[Cudahy]

I bet the Sox have never won 3 gold gloves & 3 silver slugger awards in the same year before.
Just looking for silver linings.

Thanks for the info, big slick. My college degree doesn't help me much in this super-dooper techno complex age.

This post has been edited by Cudahy: 03 November 2011 - 05:10 PM

[rominer]

Jackie MacMullan profiles the new GM.

Interesting comments on JD Drew, although I imagine that that's a somewhat loaded segment of the article – maybe more about MacMullan's typical sportswritery sentiments about Drew than Cherington's full assessment of the player.

What really stood out to me, though, was this bit about Cherington's post-playing days in college (if you don't want to read the whole story, the basic background is that injury derailed whatever promise he may have had as a college pitcher):

Quote

He recognized he needed a way to stay connected to baseball, so he offered to help with the pitchers, became a de facto student coach.

Jon Cross was a freshman at Amherst when Cherington watched him throwing during fall ball and spotted a flaw in his delivery.

"It had to do with my posting leg," Cross said. "I had never noticed it. My high school coaches never said anything about it. When Ben mentioned it, he did so without a hint of arrogance. He simply told me, 'This is something Coach will pick up on.'"

Cross paid little mind to Cherington's observation -- until that spring, when Thurston took one look at his freshman's motion and barked, "Look at your posting leg. That's not going to work."

A single instance might not be representative. I have one of those "I corrected a pitcher's mechanics and it made a difference" stories from my playing days, too. And I sucked at baseball, would suck at coaching baseball, would suck at scouting baseball, would be a terrible GM.

But still. Theo recognized the "what," and he could talk about the strategic / mental "how," but I don't ever remember him talking much about the physical "hows" of baseball fundamentals. If that's part of Cherington's bag of tricks, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll be any better or worse than his predecessor – and I don't think it means that Cherington is some sort of old-school anti-stat guy by any stretch – but it is at least a subtle shift in how the front office views the game.

[Manny's PS2]

rominer, on 04 November 2011 - 01:35 AM, said:

A single instance might not be representative. I have one of those "I corrected a pitcher's mechanics and it made a difference" stories from my playing days, too. And I sucked at baseball, would suck at coaching baseball, would suck at scouting baseball, would be a terrible GM.

I don't think telling him his ass looks big in those pantsd qualifies as "fixing mechanics", but we'll allow your little fantasy for this exercise.
I don;t think the GM "fixes mechanics" anyway. If he wants to be the pitching coach and gm, well that's different. Playing college ball at Amherst is like me playing American Legion ball...I might have played against some guys destined for professional sports, but generally it was guys doing it for fun. I don't find that impressive in the least and don't see the relevance. I suppose it shows he's a "baseball guy" in some tangential way...?

[Hail Cesar]

Papi's really making it hard for me to continue to like him. I've liked and respected Papi as a player, but with a lot of his recent comments and actions (i.e. storming into Tito's post-game conference to spout off about the hit prank) it's turning me off to him. The most that the Red Sox should go with Papi is a 2-year deal regardless, so if someone wants to give him more years, then I say just go with Youk/Lavarnway for now and hope to make up Papi's offense elsewhere in the lineup.

Papi speaks about free agency

Quote

“I was expecting something would happen before (the exclusive negotiating period ran out), but so many things are going on,” Ortiz said. “I know everybody has priorities, and to be honest with you, I thought I was one of them.

[rominer]

Manny, on 04 November 2011 - 08:18 AM, said:

I don't think telling him his ass looks big in those pantsd qualifies as "fixing mechanics", but we'll allow your little fantasy for this exercise.
I don;t think the GM "fixes mechanics" anyway. If he wants to be the pitching coach and gm, well that's different. Playing college ball at Amherst is like me playing American Legion ball...I might have played against some guys destined for professional sports, but generally it was guys doing it for fun. I don't find that impressive in the least and don't see the relevance. I suppose it shows he's a "baseball guy" in some tangential way...?

The relevance is not that the guy is going to be General Manager / Pitching Coach. And obviously one little story about something that happened 15 years ago does not mean that he's some sort of whiz at breaking down everyone's mechanics.

The point was more along the lines of, "Maybe he looks at players a bit more through a scout's eye than the previous GM." Not much more than that.

[Manny's PS2]

I guess I see that point, even if it was made by an asshole.

[BigSlick]

It seems as though sales for 2012 tickets aren't going as well as the team would hope. I just got an email stating that if you buy a 4 game "Sox Pax" today that they will waive all fees. These tickets went on sale a couple of weeks ago and they used to always sell out the first day.

[rominer]

BigSlick, on 22 December 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

It seems as though sales for 2012 tickets aren't going as well as the team would hope. I just got an email stating that if you buy a 4 game "Sox Pax" today that they will waive all fees. These tickets went on sale a couple of weeks ago and they used to always sell out the first day.

Oh no. Does this mean that Ace Tickets might take a hit? That's awful.

[BigSlick]

rominer, on 22 December 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

Oh no. Does this mean that Ace Tickets might take a hit? That's awful.

Socialist.

[Manny's PS2]

As long as the Sold out streak©™ stays intact the universe is safe.

[The Ghost of Ned Martin]

BigSlick, on 22 December 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

It seems as though sales for 2012 tickets aren't going as well as the team would hope. I just got an email stating that if you buy a 4 game "Sox Pax" today that they will waive all fees. These tickets went on sale a couple of weeks ago and they used to always sell out the first day.

Well at least the team's payroll will not exceed the Luxury Tax threshold so Liverpool John, Hollywood and Satan will be able to buy Christmas presents this year.

[JMDurron]

Well, I can understand fans feeling very disillusioned after the past few months. I don't really have any recommended major moves that could help, but I'm personally seriously considering re-allocating my Extra Innings funds for this coming season. The core of this team showed me that they didn't give much of a **** at the end of last season, even guys who had previously demonstrated some semblance of an inclination towards being clubhouse leaders in the past, so if this group is going to be even more in my face about how they're miserable human beings who will just tank when the going gets tough, why should I emotionally invest in them? Why should I put in the extra effort (since it gets a little tougher every year on this front) to try to schedule my evenings around having 3+ hours to focus on these guys? Why shouldn't I just put the money in my son's 529 plan and track the games on MLB Gameday and discuss the team on RSN.net/SoSH?

I have nothing against Bobby Valentine or Ben Cherington, but having Tito and Theo gone as the result of the most epic regular season choke job in recent memory (if not of all time) has really killed my enthusiasm for the coming season. All we can do, essentially, is hope that a management shakeup makes the same players play better than they did a year ago, and while I rationally understand that this is the most reasonable course of action, emotionally, I basically have little to no hope going into 2012. I can live with athletes who I root for being assholes, I think that's the baseline expectation. I can live with athletes who I root for doing their best and failing anyway, I think that's the reality of competition, the human condition, and baseball as a whole. I'm not sure I can live with rooting for athletes who lose BECAUSE they are assholes (well, and injured), and take the most competent management team that the franchise has ever had down with them in the process.

So, yeah, no shit 2012 ticket sales are down. Fans spent the last month of the 2011 season having their fingernails metaphorically removed over the course of 4-5 weeks, then spent October watching the team's management melt down, and now we're into month #2 of lackluster, if reasonable offseason moves because there is almost no financial flexibility (Theo didn't exactly pitch a shutout in his term as GM) to improve a team that might or might not be fatally flawed in ways that no outside observer can evaluate.

[BigSlick]

JMDurron, on 23 December 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

Well, I can understand fans feeling very disillusioned

Today, I agree with everything you wrote. I know myself though. By mid March I'll be fighting the urge to start getting excited. By the end of March I'll completely cave and be all in again.

[RedSoxAnni]

BigSlick, on 23 December 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

Today, I agree with everything you wrote. I know myself though. By mid March I'll be fighting the urge to start getting excited. By the end of March I'll completely cave and be all in again.

I will be "all in", but from my living room sofa. I haven't bought any tickets yet. I'm not saying that I won't go to a game in 2012, but right now I'm not planning to buy tickets. Liverpool John doesn't need my money, and the beer is a lot cheaper - and better - at home.

[Mike LansWho]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm excited about the 2012 season already. I have no real issues with how the offseason has gone so far. I liked the addition of Bobby Valentine. I liked the Melancon trade. Heck, I even liked the Nick Punto signing. I don't believe that this team needs to add a ton of guys to be good next year. They're already a good team and everybody knows that. It's actually kind of nice to see an approach other than 'sign the highest priced free agent' that became a staple of the later Theo days. It will be interesting to see what the front office does in January and February. It will be even more interesting to see if Bobby Valentine and Bob McClure can turn things around for this squad. I will be staying tuned all winter and into spring training.

[JMDurron]

BigSlick, on 23 December 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:

Today, I agree with everything you wrote. I know myself though. By mid March I'll be fighting the urge to start getting excited. By the end of March I'll completely cave and be all in again.

I'm hoping that this ends up being true for myself as well, but I'm not feeling it at this point.

Mike LansWho, on 23 December 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

It will be even more interesting to see if Bobby Valentine and Bob McClure can turn things around for this squad. I will be staying tuned all winter and into spring training.

I will be staying tuned as well, but after last season, this squad doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Aside from Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Scutaro, the team tanked to end the season. Your first sentence is basically the key point, and there's no way to gauge that from the outside. We're going to hear some of the right things from pro-team sources (best shape, Valentine has them fired up, jelling together in ST), and the expected wrong things from the town criers (talk radio, crap-stirring columnists) regardless of what is actually going on under the hood.

There's basically nothing tangible that can be done with this team, aside from small tweaks (and I don't hate the deals myself, but none of them are difference makers), and it's frustrating and not exciting to basically just have to sit around and hope that the intangibles work themselves out in 2012 differently than they did in 2011. That's not exciting to follow, at least for me, and frankly I think it's somewhat pathetic that we ever got to this point.