[Kid T]

link

key excerpt:

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The hangup in the negotiations has been twofold. One of them is that Red Sox ownership was still hoping to have Epstein remain with the team. The other is compensation:

So not a done deal, but Buckley is saying that a resolution one way or another is expected within the next day or two.

[Hail Cesar]

I'd like to see Theo stick around because I still think that he's one of the best GMs in baseball regardless of some of the free agent blunders that he's had (which every GM has at some point). I'll be upset if he leaves, but I think that a promotion of Cherington to GM would be a good idea (or if the Red Sox hired me... either way). My real concerns about Theo leaving, however, are (1) who is he taking with him and (2) what are the Red Sox getting as compensation. If you remember the whole Billy Beane saga, I believe that the Red Sox were going to be giving the A's Youk and Trot Nixon as compensation. If the Red Sox could get something similar from the Cubs, that would make things a bit more palatable.

[Mike LansWho]

Hail Cesar, on 12 October 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

If the Red Sox could get something similar from the Cubs, that would make things a bit more palatable.

I was just reading (might have been McAdam) that it wouldn't be MLB players. If anything it will be prospects and/or cash. I have to wonder if Theo will leverage this offer from the Cubs to cash in an extension with the Red Sox.

[Manny's PS2]

Mike LansWho, on 12 October 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

I was just reading (might have been McAdam) that it wouldn't be MLB players. If anything it will be prospects and/or cash. I have to wonder if Theo will leverage this offer from the Cubs to cash in an extension with the Red Sox.

I read the Cubs consulted with MLB and determined adequate compensation would be a prospect. That doesn't mean that's adequate for the Red Sox to release Theo.
Reading is Fundamental.
So is breathing, sleeping and eating.

[Mike LansWho]

I only read the bold words at the top.

Actually, it was an Olney piece citing Ravech who used a source 'with knowledge of the talks' that said the compensation would be prospects and/or cash. The piece mentions that MLB was consulted regarding the compensation protocol, but nowhere does it have MLB saying that it should be a prospect.

[Manny's PS2]

Mike LansWho, on 12 October 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

I only read the bold words at the top.

Actually, it was an Olney piece citing Ravech who used a source 'with knowledge of the talks' that said the compensation would be prospects and/or cash. The piece mentions that MLB was consulted regarding the compensation protocol, but nowhere does it have MLB saying that it should be a prospect.

Well, I read that. It might have been the Hobo World News and Red Sox Report, but I read it. Perhaps the HWN is "The source". I hear Teets was scoring his pain meds from the Hobos, so they know as much as anybody else.

[Hail Cesar]

Mike LansWho, on 12 October 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

I was just reading (might have been McAdam) that it wouldn't be MLB players. If anything it will be prospects and/or cash. I have to wonder if Theo will leverage this offer from the Cubs to cash in an extension with the Red Sox.

You might be right about Theo potentially using the Cubs' offer as leverage to get an extension from the Red Sox. Makes sense.

If Theo does leave, however, it's gotta be prospects, not just one. The Red Sox were willing to give up a MLB player and a prospect for Beane, so you'd think that Theo and his 2 WS rings and ending an 86 year championship drought is more valuable than just a prospect.

Beane to Theo during the Beane saga: "We'll get our Youkilises."

[Manny's PS2]

Supposedly, allegedly Theo has agreed to 15 million 5 year deal from the Cubbies. Hope he brings them a title, wrapped around 5 or 6 Sox titles. He's a known commodity now, and can't sneak up on anyone with his fancy borrowed moneyball ideas, but he's smart and capable and he'll improve the cubs.

[rominer]

Hail Cesar, on 12 October 2011 - 08:56 AM, said:

You might be right about Theo potentially using the Cubs' offer as leverage to get an extension from the Red Sox. Makes sense.

If Theo does leave, however, it's gotta be prospects, not just one. The Red Sox were willing to give up a MLB player and a prospect for Beane, so you'd think that Theo and his 2 WS rings and ending an 86 year championship drought is more valuable than just a prospect.

Beane to Theo during the Beane saga: "We'll get our Youkilises."

Beane's resume in 2002: 4 years as GM, 2 playoff teams.

Epstein's resume in 2011: 9 years as GM, 6 playoff teams, 2 World Series champions.

If the Cubs aren't prepared to offer a significantly better package here than the Red Sox were willing to give up for Beane, then the Cubs should be told to wait until next year and/or to go **** themselves.

What the Cubs want or what Theo wants aren't even relevant, given that he is under contract.

[Hail Cesar]

rominer, on 12 October 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

What the Cubs want or what Theo wants aren't even relevant, given that he is under contract.

Which makes the negotiations all the more interesting. Sure, Theo could "hold out" and not perform his duties, but what's the sense in that if you don't strap on cleats. As far as I know, a GM has never been a hold out. It'd be unheard of and utterly awful.

[rominer]

Hail Cesar, on 12 October 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

Which makes the negotiations all the more interesting. Sure, Theo could "hold out" and not perform his duties, but what's the sense in that if you don't strap on cleats. As far as I know, a GM has never been a hold out. It'd be unheard of and utterly awful.

If we're operating under the assumption that Ben Cherington is the GM-in-waiting at this point anyway, then who even cares?

Theo can break out the gorilla suit and spend the next year in hiding. Or he can "hold out," which in this day and age more or less just means "sign up for a Twitter account" anyway. Cherington runs the show, and the Sox are in the exact same situation that they'd be in if Theo left for the Cubs.

Only, this way, they have a full year to plan their character assassination of Theo Epstein, instead of just a few weeks.

Really. Next time I see some micro-peened douchewad who made a bunch of money producing some crap TV show that got canceled after 3 episodes driving around town in a Ferrari, I think I'm going to say, "As a professional courtesy to your car, I think you should let me have it. I'm willing to offer your car more frequent oil changes. Plus, I want it. It would help me look better. Speaking of which, those sunglasses make you look like an asshole."

I mean, why not, right?

Actually, I think I would be more entitled to the Ferrari in that scenario than the Cubs are to Theo Epstein. Just because.

[pedroia15]

rominer, on 12 October 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

Beane's resume in 2002: 4 years as GM, 2 playoff teams.

Epstein's resume in 2011: 9 years as GM, 6 playoff teams, 2 World Series champions.

If the Cubs aren't prepared to offer a significantly better package here than the Red Sox were willing to give up for Beane, then the Cubs should be told to wait until next year and/or to go **** themselves.

What the Cubs want or what Theo wants aren't even relevant, given that he is under contract.

I do believe that the MLB FO has come out and stated that prospects and or cash would only be the acceptable means of getting
a deal done. I also read that this is due to the league being extremely nervous for future negotiations regarding executives.

[Hail Cesar]

pedroia15, on 12 October 2011 - 11:48 AM, said:

I do believe that the MLB FO has come out and stated that prospects and or cash would only be the acceptable means of getting
a deal done. I also read that this is due to the league being extremely nervous for future negotiations regarding executives.

I don't see what else would be on the table. I mean, I'm pretty sure there won't be manager/coaches "traded" or, for that matter, Chicago dogs or deep dish pizza. If I'm the Red Sox, I want prospects. Screw cash. The Red Sox have enough cash, but some more solid prospects would be nice.

Man, I wish the Red Sox FO had accepted my application for a legal internship. They would have no choice but to promote me if they had.

[Bozzs]

Hail Cesar, on 12 October 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

I don't see what else would be on the table. I mean, I'm pretty sure there won't be manager/coaches "traded" or, for that matter, Chicago dogs or deep dish pizza. If I'm the Red Sox, I want prospects. Screw cash. The Red Sox have enough cash, but some more solid prospects would be nice.

Man, I wish the Red Sox FO had accepted my application for a legal internship. They would have no choice but to promote me if they had.

Let him go...it's time.

[rominer]

pedroia15, on 12 October 2011 - 11:48 AM, said:

I do believe that the MLB FO has come out and stated that prospects and or cash would only be the acceptable means of getting
a deal done. I also read that this is due to the league being extremely nervous for future negotiations regarding executives.

Well, then, given that by most accounts the Cubs don't actually have any prospects, this should be a dead deal.

I understand the league's concerns, but of course, the Cubs aren't obligated to hire someone who is already under contract elsewhere. It doesn't work that way with players. It traditionally has worked that way to some extent with executives – but then, that's usually "we want to hire your assistant whatever to be our head whatever," and teams oblige rather than stand in the way of career advancement.

This is, "we want to hire your head guy to do the exact same thing for us, and we're just going to slap some extra title onto the job so that you feel like you have to play ball." There's no career advancement. It's just some window dressing and "a change of scenery" or "a new opportunity" or something.

That's all well and good. Better to oblige and part with Theo on good terms than to drag it out through next season if that's the way it's going to go.

But still, tough shit if you're the Cubs. You're trying to make a big PR splash by hiring a big, well-known name. You value him enough, beyond the PR (which is a huge, huge part of this), to offer him $15 million (which, granted, is only roughly the equivalent of 125 games worth of Alfonso Soriano). That's great. But he's someone else's property. And he's not just of equal value to any other executive that the Cubs might try to hire away from some other team.

That's not to say that his value is equal to that of the Cubs 2 best MLB players, or whatever. But the Red Sox should hold out for more than what they were going to give up 10 years ago to acquire a less experienced, less accomplished GM. If Bud Selig doesn't like it, then fine. The Sox can just say "no deal."

[Mike LansWho]

The Red Sox should demand Starlin Castro. When that inevitably fails, they should take Brett Jackson as the consolation prize. Right-hand hitting outfielder. He could be your opening day right-fielder. If that doesn't work, demand enough cash to make shipping Lackey off more palatable.

[Bozzs]

Mike LansWho, on 12 October 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

The Red Sox should demand Starlin Castro. When that inevitably fails, they should take Brett Jackson as the consolation prize. Right-hand hitting outfielder. He could be your opening day right-fielder. If that doesn't work, demand enough cash to make shipping Lackey off more palatable.

Great idea for Lackey that would make it easier.

Globe is saying 5 yrs at $ 4 mil per..

[The Ghost of Ned Martin]

Mike LansWho, on 12 October 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

The Red Sox should demand Starlin Castro. When that inevitably fails, they should take Brett Jackson as the consolation prize. Right-hand hitting outfielder. He could be your opening day right-fielder. If that doesn't work, demand enough cash to make shipping Lackey off more palatable.

Shipping Lackey off will be palatable regardless of the compensation received from the Cubs. It will likely end up being cash which can then be spent on producing yet another lame-ass TV show on NESN. Maybe the next show can be a reality show about a baseball team owned by a Ghoul and his trophy wife who spend most of their time licking Kenny Daglish's balls while the team dies of an overdose of fried chicken, beer and video game-playing. Then, in a hilarious plot twist, they can pin the blame on the baseball team's manager's alleged drug abuse and failing marriage.

Should be a hit.

I have never been happier about a Red Sox team missing the playoffs. Most of the players should be shipped out of town as soon as humanly possible. Keep Pedroia. Keep Ellsbury. Keep Papelbon and Bard. Sent the rest packing like the gutless, weak douche bags they are. **** them all.

Any chance Bob Kraft can buy the team? There is a man with class and knows how to run a successful business while treating his employees and fans well.

As opposed to the Liverpool Ghoul and the other two stooges.

**** all three of them and their disingenuous bull shit.

Anni was right all along about that crew. She saw it from the beginning.

[BigSlick]

The Ghost of Ned Martin, on 12 October 2011 - 01:15 PM, said:

Most of the players should be shipped out of town as soon as humanly possible. Keep Pedroia. Keep Ellsbury. Keep Papelbon and Bard. Sent the rest packing like the gutless, weak douche bags they are. **** them all.

I wonder what kind of odds you could have gotten 2 years ago on anyone saying to ship out 21 players because they are douchebags and Papelbon being one of the 4 to keep.

[Kid T]

Hail Cesar, on 12 October 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

If you remember the whole Billy Beane saga, I believe that the Red Sox were going to be giving the A's Youk and Trot Nixon as compensation.

Not true. Nixon was not part of the discussion. Apparently Youkilis (still a minor leaguer and the "Greek God of Walks" at the time) was the prospect they were haggling over. However, there was never any agreement reached as Beane had a change of heart before negotiations were finalized.