happening to RSN site? last 3 years or so users on this site seems to be on the decline side, I still love this site... I have a feeling its because of Twitter killing this site, and I don't have a twitter account.

This post has been edited by SFFM38: 29 September 2011 - 04:16 AM

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:40 AM

View PostSFFM38, on 29 September 2011 - 04:15 AM, said:

just looked it up on Cots site Marco has a 12 club option, so they might exercise that option , hey would you mind to tell me what happening to RSN site? last 3 years or so users on this site seems to be on the decline side, I still love this site... I have a feeling its because of Twitter killing this site, and I don't have a twitter account.


It's not twitter. This site has always been somewhat juvenile in the way we go about things and it turns off some people.

The way I look at it is that it's supposed to be fun and with the majority of baseball topics there isn't anything that anyone here can tell anyone else that they don't already know. For example, we all know Ellsbury had an unreal season, we all know that not only did he hit a ton of HR's this year but that his number of doubles skyrocketed as well. We also know that the big jump in XBH led to his stolen base numbers going down because he finished a plate appearance on first a lot less often this year compared to 2009. I also could have written "(his last full season)" after 2009, but everyone here knows he missed almost all of last year as well, so there was no point in saying it. So instead of saying the obvious we spend a lot of time calling GoNM a pervert and calling everyone else an asshole or douchebag or whatever the insult of the day is.

Among the few that are left here I think there is a genuine bond though. It's the reason I offered to buy a ticket for anyone who wanted it when I won the drawing for Monster seats, and why gof messaged me today that if he could get out of his meeting early that we'd meet at the park and we exchanged phone numbers without ever thinking "hang on, this person is a total stranger." It's also why a large group of us are all friends on Facebook now. So basically, this site is what it is. I doubt we'll ever get as big as we were a few years ago, but I'd be really surprised if any of the current regular posters stopped posting.

This post has been edited by BigSlick: 29 September 2011 - 04:44 AM

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JMDurron 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:48 AM

My "outside of the box" idea is that, despite his awesome 2011 season, David Ortiz is not a wise investment going forward. The Red Sox need to pull a Bill Belichick and, as they did with Damon and Pedro, let a star player and franchise icon walk away a year too early instead of a year too late. That's not so "outside of the box" by itself, but my reasoning is - I don't think Kevin Youkilis can be relied upon to stay healthy and effective as a full-time 3B (and he's not a good defensive 3B anyway), so with Gonzalez doing an excellent job at 1B, I think Youk should be our DH for the remainder of his contract. This means that the primary hole to be filled with regards to the position players (I concur with the plan to pick up Scutaro's option, the man tried to clinch a playoff berth almost single-handed today, despite being thrown out at home) is 3B, which may require some creative thinking by Theo. Assuming Sctuaro at SS, Aviles and Lowrie are both already on the roster, but both seem like excellent depth/bench players instead of starters. Middlebrooks isn't ready yet. I have no idea what the solution would be, and damn the Texas Rangers straight to hell for giving Beltre such an insane contract last offseason.
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The Ghost of Ned Martin 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:21 AM

View PostJMDurron, on 29 September 2011 - 07:48 AM, said:

My "outside of the box" idea is that, despite his awesome 2011 season, David Ortiz is not a wise investment going forward. The Red Sox need to pull a Bill Belichick and, as they did with Damon and Pedro, let a star player and franchise icon walk away a year too early instead of a year too late. That's not so "outside of the box" by itself, but my reasoning is - I don't think Kevin Youkilis can be relied upon to stay healthy and effective as a full-time 3B (and he's not a good defensive 3B anyway), so with Gonzalez doing an excellent job at 1B, I think Youk should be our DH for the remainder of his contract. This means that the primary hole to be filled with regards to the position players (I concur with the plan to pick up Scutaro's option, the man tried to clinch a playoff berth almost single-handed today, despite being thrown out at home) is 3B, which may require some creative thinking by Theo. Assuming Sctuaro at SS, Aviles and Lowrie are both already on the roster, but both seem like excellent depth/bench players instead of starters. Middlebrooks isn't ready yet. I have no idea what the solution would be, and damn the Texas Rangers straight to hell for giving Beltre such an insane contract last offseason.


Agree 100% with this JMD. Ortiz is going to want a multiple year deal and this team can simply not afford another bad, multiple year contract. Youk's health going forward is a serious concern and moving him to DH will prolong his period of offensive productivity. I was not a big fan of the Scutaro signing but he is a solid SS and hitter.

I'm wondering is Alex Gordon could be available from the Royals? I know he was moved to OF this year but was a 3B originally. A possible option though KC might want to get a few more years production after his disappointing first few years. He could be a bridge to Middlebrooks (assuming Theo doesn't trade him for BJ Uption http://www.redsoxnation.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif ) and then moved to the OF when Middlebrooks is ready.
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acr 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:36 PM

Crawford is making too much money and we can't pay him to play for someone else like Renteria, so we can only hope he goes back to his hometown this offseason and gets involved in a drive-by.

We need a solid starter, I know CJ Wilson is a free agent, not sure about other options. Beckett-Lester-Buchholz is a good top 3 if healthy, and I'd keep Bedard around too. Lackey is probably stuck here, but even if he's just a little bad instead of historically bad, that's a net gain. I could see them giving Mark Beuhrle stupid money too.

Tell Varitek that if he retires now, he'll get a plaque and his own day at Fenway, then go into the year with Salty and Lavarnway as catchers. If no other options present themselves on the market, I'd take the option on Marco and see if Iglesias is good enough to take over by June or July. The rest of the infield seems like it'll stick, though I'd entertain the idea of dealing Youkilis(I love him, but he's starting to get those chronic injuries and is a man out of position to begin with). Drew is likely gone, and I'm the only person who liked him. Reddick/Kalish battling for the RF job is okay, but I'm still uncomfortable with a totally lefthanded outfield. At the very least they need a guy to be the new Gabe Kapler, Darnell McDonald may be a cult hero, but he sucks. Coco Crisp is a FA and we know he can play OF at Fenway, and there may be other guys out there too.

And the most important part: Sign Papelbon. Even if he lost last night(and I attribute that completely to the fact that he's pitched like 17 innings in the last week, and Crawford ****ing up a routine liner), he had an amazing season and has been the second most consistent closer in baseball since 2005. Bring back Bard and Aceves, otherwise retool the bullpen. Franklin Morales is alright too, but they have to find someone more trustworthy than Albers or Wheeler for that 5th option. I don't think the bullpen was that bad this year, but the fact that the starters couldn't get you 6 innings constantly exposed the bad side of it.

Oh, and don't fire Francona. Not that I like him or anything, but I think more bad than good will come out of that, especially considering how he and Pedroia are like butt buddies.

Ortiz may be gone...he's going to be good in 2012 still, I just think some crappy team like the White Sox or Angels will give him the extra year that we can't afford just because he's David Ortiz and will sell tickets. I doubt Pujols/Fielder will come here to DH, but I could see Aramis Ramirez or someone like that getting picked up for a few years.
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 02:21 PM

From Cot's

Free Agents

Jonathan Papelbon: Despite what happened last night, I think he showed this year that he is one of the game's better closers. And Daniel Bard showed that he is not ready for that role. He has also shown over the past few years that he's no longer invincible. The team should make a serious effort to retain him. If someone wants to give him a K-Rod deal, you have to let him go.

David Ortiz: You never know when the FA market is going to turn on a dime, but I think the trend in baseball would be against Ortiz getting the multi-year elite slugger deal that he presumably wants. So throw that out the window. As a fan, I'm sick of acrimonious endings. As an imaginary GM, I would rather let my manager figure out how to get Youkilis more days off/time at DH with Ortiz still in the mix than figure out how to get an adequate everyday 3B while making a lateral move at DH. I try for one year with a mutual option.

Jason Varitek: He will never throw out another baserunner again. But he had a solid backup catcher year, and with concerns about Saltalamacchia mostly answered, the team would need to rely on him even less next year. Unless the team is prepared to go all-in on Lavarnway, I'm fine with bringing Tek back for one more year.

Tim Wakefield: I hate to say it, but I think his time may finally have come. But even at that, I'm not making a final call unless and until I know that I have multiple better options locked in.

JD Drew: Probably retired, definitely gone.

Erik Bedard: Was never healthy enough to contribute, which is standard for Bedard. Still, worth at least evaluating his health and considering.

Conor Jackson: He did have those 3 hits.

Trever Miller: He had a 0.00 ERA for the Sox this year. Where was he last night?


Team Options

Dan Wheeler: Here's one where I do blame Francona a bit. He was awful, went on the DL, came back and was very good. Should have been worked into more meaningful situations once he got back on track. Bring him back.

Marco Scutaro: Jose Iglesias has roughly a 0% chance of being MLB ready (as in, able to hit over .215 while he's showing off his glove) to start next year. Jed Lowrie has roughly a 0% chance of being healthy for a full season at SS. Unless they want to pay Jose Reyes a billion dollars for deciding to show up in his contract year, then this is a no-brainer. If Iglesias steals his job by year's end, great. You have an overpaid utility guy. Oh well.

Andrew Miller: Whatever. If they want to keep working on that project, fine. But he does not see a day on the MLB roster unless he earns it and continues to earn it. He was great in Pawtucket, he had occasional flashes of not sucking in Boston, but he was not ready yet when he demanded to be put on the MLB roster, and wound up taking a step back as a result. He hurt the team. He hurt his own career. Decline the option, then work out a new minor league deal if you want. Or tell him to f**k himself. Either way. And if he doesn't want the minor league deal, **** him. He's not the only lefty in the world who can't throw strikes.


Arbitration Eligible

Jacoby Ellsbury (2): Scott Boras, career year, blah blah blah, whatever. Try to work out a long-term deal, and when it doesn't happen, be glad for arbitration.
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (1): Keep him.
Alfredo Aceves (1): Keep him.
Matt Albers (3): Exceeded expectations this year. Hit a rough stretch near the end, but you're not leaning on him to be one of your top guys. I would keep him.
Mike Aviles (1): Did some good things down the stretch, proved not to be a particularly good defensive 3B, there's no real urgency here.
Darnell McDonald (1): Depends how they choose to address RF.
Jed Lowrie (1): It was the best of Jed Lowrie, it was the worst of Jed Lowrie. His defense at SS was awful. He's a switch hitter who can only actually hit from one side of the plate. Bring him back, make him promise never to bat left handed again, give him about 50 games at 3B while you rest or DH Youkilis.
Franklin Morales (1): Way too erratic, but the last impression he left was that (temporarily) season-saving performance against the Yankees.

Other:

Francona: Keep him. Not his fault.
Epstein: Keep him. He made some mistakes, but this is not his fault.
Curt Young: Explain yourself.
Training and medical staff: Explain yourself.
Tim Bogar: What the **** were you thinking?

Lackey: You can't use your breastless wife as an excuse anymore. Get it together.
Matsuzaka: I'm trying to think of a reason not to just release him.
Johnny Damon: If you weren't dead to me before, you are dead to me now.
Yankees: **** them.
Rays: Contract them. I don't care if they are good. They have 2 fans. Them being good does not help baseball.
Beckett-Lester-Buchholz: You need to be better.
Carl Crawford: Come to think of it, maybe they do need to keep Darnell McDonald.
Adrian Gonzalez: If God doesn't like the Red Sox, then God is an asshole. I don't think that you think God is an asshole. Get your shoulder healthy. Go home and practice your mental toughness. If you get good at it, maybe you can show Daniel Bard how to do it.

Big free agents: No. Those have not worked.

Josh Reddick: Learn how to catch a baseball and you will be a good player someday.

Bobby Jenks: Salad. Yoga.

New England Patriots: Play some ****ing defense. We need you now more than ever.

Other people: Go **** yourselves.
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 02:48 PM

I doubt many of the questions about 2012 will be answered today, but for those near a TV, NESN is carrying a Theo/Tito Press Conference at 4pm.
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BigSlick 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:10 PM

"Nobody blames what happened in September on Tito. That would be totally irresponsible" --Theo Epstein
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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:45 PM

View PostBigSlick, on 29 September 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

"Nobody blames what happened in September on Tito. That would be totally irresponsible" --Theo Epstein


Wow, Tito couldn't get out of there fast enough. I'm hoping what Theo said wasn't just lip service. Francona shouldn't be the fall guy. Everyone had a hand in the suck that was September.
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acr 

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:17 PM

I read this idea on another board and was wondering what people would think:


Lackey for Zito, straight up. Both of them have sucked and need changes of scenery. Lackey has more years left, but Zito more money overall on the contract.
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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:31 AM

View Postacr, on 29 September 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

I read this idea on another board and was wondering what people would think:


Lackey for Zito, straight up. Both of them have sucked and need changes of scenery. Lackey has more years left, but Zito more money overall on the contract.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of Lackey for Zambrano.
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Posted 03 October 2011 - 08:04 AM

I wonder if anybody would pick up Lackey or Crawford if they were put on irrevocable waivers. I would assume that Crawford might get a bite. Lackey, probably not. You probably would have to do one of those bad contract swap deals. Zito is probably more likely as it sounds like Ozzie Guillen will make a big push for Zambrano in Florida. And really, is a personality like Zambrano really what this team needs right now?? Getting back to the point, it might be a smart idea to put these guys on irrevocable waivers. If they get claimed then the money is off the books. You would have to go out and fill those slots, but at least you wouldn't have that money tied up. Talk about a Belichick style message move.

The DH situation, I agree that with Ortiz and Youkilis on the team you essentially have two DH's. However, I think that it is Youkilis who needs to go. The dude is fragile. He was fragile even when he was playing 1B. I think that the Sox need to gamble on Ortiz over the next two years and find a trading partner for Youkilis. His durability aside, he should fetch a decent return. What to do at 3B, I haven't thought about yet. That is definitely an issue, but I think it will be an issue any way you slice it.
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Posted 03 October 2011 - 08:37 AM

Addendum:

Maybe it won't be so easy to trade Youkilis since he will be having surgery tomorrow for the sports hernia.
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Posted 03 October 2011 - 08:46 AM

Putting Lackey on waivers and having another team claim him is a pipe dream. He is in Boston because 2 years ago the Red Sox were willing to pay more for him than any other team in baseball was willing to pay. Do you think some GM somewhere is going to say "Well, I didn't think he was worth that kind of money then, but now that he's had an ERA over 6 he sure as hell is worth it now!"?

The same goes for Crawford, with one major difference. Carl Crawford is not the player we saw in 2011. I don't know if it was the pressure of playing in Boston or a slump that snowballed, but I am willing to bet that he bounces back and has a big year next year. He's too good a player not to.
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